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Sunset

  • 22-05-2015 7:18pm
    #1
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,078 CMod ✭✭✭✭




    What a fascinating little game this is! The setup is simple: you're a cleaning lady, hired to clean a penthouse apartment in a city under military occupation. The routine is the same - you arrive in the apartment with a short list of basic tasks to undertake. But every time there a little changes. You start uncovering secrets, and interacting with the apartment owner through notes (you can choose to be flirtatious or neutral).

    It's strange to see a game so sensibly engage with its themes - as well as its critique of the political situation unfolding outside (and inside) the apartment, it's a game about race, sexuality, communication and various other themes that are rarely engaged with in an intelligent, mature manner in games (if, sadly, at all). It's also a wonderful game of details and environmental storytelling - even the mere titles of the books and records you uncover add depth to both the characters and themes the game is interested in exploring.

    Definitely worth checking out! Tis PC, Mac and Linux friendly.


Comments

  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,078 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    So this is disheartening: http://taleoftales.tumblr.com/post/122153044077/and-the-sun-sets
    So now we are free. We don’t have to take advice from anybody anymore. We were wrong. Everybody whom we consulted with on Sunset was wrong.

    We are happy and proud that we have tried to make a “game for gamers.” We really did our best with Sunset, our very best. And we failed. So that’s one thing we never need to do again. Creativity still burns wildly in our hearts but we don’t think we will be making videogames after this. And if we do, definitely not commercial ones.

    Things fail. It's a fact of life. Especially in the commercial sphere. But to see such a brave, progressive and exciting game fail is disheartening if sadly inevitable.

    It didn't fail as a game, though - it is magnificent. It does highlight that despite a game being widely acclaimed and getting plenty of coverage from the enthusiast press (very positive reviews and responses from the likes of Eurogamer, Edge, Rock Paper Shotgun), these smaller, experimental games can still struggle to make an impact, even when they make some concessions to commercial sensibilities.

    It's disappointing that this development team will not be able to continue making games like Sunset, and the hostile commentary that have greeted their blog post are depressing (you don't have to like these sorts of games, but once again many gamers seem to think they shouldn't even exist). But hey, the game is on sale for another few hours on Steam. Cannot recommend it enough.


  • Registered Users Posts: 55,444 ✭✭✭✭Mr E


    Shame, interesting idea.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,944 ✭✭✭✭Links234


    I hadn't even heard of Sunset before the devs called it quits, now it seems to be quite a news item. Read a very interesting piece on it here: www.theastronauts.com/2015/06/what-really-happened-to-tale-of-tales-sunset/


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    Things fail. It's a fact of life. Especially in the commercial sphere. But to see such a brave, progressive and exciting game fail is disheartening if sadly inevitable.
    It's the same with most things though. A film with an excellent involving storyline gets ignored because the turn your brain off summer blockbuster is out. It's always pretty surprising how often people in the films forum say they liked a film even though the story was terrible and they had to just accept the nonsense in front of them and focus entirely on the explosions.

    People want light entertainment, something they can participate in without getting too involved. You don't hear too much Beethoven on 2fm.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,078 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    ScumLord wrote:
    It's the same with most things though. A film with an excellent involving storyline gets ignored because the turn your brain off summer blockbuster is out. It's always pretty surprising how often people in the films forum say they liked a film even though the story was terrible and they had to just accept the nonsense in front of them and focus entirely on the explosions.

    People want light entertainment, something they can participate in without getting too involved. You don't hear too much Beethoven on 2fm.

    Films also have more robust or at least better developed support systems for 'art' and independent titles, to make sure the less commercial works are released and seen. We're still at the infancy with that in terms of games - although Tale of Tales actually benefited from such grants with their early games.
    Links234 wrote: »
    I hadn't even heard of Sunset before the devs called it quits, now it seems to be quite a news item. Read a very interesting piece on it here: www.theastronauts.com/2015/06/what-really-happened-to-tale-of-tales-sunset/

    I don't agree with what he said there I have to admit (I generally don't agree with Adrian's stance on 'certain' issues, although I will happily state he made an excellent game) outside the undoubted technical sluggishness of the game. I don't think that blog really engages with the aspects of the game I found most interesting.

    To counter and why I was more than happy to forgive the crashes I experienced at a certain point in the game, here's the review I wrote up when I finished playing the game (been downvoted to all hell in the last 24 hours :():
    "If we have to go to war, let's fight to re-establish the peace"

    Games are constantly encouraging us to explore spaces. They offer us maps to explore, often with trinkets hidden in their most distant corners. But video game spaces have rarely felt as dynamic and worth exploring as the apartment in Sunset. It is, in a world where many games boast of their world being '31.5% larger than that other game', a relatively small place, a handful of rooms all in all. Yet over Sunset's modest running time it changes in ways both radical and subtle - changes that allow the game's narrative, characters and themes to germinate. It is worth exploring the apartment thoroughly afresh every time you leave the elevator, because it's the hidden details you'll only find if your paying attention that give this extraordinary game its depth. Book covers hint at characters' states of mind, the situation beyond the apartment walls or maybe just offer a neat little gag. Notes carefully placed out of the way allow the game's central relationship to develop, all without a word of dialogue being spoken. Eventually more radical changes fundamentally alter the mood and identity of a place that had become to feel familiar, safe... a home?

    Repetition, too, is deeply ingrained in video game vocabulary, many games proudly demanding players to repeat the same tasks over and over again for typically arbitrary rewards. And repetition is key to Sunset too, but in a way that's not interested in wasting your time, but instead to use routine and passing time to expand the game's scope and depths. Every visit is the same yet different, the routine subtly varying over the course of the game. It quickly becomes apparent that the tasks assigned to Angela are of little concern to anybody involved, the 'excuse' to get this woman into an apartment for an hour a week. You'll be lulled into a comfortable rhythm, only to be legitimately surprised and excited when its disrupted - never in gaming history has a ringing phone felt so revelatory. There's an extended section in the middle of the game where very little happens for quite a while - yet it's possibly the bravest part of the game, that uses time in a way to create a sense of unease, dread, and impatience in the player and protagonist. 'Dead time' it most certainly is not, and a sharp riposte to games that artificially extended their running time for no reason at all.

    Angela is an atypical video game character to say the very least. She is not defined by her race or gender, but they're an integral part to the rich thematic tapestry of Sunset. Her inner monologue, delivered in poetically brief snippets, reveal a character who develops in fascinating ways over the course of one year, her actions subtly guided by the player's decisions within the game. This is a game of binary - orange and blue - choices, but of impressively nuanced morality, aware that the subject matter being addressed here is rarely black & white.

    Sunset is a game about art, about love, about freedom, about literature, about politics. It is, notably, a game about war, but addresses it from a perspective that feels unique within a wider cultural landscape, let alone video games (a medium in many ways that has developed over the years by trivialising war). Actual combat is only ever glimpsed or heard from a distance, yet it is as complete an exploration of the victims, contradictions and consequences of war has ever portrayed in an interactive medium. The characters decry the destruction and the death caused by the military, yet also find themselves conflicted by the 'necessity' of fighting. They fret over the impossibility of peace and freedom without more suffering. They reflect in horror at the consequences of their actions, while celebrating their victories. This is undoubtedly an anti-war game, but also one with a deep understanding that it's more complicated than 'war is bad'. Most importantly, nowhere does the game lecture - it asks us to ask ourselves questions to which there are no easy answers. Even Angela herself is an unreliable narrator, her point of view far from the definitive one. We can empathise without necessarily agreeing.

    If we're talking about 'graphics', Sunset is imperfect - the frame rate is inconsistent, the animation occasionally wonky, and some of the assets uninspiring. Yet aesthetically it is a triumph. The more you play, the more it becomes evident that the hit to performance was a worthy compromise given the quality of the art. The impressionistic reflections, gorgeous shadows and dynamic lighting in the game make for many ravishing visual moments, many of which you will stumble across by chance. The game is presented as a perpetual magic hour, approaching twilight, complemented by the stylised light sources within the game itself (the surrealist neon yellow staircase impresses every time). The artfully applied soundtrack enhances the atmosphere, too - Austin Wintory's economically utilised compositions are fetching, while many of the game's most potent moments come from the times when you put on one of the records you find scattered about the place, and just go exploring.

    Sunset is from an (almost) alternate dimension - one where video games are formally adventurous, thematically provocative, overflowing with nuance and intellect. It is a very rare breed indeed.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,290 ✭✭✭orubiru


    Films also have more robust or at least better developed support systems for 'art' and independent titles, to make sure the less commercial works are released and seen. We're still at the infancy with that in terms of games - although Tale of Tales actually benefited from such grants with their early games.

    I don't agree with what he said there I have to admit (I generally don't agree with Adrian's stance on 'certain' issues, although I will happily state he made an excellent game) outside the undoubted technical sluggishness of the game. I don't think that blog really engages with the aspects of the game I found most interesting.

    To counter and why I was more than happy to forgive the crashes I experienced at a certain point in the game, here's the review I wrote up when I finished playing the game (been downvoted to all hell in the last 24 hours :():

    I have read a little about this game recently and I think it's pretty sad that Tale of Tales decided to stop developing games because the game failed.

    I don't think it should really be viewed as a "failure". They did make a game after all which is more than most people are capable of. You have to give them credit also for making the kind of game that they themselves would like to play.

    They created content for an audience that, in theory, should have been delighted to pick up a game like this. Their intentions were good, but without the market research capabilities of big name developers, a game like this is always a financial risk.

    I liked your review. The "downvoting" is sadly predictable actually as I think there are certain elements of the "gaming community" that were gonna go out of their way to bash this game and to openly celebrate when it "failed".

    Of course, on the other side, there are elements within the gaming culture who have apparently been crying out for a video game EXACTLY like Sunset and when it comes along they are nowhere to be found. This game could have used the support of that section of the gaming community that never stops talking about how there is a need for gaming to "grow up".

    The developers themselves tweeted Anita Sarkeesian "@femfreq It's all you get if you're only interested in the consumer niche. There's a big world out there. We're making #Sunset for you here." back in 2014 when she was complaining about Sony's E3 presentation having zero games with female protagonists. Yet, despite having 100s of thousands of followers and worldwide media exposure it wasn't possible to generate enough interest in the game to make more than a few thousand sales.

    The difference between games and films is that there is actually a significant audience out there for independent movies, for all types of movies really. So when someone produces a quirky movie with a less traditional plot and a less traditional protagonist there is already an audience waiting to pay up to watch that movie.

    Like if a standalone "Marvel's Black Widow" movie was produced to give us an alternative to the, male dominated, Comic Book Hero genre then there would be a lot of people out there who would enthusiastically welcome such a movie.

    In gaming it seems like a lot of the people making noise about wanting games like Sunset are actually just not that interested in playing games. Or maybe they are only interested in playing AAA games.

    It's kind of like someone saying that they are sick of seeing guns and fighting in summer blockbuster movies so you recommend something like "Her" or "Whiplash" and they say they aren't interested in those because they are not summer blockbusters.

    I'd be willing to hold up Ocarina of Time or Super Mario Galaxy as artistic games that were also "blockbusters" but a lot of people would dismiss them for being too cartoony or childish.

    If games are ever going to be taken seriously as an art form then we definitely need to see more "arty" independent games coming through. Unfortunately you need to have more people, like yourself, ready to support these games by buying them, playing them, discussing them, and giving constructive criticism.

    Right now you have the mass consumers buying up the major releases like GTA and The Witcher and Arkham Whatever. Then you have the group that is criticizing those games for not being inclusive enough.

    You have creators of indie games coming out and exposing bias and discrimination within the industry. You have the internet and youtube commentators claiming that gaming needs to grow up and we need to see more diversity. Then you have the group that harasses them into oblivion.

    Where does a game like Sunset fit into the bigger picture? It was never going to be supported by people who perceived it as a game "by SJWs, for SJWs" so it's up to those people who want to see mature, inclusive, artistic games to step up to the plate and put their money where their mouth is. On this occasion it seems they didn't even bother trying.


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,317 ✭✭✭✭super_furry


    Played it about a month back after it was in a Humble Bundle and just found it really dull. It had none of the hooks of something like Gone Home and really tried to just bash you over the head with it's 'this is high-brow art, appreciate it' tone.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,944 ✭✭✭✭Links234


    orubiru wrote: »
    In gaming it seems like a lot of the people making noise about wanting games like Sunset are actually just not that interested in playing games. Or maybe they are only interested in playing AAA games.

    Or could it be that it's just not a very good or interesting game? Because honestly, Sunset looks mindnumbingly boring to me. People calling out for diversity aren't just looking for that one aspect in lieu of all else, they still want a good game and that is something that needs to be kept in mind. In comparison, look at the success of Life is Strange, a game that definitely ticks a lot of boxes in terms of diversity, but is also by most accounts a seriously good game and something I really look forward to playing at some stage.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,078 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    Interesting the thread was bumped just an hour or so before I opened up the new Edge to see a feature on Tale of Tales!

    To me games like Gone Home and Life is Strange are actually pretty accessible games all things considered - while they're quite refreshing for what they do in the gaming realm, their appeal and pleasures are easy sells. Both games tackle subject matter in a reasonably straightforward way, and much of what they address would be considered pretty common in most other mediums (although - Life is Strange Episode 4 spoiler! -
    that euthanasia scene
    was pretty bold whatever medium you're talking about) Sunset is a few steps closer to the experimental - and the rest of Tale of Tales games are straight-up, no question avant garde. What's interesting about Sunset IMO is its formal adventerousness, the language and style it uses to communicate its themes and story. Some people look at it and see a black female protagonist and lump it in with the (mostly imagined) 'SJW agenda', but really any sort of gender commentary is at most a minor, if intriguingly explored, feature in the game. That's not at all what makes Sunset so IMO special or quietly radical. I went into what I found fascinating about it above, so I won't repeat myself.

    I don't blame people for not being interested in games like this - TBH, despite the developers' best intentions at making a more commercially viable game, it's still inherently niche and divisive. There are plenty of art games that leave me cold too - I seriously struggled with Tale of Tale's Benoit l'ete, I must say. But ultimately it's the same way I wouldn't expect a Bela Tarr or Tsai Ming-liang film to break box office records or achieve some sort of crossover success. These guys made games that were IMO interesting precisely because they didn't have an easy hook, that were focused on subverting form and challenging the player. It wasn't about them offering female characters, or 'walking sim' gameplay - it was how they wanted to dive deeper and explore the potential of 'games' in ways that were unusual, ambiguous and often defiantly inaccessible. I firmly believe Sunset is a great game, but I certainly wouldn't begrudge or question somebody who doesn't.

    One of them mentioned in the Edge interview the issue of price of games, which is interesting, because I think its games like theirs that face challenges when going up against commercial trends in gaming at the moment. The race to the bottom in prices - Steam sales or Humble Bundles - IMO has made many players (myself included at times, I fully admit) reluctant to take gambles on more unusual fare. While there will always be some indie triumphs - like Her Story recently, tellingly sold at a tantalizingly low price - it's hard for others to make enough noise in a crowded publishing sphere.

    Again I find myself wondering, as I did in a post above, whether or not gaming can sustain an 'arthouse' in the same way film has - I think games as a whole need to be more widely appreciated. Auriea Harvey & Michaël Samyn made their name - and early funding - in art circles, and hopefully they'll go back there and continue making interesting games - or probably more accurately game-like things :pac: Whether as a whole the current gaming community can sustain experimental niches will be interesting to see - there are certainly some success stories alongside disappointments like Sunset (Simogo, for example). One might even suggest ToT's own The Path was one of the first games to prove that thematically and formally challenging games can get plenty of attention. It's not realistic to expect these sort of games to be breakout hits, or to hit number one in the Steam charts when they have 101 Early Access survival games (or whatever type of title is currently in fashion) to compete with. The question will be whether or not that'll be good enough to sustain a healthy variety of avant-garde and experimental games. Above all, I guess it's just really important for all of us to continue supporting however we can the developers that are doing things we find interesting. Hopefully there'll be enough people doing that to ensure people continue experimenting :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,944 ✭✭✭✭Links234


    You can pick up Sunset for €0.99 (or €0.89 if you're a Humble Monthly subscriber)

    Have to admit I wasn't too interested in the game, but for the price I thought I'd snatch it, I am a little curious about it at least.


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