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B*yl*sports not honouring Euro Golden Boot bets?

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,513 ✭✭✭donalg1


    bet365 did the same with me, I put another bet on during a Russian match that the next goal would be a header, which it was (or so it seemed) however the money never went to my account so I queried and they said the ball brushed his shoulder on the way in. Gutted!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,247 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    According to todays Racing Post bookies will use the official Golden Boot rules in the next few tournaments, possibly starting with the Olympics at the end of this month.


  • Registered Users Posts: 559 ✭✭✭DB74


    According to todays Racing Post bookies will use the official Golden Boot rules in the next few tournaments, possibly starting with the Olympics at the end of this month.

    Makes this market much more unattractive IMO


  • Registered Users Posts: 559 ✭✭✭DB74


    donalg1 wrote: »
    bet365 did the same with me, I put another bet on during a Russian match that the next goal would be a header, which it was (or so it seemed) however the money never went to my account so I queried and they said the ball brushed his shoulder on the way in. Gutted!!

    Which goal was this?


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,247 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    DB74 wrote: »
    Makes this market much more unattractive IMO

    As the Racing Post hints, I think they are just saving themselves the troubles of hundreds of phone calls from clueless disgrunted punters the day after the final.

    Apparently during the last 10 minutes of the match Lawrenson was congratulating the punters who'd backed Torres, which probably caused even more hassle as people take the BBC as gospel.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,053 ✭✭✭batistuta9


    kryogen wrote: »
    Each and every one of them.

    Seriously, its is headwrecking to have to see people repeat this time and time again. There was top scorer market, not a golden boot market.

    There was more then 1 top scorer and as such bets were settled under dead heat rules as they always are.

    The bookies are not doing anything wrong, the terms of the bet are laid out before the bet, they do not go by uefa criteria to have a single top scorer because they dont have to. They dont have a golden boot market.

    Uefa want to have just one person awarded the golden boot, thats up to them. It doesnt change that there was more then one person who finished with the same amount of goals.

    Get over it.

    Or at least stop repeating the same old argument and pretending you don't get the concept

    I'm not pretending i don't get the concept, i do, the bookies use their own rules for it & apply dead heat rules if needed, and i didn't mean to make it sound like i didn't get the concept of it either.

    All i was saying was that for everything else bar the bookies is that the golden boot winner is the top scorer and i think bookies not using that to decide isn't exactly fair, like it's not the PL where there are no other criteria other than goals to decide top scorer & the prize is shared if people are level on goals.

    In group A how did they decide who finished second?
    Did they use the head to head rules used by UEFA and give it to Greece or did they use PL rules and give it to Russia as they had the better GD or did they use their own and 1/2 peoples stake on the team they backed to finish second as both teams had 4 points?
    I'd imagine they use the official UEFA rules for this so why not use them for top scorer as well.


  • Registered Users Posts: 559 ✭✭✭DB74


    THE GOLDEN BOOT IS NOT JUST TOP SCORER just like the winner of the Premiership (or any other League) is not just who gets the most points.

    Goals scored is merely used as the primary criteria to determine who wins the Golden Boot. After that it goes on Assists and after that it goes on least minutes played

    NOT ONE BOOKMAKER took a bet on who would win the Golden Boot, NOT ONE.

    Top Scorer is decided solely on Goals Scored and nothing else. No second or third criteria are used.

    If punters mixed up the UEFA Golden Boot with Top Goalscorer then that's their problem, not the bookies

    You have to know what you are betting on


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,247 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    batistuta9 wrote: »
    I'd imagine they use the official UEFA rules for this so why not use them for top scorer as well.

    I'm guessing it was an attempt to be 'fair' and not use some rather strange criteria which aren't used in any other Top Scorer competitions.

    Let's be honest, if Mandzukic, who would have been a skinner for the bookmakers, had spent less minutes on the pitch than Torres then this debate wouldn't be happening. Torres backers would be thrilled to be getting a 1/6 split.

    And otoh if the bookmakers were using the Golden Boot rules (and Mandzukic won), there'd be an identical thread to this about how people weren't even aware of the tie-break rule, why is it suddenly so different to a standard top scorer market, cheating bookmakers ripping us off on our Spain/Torres bets etc.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,053 ✭✭✭batistuta9


    DB74 wrote: »
    THE GOLDEN BOOT IS NOT JUST TOP SCORER just like the winner of the Premiership (or any other League) is not just who gets the most points.

    Goals scored is merely used as the primary criteria to determine who wins the Golden Boot. After that it goes on Assists and after that it goes on least minutes played

    NOT ONE BOOKMAKER took a bet on who would win the Golden Boot, NOT ONE.

    Top Scorer is decided solely on Goals Scored and nothing else. No second or third criteria are used.

    If punters mixed up the UEFA Golden Boot with Top Goalscorer then that's their problem, not the bookies

    You have to know what you are betting on

    in the PL if teams are level on points they're other factors to decide who finishes higher the same way there was other factors to decide who finished higher in the group stages in the euro's when teams were level on points, do the bookies not use these rules, whatever rules are implied by the competition?

    The golden boot is just a name for the top scorer, a lot of you don't get this fact & has factors to decide who's wins if players score the same amount of goals in the euro's, unlike your top scorer market for the PL where tevez & Berbatov shared it in the 10/11 season.

    top scorer in the PL or the Premier League Golden Boot whatever you want to call it, it's the same thing & maybe other leagues i'm not sure is just decided on who has the most goals, the top score in the euro's & WC's is not. They're (bookies) using rules to decide who's top scorer from a different competition (PL + maybe others) than the one in question

    That's why i gave the example from group A in my last post of Greece & Russia, did they use the GD rule to separate teams or did they use the competition rules - head to head.

    if they can use the competition rules to decide who finished second then why not use competition rules for the top scorer too?

    It is people fault i'd agree if they didn't fully understand what rules were being used but the fact is the bookies are determining the top scorer in these competitions on PL rules not the rules implied by the tournament.
    what would you think if you bet on Greece to finish second and they turned around to you and said we're using GD to separate the teams level on points, your bet is a loser


  • Registered Users Posts: 559 ✭✭✭DB74


    batistuta9 wrote: »
    in the PL if teams are level on points they're other factors to decide who finishes higher the same way there was other factors to decide who finished higher in the group stages in the euro's when teams were level on points, do the bookies not use these rules, whatever rules are implied by the competition?

    The golden boot is just a name for the top scorer, a lot of you don't get this fact & has factors to decide who's wins if players score the same amount of goals in the euro's, unlike your top scorer market for the PL where tevez & Berbatov shared it in the 10/11 season.

    top scorer in the PL or the Premier League Golden Boot whatever you want to call it, it's the same thing & maybe other leagues i'm not sure is just decided on who has the most goals, the top score in the euro's & WC's is not. They're (bookies) using rules to decide who's top scorer from a different competition (PL + maybe others) than the one in question

    That's why i gave the example from group A in my last post of Greece & Russia, did they use the GD rule to separate teams or did they use the competition rules - head to head.

    if they can use the competition rules to decide who finished second then why not use competition rules for the top scorer too?

    You are the one who doesn't get it.

    There is a distinction between Golden Boot and Top Goalscorer, whether you like it or not - they are not exactly the same thing

    If a bookie decided to offer a market on Team To Score The Most Points in the Premiership then, in that particular market, it would have been a dead-heat and they would have to pay out half-stakes on both City AND United because they both scored the same number of points.

    But no bookmaker offered this market. They all offered Premiership Winner and therefore people who backed City won the bet and people who backed United did not.

    It will be similar in the Olympics Medals betting BTW - some bookmakers will offer a market called "Medals Table" in which case if 2 teams are tied on Golds it will come down to Silvers and Bronze medals. But some bookmakers will offer a market called "Most Golds" in which case it will be a dead heat if 2 countries are tied on Gold Medals.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,053 ✭✭✭batistuta9


    I'm guessing it was an attempt to be 'fair' and not use some rather strange criteria which aren't used in any other Top Scorer competitions.

    Let's be honest, if Mandzukic, who would have been a skinner for the bookmakers, had spent less minutes on the pitch than Torres then this debate wouldn't be happening. Torres backers would be thrilled to be getting a 1/6 split.

    And otoh if the bookmakers were using the Golden Boot rules (and Mandzukic won), there'd be an identical thread to this about how people weren't even aware of the tie-break rule, why is it suddenly so different to a standard top scorer market, cheating bookmakers ripping us off on our Spain/Torres bets etc.

    and in an attempt to be "fair" do they use GD to separate teams level on points in the groups which would be familiar to a lot of people with only a small interest in football, maybe just the PL & LOI for example and aren't aware that this rule in used in La Liga & Seria A too (i think)

    for your mandzukic example maybe this is why this didn't already get changed after Muller in WC '10.

    again i'll use the different rules for separating teams on points by H2H rather than GD as most would be used to, do you not think it makes logical sense to follow the rules implied by the competition for deciding outcomes?

    Was looking for the article you mentioned from the Racing Post, is it online or in the actual paper you seen it?


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,247 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    batistuta9 wrote: »
    Was looking for the article you mentioned from the Racing Post, is it online or in the actual paper you seen it?

    They don't seem to have it online (their online site doesn't seem to have any of the actual newspaper content anymore :mad:).

    It is on the back page of todays edition.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,408 ✭✭✭ft9


    No one offered a golden boot market. It was a top scorer market. Who won the golden boot is irrelevant.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,158 ✭✭✭Dearg81


    Apparently during the last 10 minutes of the match Lawrenson was congratulating the punters who'd backed Torres, which probably caused even more hassle as people take the BBC as gospel.

    I was under the impression Lawrenson had backed Torres at 16/1 from listening to his commentary. I would love to have been in the bookies when his smug thatched cottage head strode through the door to collect his winnings :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,053 ✭✭✭batistuta9


    DB74 wrote: »
    If punters mixed up the UEFA Golden Boot with Top Goalscorer then that's their problem, not the bookies

    You have to know what you are betting on

    right i'm happy enough to leave this golden boot/top scorer thing alone, as i'd think you and everyone else is too.

    but something from your last sentence, is there any more bets like the golden boot/top scorer that people should be aware of if not familiar with betting/bokies rules etc. or like the one ArmaniJeanss gave about germany & gomez @ 16/1 & the like being rip offs.

    I remember a manager in a shop one time saying you couldn't do a bet like that - e.g. double on germany & gomez FGS - and had to take the other odds offered but he was the manager & gambled a good bit too so maybe he just knew.
    would the system take a bet like that if the cashier didn't know otherwise?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 25,953 ✭✭✭✭kryogen


    You can bet on a lot more markets these days then you ever could before, and combine more too.

    But each bookie is different


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 42,347 Mod ✭✭✭✭Lord TSC


    batistuta9 wrote: »
    but something from your last sentence, is there any more bets like the golden boot/top scorer that people should be aware of if not familiar with betting/bokies rules etc. or like the one ArmaniJeanss gave about germany & gomez @ 16/1 & the like being rip offs.

    One that caught me back when I started a few weeks back just before the CL finals, and I saw a few people caught out over during the knock out stages, is that there's a difference between "X Team to Qualify/Win" and "X Team to win in 90 minutes", the later seemingly more commonly picked by mistake.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,117 ✭✭✭✭MrJoeSoap


    One that caught me back when I started a few weeks back just before the CL finals, and I saw a few people caught out over during the knock out stages, is that there's a difference between "X Team to Qualify/Win" and "X Team to win in 90 minutes", the later seemingly more commonly picked by mistake.

    You wouldn't believe half the stuff you hear in bookmakers support... It'd nearly warrant a thread of it's own.


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