De Facto Relationships Ireland

FalconXV · 03-02-2013 2:13am

Yeah. It's not ideal but you have to look at alternatives here. Check for clinic times.

blanchlad · 05-02-2013 3:17am

Hi people. I was just going to put out there my situation and see what you think of how likely of getting approved.

So me and my gf are in a long distance relationship.
She is from the states and im an irish citizen.
We met on a plane travelling from budapest to Dublin over 2 and a half years ago.
she was working as an intern in dublin for the summer,anyway we started going out and she had to go back to the states to finish college. we emailed and talked everyday. i eventually moved to canada to be closer to her as i wasnt eligible for a visa to the states. we visited each other about 5 times over the next year back and forth. Now we are looking into the de facto visa because im not eligible for a visa to live in the states. she is trying to find sponsorship in a job here while applying from the states. the chances of this happening are slim but may as well give it a go.

What do you think they likelihood of her getting approved for this would be? we dont have any statements together,but we could show plane tickets and email convos and photos.and also get letters from people to prove it is in fact genuine.

also if the application is submitted is she able to leave the country?? as she has a good job in the states and would just end up using all her savings staying here without a guarantee of the visa being approved

any feedback would be greatly appreciated

FalconXV · 05-02-2013 5:23pm

blanchlad wrote: »

Hi people. I was just going to put out there my situation and see what you think of how likely of getting approved.

So me and my gf are in a long distance relationship.
She is from the states and im an irish citizen.
We met on a plane travelling from budapest to Dublin over 2 and a half years ago.
she was working as an intern in dublin for the summer,anyway we started going out and she had to go back to the states to finish college. we emailed and talked everyday. i eventually moved to canada to be closer to her as i wasnt eligible for a visa to the states. we visited each other about 5 times over the next year back and forth. Now we are looking into the de facto visa because im not eligible for a visa to live in the states. she is trying to find sponsorship in a job here while applying from the states. the chances of this happening are slim but may as well give it a go.

What do you think they likelihood of her getting approved for this would be? we dont have any statements together,but we could show plane tickets and email convos and photos.and also get letters from people to prove it is in fact genuine.

also if the application is submitted is she able to leave the country?? as she has a good job in the states and would just end up using all her savings staying here without a guarantee of the visa being approved

any feedback would be greatly appreciated

You have a case as it is over two years. It costs the price of postage to send in the application. You have to be in the country to apply and when you get approval so you can get the stamp and card. The GNIB don't take your passport but you need to photocopy every page of yours and her passport. GNIB cards if she has had one previously.

Letters from your parents to say that they have met her and get it stamped by a justice of the peace. Letter from her employer here might help too.

Show your latest bank statements that you both have money to support her while she is looking for a job.

Dates are important. Plus a load of patience.

h57xiucj2z946q · 07-02-2013 6:36pm

blanchlad wrote: »

Hi people. I was just going to put out there my situation and see what you think of how likely of getting approved.

So me and my gf are in a long distance relationship.
She is from the states and im an irish citizen.
We met on a plane travelling from budapest to Dublin over 2 and a half years ago.
she was working as an intern in dublin for the summer,anyway we started going out and she had to go back to the states to finish college. we emailed and talked everyday. i eventually moved to canada to be closer to her as i wasnt eligible for a visa to the states. we visited each other about 5 times over the next year back and forth. Now we are looking into the de facto visa because im not eligible for a visa to live in the states. she is trying to find sponsorship in a job here while applying from the states. the chances of this happening are slim but may as well give it a go.

What do you think they likelihood of her getting approved for this would be? we dont have any statements together,but we could show plane tickets and email convos and photos.and also get letters from people to prove it is in fact genuine.

also if the application is submitted is she able to leave the country?? as she has a good job in the states and would just end up using all her savings staying here without a guarantee of the visa being approved

any feedback would be greatly appreciated

My other half is from USA also. Look at my posts here for help (and obviously the other posts on this thread):

http://www.newtotown.ie/visa-work-permit-green-card-issues/2504-de-facto-relationship-29.html#post11224

http://www.newtotown.ie/visa-work-permit-green-card-issues/2504-de-facto-relationship-38.html#post11544

http://www.newtotown.ie/visa-work-permit-green-card-issues/2504-de-facto-relationship-39.html#post11581

You have to be in the country to apply, but your partner is legally allowed to stay in the country until you get a response back from INIS, even if their holiday visit allocation (usually 90 days) expires on their passport.

Dfol · 28-02-2013 12:20pm

Hi all, I've just got off the phone with the inis helpline and they told me that in order to do a defacto relationship the non-eu citizen has to have been living in ireland for two years to qualify.
I'm irish and my girlfriend's argentinian and we've been together for 5 years, none of which we've lived in ireland. I was under the impression that you just needed to provide proof that you've been together for 2 years and not that you're partner has been living in ireland for 2 years. Can someone clarify, as I want to believe the guy at the helpline has got it wrong.

atkin · 28-02-2013 1:52pm

Misinformation in government departments is common .I did see an earlier post where a De Facto relationship was accepted when the partner was living outside Ireland .The Irish citizen in this case lived in Thailand with his partner for 1.5 years.I did send a letter to INIS but never got a reply.This case was 2 years ago and I suspect the rules maybe more strict and its 'make it up as you go along'. You could see if it breaches any European Immigrant Law.

I suggest you contact the Immigrant Council of Ireland or try another offical in INIS.

queenman · 07-04-2013 12:29pm

Hi All
I read all this topic cause im interested about it too, but one question still i have: what will happen after 12 months if de facto relationship "visa" will be granted? Should that person go back to the country when she/he came from or can apply for any other "visa" in Ireland? Or maybe has to apply for "de fact" again with her/his partner again for next 12 months. I hope my question is quite clear, just it doesnt make sense IMO if after being together for extra year immigration's rules will split out the couple/family again.

Thank you

atkin · 07-04-2013 8:40pm

I think you need to apply for the extension at the Garda Immigration.They should advise you when you register after 3 months here.

queenman · 07-04-2013 10:23pm

Its very interesting casue now the average time of waiting for decision is 3-4 months, so if my partner will come for 3 months "no visa needed" to Ireland and if we will apply all needed documentation straight its still no time enough to get a decision before he should fly back (he is taiwanese), ok, he probably would stay here as long as the decision will be made but:
- he needs a return ticket bought before we will fly to me in here (immigration may check it on the arrivals)
- if "visa" will be granted, he may stay 12 months (is possible stay longer?) and then how the Garda Immigration will decide? is any procedure for that situation? how this "extension" may work?
- if "visa" will be rejected he will lost his flight ticket (missed flight casue he was waited for decision), will someone pay for his departure ticket then? of course, no, he/we have to pay again
Next question: can he leave Ireland when our documentations will be processed and come back after "yes" decision will be made? or he has to stay all this period in here and wait for decision?

Thank you

atkin · 08-04-2013 12:51pm

Hi,
They do not check return tickets on arrival but be sure to give your partner a contact number for you.They may call you to check you are in the airport.The 3-4 month wait is another anomaly. You go to the Garda Immigration and explain that you have made an application and are waiting a decision .The Immigrant Council of Ireland can explain further .The rules and attitudes are always changing.The tourist visa is hard to get anyhow and you need to show that your partner has a good reason to return home.Confusing I know !!

CanadaEh · 16-04-2013 12:55pm

Hi there,

I am a Canadian currently living in Dublin with my Irish boyfriend. We've lived together for almost 3 years (2 yrs in Canada and 1 in Ireland.) I'm currently on a work holiday visa and am looking to renew my status as De Facto in Ireland. I have a few questions if anyone can help:

1) My current visa is set to expire in June. Is there a bridging visa that would allow me to keep working in my job while my new application is being processed?

2) What is the cost of application?

3) Can I leave the country (on a holiday - less than 1 month) while my application is being processed? Will they hold onto my passport for the duration of the application or...?

4) How long until I can apply for permanent residency?

Thank you!

LoGiE · 16-04-2013 4:38pm

Hi,

Myself and my other half have been through the process so I hope this post will be helpful to people. I’ve given a brief rundown of the essentials for the application but the list is by no means exhaustive and you should also do your own research.

I'm assuming your are based in Dublin. If not you will need to contact your local emigration officer based in your district HQ

Take a look at the INIS website
http://www.inis.gov.ie/

and Citizens Information
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/
for additional information.

What kind of documentation should I send?

(Application letter)

• Letter from couple requesting a stamp 4 visa.
• Explaining how they met.
• What applicant been doing in Ireland for the last few years.
• Plans should applicant get the Stamp 4 Visa.

(Evidence of a relationship)

• Emails for any times spent apart when applicant was back in home country.
• ESB, UPC, Gas, Insurance Policies Etc. (In both names)
• Tenancy agreements signed by the couple
• E-tickets from visits to and from Ireland/USA.
• Photographs going back over at least two years together.
• A letter from Family member of Irish citizen (In our case my Father)
• Wedding invitations or any documents showing history together.

(Essential Documentation)

• Full copies of both passports. (Every page!)
• Bank Statements. American A/C, Irish Account and our Joint A/C (Showing applicants have money to support themselves)
• Salary slips proving the applicant won’t be burden on the state. (If on student Visa for instance and applying for stamp 3/4)
• Information on health Insurance. VHI Policy etc.
• Letters of recommendation from couples employers (Character References for couple)
• A copy of Degrees/ Any educational information showing skills.

Where do I send my application letter and documentation?
Department of Justice and Law Reform Irish Naturalisation and Immigration
13/14 Burgh Quay
Dublin 2

How much does it cost?
The cost per year is currently €300

If anyone has any questions I’ll try to answer them.

Thanks,
LoGiE

LoGiE · 16-04-2013 4:58pm

Hi,

See notes below.

CanadaEh wrote: »

Hi there,

I am a Canadian currently living in Dublin with my Irish boyfriend. We've lived together for almost 3 years (2 yrs in Canada and 1 in Ireland.) I'm currently on a work holiday visa and am looking to renew my status as De Facto in Ireland. I have a few questions if anyone can help:

1) My current visa is set to expire in June. Is there a bridging visa that would allow me to keep working in my job while my new application is being processed?

Once you've applied you can stay even if your stamp has expired.

2) What is the cost of application?

€300 for Stamp 4

3) Can I leave the country (on a holiday - less than 1 month) while my application is being processed? Will they hold onto my passport for the duration of the application or...?

No they do not hold your passport but I'd contact the INIS regarding holidays

4) How long until I can apply for permanent residency?

Roughly 5 years.
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/irish_citizenship/becoming_an_irish_citizen_through_naturalisation.html

Thank you!

CanadaEh · 17-04-2013 6:31pm

LoGiE wrote: »

Hi,

See notes below.

Thanks for the info! I work for an international hotel company and just wanted to make sure I get as much info as I can.. they're very by the book about these types of employment matter.

I've sent a few emails to INIS and they keep redirecting me / telling me I'm not contacting the right department. The last email said I should call or write a letter to the General Immigration Section. When I call it directs me to email so I'm wondering what kind of response I'll get if I send a letter. It's hard to get exact information from them and everyone I speak to who's gone through the process has a different opinion or experience.

My main concern is them rejecting my application because I've failed to include something or missed some sort of step.

LoGiE · 17-04-2013 6:36pm

Posted with permission from mickadoodle.

mickmadoodle wrote:

Hey Logie,

Maybe u can help.

Ok Gf(non eea) arrived here few weeks ago on tourist visa. She has 6 weeks left on the visa.
We want to apply for the de-facto visa but not sure what the first step is, is it register with GNIB(€300) or just submit paper work to INIS ??
How is she permitted to stay while application being processed ??

cheers

Maurice

[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

mickmadoodle wrote:

Thanks Logie for the quick reply.

We have been together for 4+ years, so that part of it is sorted

My only worry at this stage was which one came first, GNIB or INIS, as have gotten conflicting reports on that.

Thanks again

Copy to board please

Hi,

You can only apply for a Stamp 4 Visa on the basis of De facto relationship if you can prove that you have been together for at least two years. To apply for this Visa you need to submit the documents I listed in my post to the INIS. If she is approved you will both be required to go to the INIS GIB building on Burgh Quay to show your passports. Her passport will be stamped and she will be given a GNIB card.

If you have not been together for two years you may apply for a stamp 3 Visa. This differs from a Stamp 4 in that she will not be able to legally work here. You will again have to make a application to the INIS and include documentation to show that you both have funds to support her. (Please contact the INIS for more information on what documentation they want)

Once you have sent your application and received written notification from the INIS that your application is being processed she will be allowed stay in the country regardless of the date on her passport stamp. However if your application is not successful she must leave within a reasonable time frame.

I recommend you take a look at the two links in my post as they go into greater detail.

Would you mind if I copy this message to the thread so it might benefit other people looking for information? You might also receive other suggestions that I haven't given you.

Regards,

LoGiE

LoGiE · 17-04-2013 7:33pm

CanadaEh wrote: »

Thanks for the info! I work for an international hotel company and just wanted to make sure I get as much info as I can.. they're very by the book about these types of employment matter.

I've sent a few emails to INIS and they keep redirecting me / telling me I'm not contacting the right department. The last email said I should call or write a letter to the General Immigration Section. When I call it directs me to email so I'm wondering what kind of response I'll get if I send a letter. It's hard to get exact information from them and everyone I speak to who's gone through the process has a different opinion or experience.

My main concern is them rejecting my application because I've failed to include something or missed some sort of step.

Hi,

No problem at all. Part of the reason I started to post in this thread was the confusing amount of information out there and the fact that both the INIS and GIB gave me the run around.

A typed letter is the only way to contact them despite what other information you have received. You send the letter, they acknowledge it with a letter of there own with a reference number which you use if you have any queries. The next letter will usually be your decision unless they request additional information. How long it takes depends on how busy they are.

If you include the documentation above you should be fine.

LoGiE

Koko13 · 20-04-2013 1:42am

Hi All,

Me and my Irish boyfriend are going to apply the visa, however he just got a news from work that he may need to move somewhere to work outside Ireland in few months (but not 100% sure). Can I ask what will happen in this case if he work in other place after we applied or granted the visa?

Thanks!!

LoGiE · 25-04-2013 1:54pm

Hi,

I would contact the Irish Naturalisation &
Immigration Service for more information. If you don't have a visa or are on a Stamp3 and will be staying more then 3 months your going to have to apply regardless of whether your partner moves for work.

Regards,
LoGiE

atkin · 27-04-2013 1:38pm

What kind of documentation should I send?

(Application letter)

• Letter from couple requesting a stamp 4 visa.
• Explaining how they met.
• What applicant been doing in Ireland for the last few years.
• Plans should applicant get the Stamp 4 Visa.

(Evidence of a relationship)

• Emails for any times spent apart when applicant was back in home country.
• ESB, UPC, Gas, Insurance Policies Etc. (In both names)
• Tenancy agreements signed by the couple
• E-tickets from visits to and from Ireland/USA.
• Photographs going back over at least two years together.
• A letter from Family member of Irish citizen (In our case my Father)
• Wedding invitations or any documents showing history together.

E mails are no longer considered evidence of a relationship.
The Irish embassy in the Philippines.

LoGiE · 29-04-2013 3:54pm

atkin wrote: »

E mails are no longer considered evidence of a relationship.
The Irish embassy in the Philippines.

Hi atkin,

Are you a representative of the embassy or is this from personal experience? The INIS website does not mention emails specifically and refers only to 'Supporting Documents - Photos etc'

If this has changed and you could provide a website link that would be useful. The point of this thread is help people find the information they need as the agency's involved have a poor track record of providing information.

LoGiE

atkin · 29-04-2013 11:41pm

LoGiE wrote: »

Hi atkin,

Are you a representative of the embassy or is this from personal experience? The INIS website does not mention emails specifically and refers only to 'Supporting Documents - Photos etc'

If this has changed and you could provide a website link that would be useful. The point of this thread is help people find the information they need as the agency's involved have a poor track record of providing information.

LoGiE

Personal experience ,check the Irish embassy website in the Philippines.
The embassies differ you should always check in each country.
The 'Make it up as you go along rule'

Koko13 · 03-05-2013 11:17pm

Hi LoGiE,

Thanks so much for your reply. Can I also ask, I am living with my Irish boyfriend and I am currently holding a student visa. I am quite reliant financially on my boyfriend. Would that be a problem? I am a bit confused as to why some people were granted only a stamp 3 visa. I don't have any joint account or bills with him. I would appreciate any help you can give, thanks so much!

LoGiE · 07-05-2013 11:25am

Hi,

A stamp 3 visa is essentially just permission to remain. This is issued on the basis that INIS are satisfied that you are in a relationship with an Irish Citizen but you cannot work. You MUST be over two years in order to qualify for a a stamp 4 which permits you to work.

After 60 months (5 years) based on your Stamp 3 immigration stamps you can apply for Stamp 3 Long Term Residency (valid for 5 years) or Citizenship.

After 60 months (5 years) based on your Stamp 4 immigration stamps you can apply for Citizenship.

If you are a couple living together I suggest a Joint account in both names for paying bills and all the items I've listed above. Basically if I asked you for documents proving how long you'd been with your boyfriend how would you do it?

LoGiE

LoGiE · 07-05-2013 11:38am

Interesting...

https://www.visas.inis.gov.ie/avats/OnlineHome.aspx

redcliff · 13-05-2013 12:30am

LoGiE wrote: »

Hi,

You MUST be over two years in order to qualify for a a stamp 4 which permits you to work.

LoGiE

Hi LoGiE
Just to clarify above. You have to be in a relationship over two years, I know that, but do you have to be in the country two years (on stamp 3) until you get the stamp 4?

LoGiE wrote: »

Interesting...

https://www.visas.inis.gov.ie/avats/OnlineHome.aspx

Now you can apply online? Typical. Myself and partner sent in our application
3 months ago. We spent ages just looking for a non existant application form and now hey presto, you can apply online :rolleyes:

sj82 · 16-05-2013 3:32pm

Hi there

I'm just looking for some help/ advice too.

My Australian boyfriend is here on a WHV which expires in August. We are trying to go about applying for defacto but its just confusing with all the different information out there. We evetually went to an immigration solictior in dublin yesterday but to be honest they weren't that impressive, I have got better information on this board in the last five minutes that from hour and a half with the solicitor could have been a bad choice on our parts.
Ok ,so the situation is:

my boyfriend is working here(luckily) and has the job as long as his visa allows him too, so how can he go about being able to continue working while we wait for application process on the defacto
Is it the stamp 4 thing we need? and is this in our local garda headquarters? (we live in cork). I think this should be our first step.

We have been together for four years its been a mix of together and apart as I returned to Ireland to finish studies but we should be able to prove two years.

My worry is the financial side, as in showing bank statements.
I have been studying post grad for last two years finishing this year. I have been working part time but paying massive fees(10,000 euro to date so my savings etc are cleaned out. How important is how much money you have in the bank?
we are doing ok like paying rent living cost etc but we don't have much savings.
I do have a permanent teaching job to return to in September under contract and I can show a pay slip ,would this make up for lack of current funds?
Also what does your parent have to say in the letter for evidence of a relationship?

Its quite reassuring to find out there are other people in similar situations who have got visas or who know what to do. Logie whoever you are, thank you for taking the time to help us all out , you are like a little ray of hope.

LoGiE · 20-05-2013 11:50am

Hi,

I'll do my best to answer your questions.

sj82 wrote: »

my boyfriend is working here(luckily) and has the job as long as his visa allows him too, so how can he go about being able to continue working while we wait for application process on the defacto
Is it the stamp 4 thing we need?

He can continue to live in Ireland once you've made your application and received you confirmation letter. As regards to his ability to continue working you should contact the GNIB or your local Garda Síochána District Headquarters Station.

If you both intend to live and work in Ireland long term he will require a stamp 4 visa as the Non-EEA spouse/partner of an Irish citizen. He will need to renew his visa every year. After 5 years he can look for for citizenship.

and is this in our local garda headquarters? (we live in cork). I think this should be our first step.

Yes if your outside Dublin you contact your district headquarters. They will have a GNIB officer for dealing with queries.

We have been together for four years its been a mix of together and apart as I returned to Ireland to finish studies but we should be able to prove two years.

My worry is the financial side, as in showing bank statements.
I have been studying post grad for last two years finishing this year. I have been working part time but paying massive fees(10,000 euro to date so my savings etc are cleaned out. How important is how much money you have in the bank?
we are doing ok like paying rent living cost etc but we don't have much savings.

You need to prove you can support yourselves with the important question being would your partner be a burden on the state. As you both work and pay your rent It appears this is not the case.

I do have a permanent teaching job to return to in September under contract and I can show a pay slip ,would this make up for lack of current funds?

I'd certainly mention it and provide a payslip if you can as it shows you intend to make a life together in Ireland.

Also what does your parent have to say in the letter for evidence of a relationship?

This is essentially a character reference. It should state that they have met your boyfriend and that they believe you both to be in a stable relationship.

Its quite reassuring to find out there are other people in similar situations who have got visas or who know what to do. Logie whoever you are, thank you for taking the time to help us all out , you are like a little ray of hope.

No problem. It's a jumble of information out there but they seem to be getting there act together (Slowly!)

The process can be long and stressful but if your application is honest you wont have a problem. If they feel you haven't given enough information they will ask for more and you just pop it in the post.

Good luck!

LoGiE

Dub87 · 23-05-2013 11:21am

Hey Logie. My girlfriend and I are going to apply for a de facto visa in september as we will be together 2 years. Her visa is up in October but she wants to go home for christmas holidays I am going go over there to join her but on our way back will she have a problem getting back into the COuntry with me. At this time our de facto visa would be pending for 3 months ?

LoGiE · 24-05-2013 11:01am

Hi Dub87,

I have looked at all our correspondences, that being Stamp 3, Stamp 4 and our initial refusal letter and there is no mention of what happens if you leave the country.

It seems unlikely she will would be required to stay in Ireland for the duration of the process (Especially given it can take up to 8 months) but she may need to visit your Local Immigration office to receive a Holiday visa stamp for 30 days which allows travel in and out of Ireland.

Anyway to cut a long story short contact the INIS for information using one of the methods below to get clarification before you book tickets.

To quote the application received notification.

Any further correspondence in relation to you should be addressed to General Immigration Division,Department of Justice and Law Reform, 13/14 Burgh Quay, Dublin 2, and quoting the '69/' (Department of Justice) reference number above.

Or alternatively

You should contact 1890-551-550 while your application is being processed and quote your application Reference number.

LoGiE

perfectblue · 29-05-2013 11:01am

hi all, i just wanted to add to this thread. i submitted my application on 25 April 2013, and received approval for Stamp 4 a couple of days ago. not sure if i'm an anomaly (am American, OH is Irish), but it essentially took a month for us. our application was a large binder with LOTS of pages (which we haven't gotten back yet).

De Facto Relationships Ireland

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