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03-04-2014, 19:07   #2851
Apogee
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I'd imagine they were well aware that the chances of success were minimal, but fair play for giving it a go nonetheless.

[off-topic] The box at 9.32 is an interesting piece of kit for older 36V, mechanical polariser setups.

http://www.titaniumsatellite.com/asc1

Not cheap, but not much of an alternative choice with today's receivers in comparison to receivers of old.

http://www.satshop24.de/satshop24_s/...0!0,,ASC1.html
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03-04-2014, 19:30   #2852
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I'd imagine they were well aware that the chances of success were minimal, but fair play for giving it a go nonetheless.
I'd also imagine they'll be very grateful to Watty for the advise
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03-04-2014, 21:40   #2853
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Spoke to soon.

Can use saorsat in NON FREESAT, and can see the channells in the raydon channel editor list,

But when I save and restart channel editor It just stays there waiting for the system to come backup, and I can see that the humax has restarted.

Anyone have a solution?
Thanks

Sorted by deleting channels on old FEC setting and rescanning on new FEC settings.

Thanks to Delta lima
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04-04-2014, 12:56   #2854
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From the screenshot of the spectrum, it looks as if they did not pick up the specific jamming carrier but rather 4 internet carriers from one spot and another 4 carriers from a different spot..
I seriously doubt any carrier is there purely to "jam". It will be for something.
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04-04-2014, 13:02   #2855
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I seriously doubt any carrier is there purely to "jam". It will be for something.
Would it make a difference to 2RN if those carriers weren't there?
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04-04-2014, 14:22   #2856
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I seriously doubt any carrier is there purely to "jam". It will be for something.
The east Scottish beam had a DVB-S (as opposed to DVB-S2) carrier with a totally blank transport stream (no data). It seems to be very co-incidental that they happen to use the exact same frequency at adjacent target spots, which just happens to prove their targeting skills.
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04-04-2014, 22:15   #2857
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Would it make a difference to 2RN if those carriers weren't there?
I doubt it.

compared with people in Mainland UK putting N.I. Address in their Sky Sub.

In the longer term all the spots will be doing something. We knew the parameters of this satellite pretty much the day that 2RN/RTE NL / RTE proposed publicly they would use it.


(click to article)

This forecast was in 2010. To expect to somehow circumvent physics and have mainland UK coverage was daft. Eutelsat can put whatever they want on spots. It is NOT "jamming". The intention is to sell full capacity of every spot.

There is a principle in satellite usage that once a frequency band and location is allocated it MUST be occupied or a competitor can occupy it. It's not like some terrestrial licences were it can be "bought" and do nothing. Though that has happened in Iceland, Sweden and Ireland and there is usually and expiry date where if a service isn't implemented to a given standard the licence reverts to the regulator.

So they probably have to have every spot active in some fashion. Also how "friendly" would it be if people mistakenly purchased gear in parts of Scotland, Wales and England on edge of Irish Spot and then suddenly it was gone due to more services launching on Scottish and French spots?

So if they have to have a carrier to indicate occupancy on spots with not yet traffic (and there are MANY sorts of telemetry that doesn't show on a satellite meter!) it makes sense to align with Saorsat carrier(s).

Anyway if it's not TV (Telemetry) your satellite meter will only tell you it's a carrier, so how can you know it's doing nothing?
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05-04-2014, 00:43   #2858
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They are not "interfering spots".
Well, they're unwanted (in this case) signal preventing reception of the wanted signal. I don't know what else to call it? The fact that the signal you don't want may be useful to others is not much consolation to you!

I think the point of that German video (if it had a point!) was to show that even a monstrously large dish doesn't help with out of area reception on Ka-Sat. I don't know where that DLR site was, but their HQ is in Cologne. You could probably get 28.2E UK/Irl Ku 'spot' beam there on an 80cm dish no problem, yet a 13m dish has no hope of capturing the Ka Irish spot.
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05-04-2014, 15:05   #2859
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Anyway if it's not TV (Telemetry) your satellite meter will only tell you it's a carrier, so how can you know it's doing nothing?
A satellite meter was not used. The transport stream was "decoded" and found to contain nothing:

http://www.satellites.co.uk/forums/t....153007/page-2

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The same is true on the TBS card ...which _should_ display the modulated content of the carrier frequency ...but although locks ...nothing on board in the TS stream that the TBS card can identify ..
I suppose the term jamming is a bit strong, while jamming is probably illegal in normal terms actually using a licenced frequency to stop overspill is what is going on, which in effect jams people outside of the prime spot. I agree they would like to see all frequencies in use, and it makes sense to use these "un-needed" transmissions for tests or other useful downlinks.

Has anyone noticed a change in power output on Saorsat with the FEC change? With reports of people losing the signal with FEC updated, it suggests the same output power is in use, but with the different FEC it would mean it's harder to pickup, meaning a slightly larger dish is now needed. My sums give a 2dB larger gain needed than before. My sums give 1/2FEC at 11.5Mbps 2/3 FEC at 15Mbps meaning 3 more Mbps now available for RTE1HD etc. What is the data rate available for both terrestrial muxes combined after FEC?
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05-04-2014, 16:13   #2860
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A satellite meter was not used. The transport stream was "decoded" and found to contain nothing:
That assumes a lot!

It could just be something that they thought was MPEG2-TS

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in normal terms actually using a licenced frequency to stop overspill is what is going on
Maybe, or maybe not as that is a huge assumption (see earlier post). They have to "occupy" the spots ANYWAY, even if it isn't something specialised that simply isn't decoding correctly. It's even possible to encode telemetry and have fake empty MPEG2-TS stream.
That can be used to analyse performance.
Even an empty MPEG2-TS can be used to monitor performance. That's very important to parametrise Ka Band in the long term and correlate error rate with cosmic background, solar noise, ice crystal scattering etc as well as different kinds of rain.

I did meet the folks doing Ka-sat several times (when it was on the ground still). I don't unfortunately have a copy of the power point nor remember all the details. At the time the main interest was for 2 way data. We only were interested in Ku for TV due to time scale (if the TV project had happened it would have been well over a year before Ka-Sat launch).
We never bothered meeting the Hylas folk.

Last edited by watty; 05-04-2014 at 16:19.
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05-04-2014, 16:14   #2861
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What is the data rate available for both terrestrial muxes combined after FEC?
24.13 Mbit/s per Mux is the useful bitrate figure in any document I've seen for an FEC of 2/3.
27.14 Mbit/s if an FEC of 3/4 was used.
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12-04-2014, 09:59   #2862
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[QUOTE Has anyone noticed a change in power output on Saorsat with the FEC change? With reports of people losing the signal with FEC updated, it suggests the same output power is in use, but with the different FEC it would mean it's harder to pickup, meaning a slightly larger dish is now needed. /QUOTE]

Everything here OK with 80 cm dish on County Antrim coast. Quality reading always varies with weather conditions but I haven't noticed any appreciable differences in recent weeks.
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12-04-2014, 19:26   #2863
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It will only be in heavy rain that the FEC change is an issue for people with too small a dish.
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19-04-2014, 15:54   #2864
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Can anyone recommend a good TV

Between 24/32Inch
LED
1080p
Less than €250
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19-04-2014, 19:45   #2865
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you mean LED backlit. There are no real LED TVS under maybe €10,000. Some small AMOLED (under 6").


24" is tiny for Widescreen. Unless you are sitting in a shoebox, even 32" is quite small. Most TVs under 37" are only so called HD ready, there are some 32" TVs that are really 1080 native lines though. Very few 24".

This isn't the AV forum but concerned with Satellite Reception and this thread Saorsat in particular. Look at Toshiba, LG, Samsung, Sony in your local shops. It's a bad thing to buy online especially if it fails inside the 2 years (SOGA).

Last edited by watty; 19-04-2014 at 19:49.
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