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Issue with Soccer Forum

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12357…11

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    #122
    5starpool
    Subscribers Posts: 32,846 ✭✭✭✭5starpool


    Hiding behind off topic is a low one for this issue. There are thousands of other posts that are equally if not more off topic in the last few months even.


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    #123
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 75,285 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    OK, coming back to the OP. The normal process would be to contact the local mods to seek clarification of the rule or perhaps suggest changes to the way it is interpreted/applied. After that the CMod(s) can be approached.

    As far as I know neither of these were done and the OP came straight to Feedback and made a post in the Soccer forum essentially complaining about the moddimg and providing a link to this thread

    I would add here that if the mods/Cmods had been approached it is something that would probably have then been discussed amongst the mods. Now I am definitely of the view that "in-jokes" have no place in match threads where they can only serve to confuse and potentially irritate posters who are not "in" on the joke (typically opposing fans and neutrals). I may have a different view on club-specific Superthreads where there is less likelihood of posters taking offence. Having said that any conclusion I would ultimately have come to would have taken into account comments from the local mods and we would have come to a consensus between us - this thread, of course, ends up raising the temperatures amongst some regulars which in turn tends to help entrench views

    Unfortunately though this is Soccer, so starting a thread here also encourages a lot of people to get other issues off their chest. Those issues should in my view be left to the annual Feedback thread that is run in the forum in the close season


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    #124
    Knex*
    Registered Users Posts: 22,477 ✭✭✭✭Knex*


    The mods had been approached on the issue, more or less, by PM previously, and nothing came from it. I myself had a conversation with Bounty Hunter, and this was passed onto all the SF mods, as per my request.

    I don't think the creation of this forum was as unjustified as you make out. Also, with the contribution that has already been given in this so far, why hide, once again, behind charter and brush an issue under the carper for another day. Please, can we just deal with it now?

    I had a post detailing exactly how the Panda stuff came to light, and how in particular they reached the match thread. Well and good they were stopped as it did get excessive. Still, for the life of me, can't fathom as to why they sap thing was banned.

    Also, banning gifs containing a certain animal is really something that can't be done, in all honesty. We all know this, surely? I mean, I don't even know where to start with regards to how absurd the notion is.


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    #125
    djPSB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,299 ✭✭✭djPSB


    dfx- wrote: »
    I see no reason for a strict no gifs policy. I say that as someone who promoted that rule to be introduced as a poster in feedback threads, though I do see the advantage in having the rule that some can be allowed and others not, like those mentioned in the rule.

    Again however, I don't see anyone disciplined under the gif rule this weekend, so its relevance is not immediate.

    Can you again explain how panda jokes - in all forms - are on-topic in a Liverpool FC Superthread?

    But sure if you go into the Manchester United thread, last night there was a load of Bubba Watson images.

    Pandas are just as relevant as Bubba Watson in a soccer forum if you ask me.

    Not every thread is going to 100% on topic all of the time.


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    #126
    glued
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,446 ✭✭✭glued


    Beastly I think it's fairly obvious from the response in this thread that now is the time for a feedback thread. There is a lot of problems at the minute and letting them fester just to satisfy the status quo through the annual feedback thread would be wholly unproductive.

    I think the soccer forum's feedback mechanism is too rigid and stubborn. Feedback should occur as problems arise and problems have been mounting up and frustration is starting to show.


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    #127
    Vanolder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,241 ✭✭✭Vanolder


    5starpool wrote: »
    People being carded for calling their own players names who have done something stupid or missed a chance, etc, is my biggest pet peeve about the SF this season, but I'll be raising that in the soccer feedback thread whenever it gets going.

    It's beyond ridiculous and another instance of applying a rule to the totally wrong situation.

    This happens?? Seriously?? I only dip in and out of here thankfully, and post on a far more liberal forum, as I wouldn't be able for that- It's football and that's part of the game- But I guess I don't have to clean the mess afterwards so it's easy comment but still, seems excessive..


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    #128
    Luckycharms_74
    Registered Users Posts: 6,609 ✭✭✭Luckycharms_74


    I'm glad Lloyd started this. Some of the modding has been ridiculous tbh in the SF & the inconsistencies are laughable. Cards issued left right and centre. One poster gets carded for saying something and another poster doesn't for saying the exact same thing. I'm not gonna quote the post just to try and get another fellow poster a card.
    I'm not gonna say any more otherwise ill get perma banned


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    #129
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users Posts: 36,125 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    dfx- wrote: »
    I see no reason for a strict no gifs policy. I say that as someone who promoted that rule to be introduced as a poster in feedback threads, though I do see the advantage in having the rule that some can be allowed and others not, like those mentioned in the rule.

    Again however, I don't see anyone disciplined under the gif rule this weekend, so its relevance is not immediate.

    Can you again explain how panda jokes - in all forms - are on-topic in a Liverpool FC Superthread?
    dfx- wrote: »
    The issue may be immediate, but it is nothing to do with gifs in particular. To paraphrase: 'Same rule applies as the matchthread' - the rule applied in the matchthread was not about gifs as I've described previously.

    Unless you can explain why panda jokes are on-topic in the Liverpool FC Superthread, there may be no issue with that warning. You can post any gif you like that is on-topic.

    Here's what I am gleaning from your responses:

    - there is a section in the charter that covers the mod team for ruling out of bounds off topic .gifs;
    - this will be decided on an adhoc basis and from time to time some picture or gif posting will be adjudged as not allowed (though other similar usage is okay);
    - when a mod or mods have made that adhoc decision they will post an on thread warning;
    - failure to comply (i.e. to continue posting images) or any questioning of that warning will result in warnings, etc;
    - in such a case, the warnings, etc will be technically for back seat modding or refusing to follow a moderators instructions, not the gif rule;

    Is that correct?


  • Options
    #130
    gafferino
    Registered Users Posts: 4,724 ✭✭✭gafferino


    rarnes1 wrote: »
    I think I'm even more confused after reading dfx's replies.

    Can we post gifs if we choose to in the superthread?

    It's something I might do every so often so I'd like to know if I'll get sanctioned for it.

    If .gifs get banned that will cut my posting in half :o
    I find a good gif paints 10,000 words.


  • Options
    #131
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users Posts: 36,125 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    Beasty wrote: »
    OK, coming back to the OP. The normal process would be to contact the local mods to seek clarification of the rule or perhaps suggest changes to the way it is interpreted/applied. After that the CMod(s) can be approached.

    As far as I know neither of these were done and the OP came straight to Feedback and made a post in the Soccer forum essentially complaining about the moddimg and providing a link to this thread

    I would add here that if the mods/Cmods had been approached it is something that would probably have then been discussed amongst the mods. Now I am definitely of the view that "in-jokes" have no place in match threads where they can only serve to confuse and potentially irritate posters who are not "in" on the joke (typically opposing fans and neutrals). I may have a different view on club-specific Superthreads where there is less likelihood of posters taking offence. Having said that any conclusion I would ultimately have come to would have taken into account comments from the local mods and we would have come to a consensus between us - this thread, of course, ends up raising the temperatures amongst some regulars which in turn tends to help entrench views

    Unfortunately though this is Soccer, so starting a thread here also encourages a lot of people to get other issues off their chest. Those issues should in my view be left to the annual Feedback thread that is run in the forum in the close season

    As per the OP which you claim to have read, I confirm that I did not personally contact the mod team as I was aware of an effort to contact them on the issue that was unsuccessful. I have also noted already that the issue (or the surrounds of this issue, technically speaking as per dfx's and T4TF's posts) was pressing in nature and worth sorting out now in advance of the end of year feedback thread where it will not have to be then rehashed.

    I think it is also well worth suggesting that GavRedKing and Bounty Hunter's interactions on this thread have not served to inflame anything imo, they have been open and helpful and it is appreciated.


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    #132
    GavRedKing
    Registered Users Posts: 53,262 ✭✭✭✭GavRedKing


    glued wrote: »
    Beastly I think it's fairly obvious from the response in this thread that now is the time for a feedback thread. There is a lot of problems at the minute and letting them fester just to satisfy the status quo through the annual feedback thread would be wholly unproductive.

    I think the soccer forum's feedback mechanism is too rigid and stubborn. Feedback should occur as problems arise and problems have been mounting up and frustration is starting to show.

    Given how busy the season still has the potetinal to be for posters and mods alike, no Soccer Forum feedback thread will appear until after the UCL Final at the earliest and all things considered thats actually a very early feedback thread.

    If people have issues, save them somewhere and bring them up when it shows up.

    Just a quick heads up, the feedback thread has and never will be, a place to complain about an individual mod, if you havea problem with the modding thats ok, give us feedback to work with, posts like I think Mod X is useless or the Modding is s**t isnt constructive and as such will have no place on any feedback thread.

    we're about 6 weeks out from the end of the season and the SF Feedback thread will follow very shortly after it, maybe even on the Sunday/Monday after the UCL final.


  • Options
    #133
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users Posts: 36,125 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    Luckycharms_74 wrote: »
    I'm glad Lloyd started this. Some of the modding has been ridiculous tbh in the SF & the inconsistencies are laughable. Cards issued left right and centre. One poster gets carded for saying something and another poster doesn't for saying the exact same thing. I'm not gonna quote the post just to try and get another fellow poster a card.
    I'm not gonna say any more otherwise ill get perma banned

    Well this thread was not opened to generally discuss soccer moderation, but I think the reaction indicates that such a discussion is required ASAP.


  • Options
    #134
    RasTa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,116 ✭✭✭✭RasTa


    Why is it only Liverpool fans who seem to be unhappy with the mods at the moment?

    I know certain United fans are unhappy with certain Liverpool fans coming into superthreads to gloat but on most occasions the mods sort it out.

    I'm guessing you were spamming pandas?

    Mods have being great this season, kudos.


  • Options
    #135
    Knex*
    Registered Users Posts: 22,477 ✭✭✭✭Knex*


    RasTa wrote: »
    Why is it only Liverpool fans who seem to be unhappy with the mods at the moment?

    I know certain United fans are unhappy with certain Liverpool fans coming into superthreads to gloat but on most occasions the mods sort it out.

    I'm guessing you were spamming pandas?

    Mods have being great this season, kudos.

    This interests plenty more than just Liverpool fans on this forum, and there are United supporters already contributing constructively to the thread.

    Perhaps rather than guessing, you could read the thread and contribute in a helpful manner, as did they?


  • Options
    #136
    LiamoSail
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,294 ✭✭✭LiamoSail


    Panda gifs and wrestling references are no different. I don't understand either, nor do I find them relevant, interesting or funny.

    More than that though, its a joke/theme shared between groups who spend hours every week chatting to each other about football, and part of that is the forming of such jokes & references. Themes like that are productive towards the aim of boards.ie as a community, as oppose to a sterile discussion forum. Seems to me like throwing ban hammer at such references is counterproductive to the aims of the self styled boards.ie community.

    This reply really bothers me. A poster complains that cards were given for the posting of panda gifs in a super thread, and the mod flat out denies that it happened:
    Thanx 4 The Fish wrote: »
    And still the thing I said stands. NOBODY was infracted for posting panda pics in the superthread. Not sure what you have to be confused about here Lloyd.

    The basis of the retort is that nobody was infracted because nobody posted them. If someone had posted them, they would have been infracted. So how is that reply in any way constructive to either this feedback thread or to improving the forum ? It strikes very much as someone trying to win an argument on a technicality rather than engage in constructive discussion to improve the forum or directly address the issue.

    There was an issue with the locking of a thread recently which again, I found entirely out of order. A thread, which hadn't been violating the charter was locked without so much as a explanation as to why. When a similar thread was started, it was again locked with a mod stating they didn't know why the original was locked, but they were locking this one. My issue is that it's just ignorant locking a thread without explanation, and creates unnecessary animosity

    The mod that locked the second thread then did absolutely eff all to ascertain why the original was locked. What are we then expected to do? PM every forum mod to check who locked it and why? Why did the second mod not just question it on the mod forum? Do the mods want 7/8 posters PMing them all asking who locked whatever thread? Seems daft to me, and as with the above, puts the mods in the role of Police rather than posters contributing to the building and bettering of the forum


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    #137
    Will I Amnt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,222 ✭✭✭✭Will I Amnt


    RasTa wrote: »
    Why is it only Liverpool fans who seem to be unhappy with the mods at the moment?

    I know certain United fans are unhappy with certain Liverpool fans coming into superthreads to gloat but on most occasions the mods sort it out.

    I'm guessing you were spamming pandas?

    Mods have being great this season, kudos.

    I have a problem with the moderation this season more than any other season and I'm saying that as someone who has just about reached the end of the season without so much as a yellow card for the first time.


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    #138
    Agueroooo
    Site Banned Posts: 4,925 ✭✭✭Agueroooo


    Whatever happen to enforcing the 'acting the dick' rule?

    Cause from where I'm sitting this all boils down to reaction and joke to one single poster with a four letter username.

    Everyone else here debating, infracting (both issuing and receiving) and trying to sort out the mess of someone going around ACTING THE DICK!

    maybe sort that out first and the rest might take care of itself.


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    #139
    Will I Amnt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,222 ✭✭✭✭Will I Amnt


    Agueroooo wrote: »
    Whatever happen to enforcing the 'acting the dick' rule?

    Cause from where I'm sitting this all boils down to reaction and joke to one single poster with a four letter username.

    Everyone else here debating, infracting (both issuing and receiving) and trying to sort out the mess of someone going around ACTING THE DICK!

    maybe sort that out first and the rest might take care of itself.

    Not really fair to single out one person to blame for what a huge number of posters took part in. The ignore function is a handy tool.
    I could give you a handful of names of Liverpool fans that do the very same in match threads and are getting away with it all season.
    The people making such a big deal of it are as much to blame for me.


  • Options
    #140
    Knex*
    Registered Users Posts: 22,477 ✭✭✭✭Knex*


    Fair enough we can look for certain posters to be prosecuted for their actions, but at the same time, that doesn't absolve us from our own. Breaking the charter here in a response to those posters, and this resulting in an infraction is fair. We all know those rules and tbf, they can't change or it would be chaos.

    I agree with Will on that, as I say most would.

    Sure, a little leeway at times should be given though. That said, at the same time, it is annoying to see the initial perpetrator walk away scott free for what is a deliberate post seeking a rise. This happens time and again, and it comes back to mods not being able to moderate on grounds of posting history, or even as Aguerooo says, enforce the "don't be a dick" rule.


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    #141
    Agueroooo
    Site Banned Posts: 4,925 ✭✭✭Agueroooo


    Will I Amnt wrote: »
    Not really fair to single out one person to blame for what a huge number of posters took part in. The ignore function is a handy tool.
    I could give you a handful of names of Liverpool fans that do the very same in match threads and are getting away with it all season.
    The people making such a big deal of it are as much to blame for me.


    Fair enough but that same said poster is the common denominator in many of them, not all, but a lot.


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    #142
    OwaynOTT
    Registered Users Posts: 10,533 ✭✭✭✭OwaynOTT


    Will I Amnt wrote: »
    Not really fair to single out one person to blame for what a huge number of posters took part in. The ignore function is a handy tool.
    I could give you a handful of names of Liverpool fans that do the very same in match threads and are getting away with it all season.
    The people making such a big deal of it are as much to blame for me.

    If I'm correct in who I think he is talking about, that particular poster is going out of his way to get his digs in. Went as far as insulting a Liverpool poster who never gets involved in any of the mad shenanigans - an innocent,a gent - in an unrelated forum.
    All super threads have a few delinquents but some go too far and using the ignore function is not a solution but only a band-aid and solves nothing.
    The pandas I believe we're used as a way of dealing with that one poster without descending into the usual bickering or other more official methods which we're going nowhere.
    The soccer forum would be boring without some strife but some go too far.


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    #143
    Will I Amnt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,222 ✭✭✭✭Will I Amnt


    OwaynOTT wrote: »
    If I'm correct in who I think he is talking about, that particular poster is going out of his way to get his digs in. Went as far as insulting a Liverpool poster who never gets involved in any of the mad shenanigans - an innocent,a gent - in an unrelated forum.
    All super threads have a few delinquents but some go too far and using the ignore function is not a solution but only a band-aid and solves nothing.
    The pandas I believe we're used as a way of dealing with that one poster without descending into the usual bickering or other more official methods which we're going nowhere.
    The soccer forum would be boring without some strife but some go too far.

    What happens in another forum is irrelevant tbh. You can't apply soccer forum rules to incidents elsewhere. If he was breaking a sitewide rule that's a different story, I'm not aware of the incident.

    The ignore function works very well actually. To be honest, there are many in the soccer forum that love to be outraged and won't use the ignore function for fear of missing out on the drama, there's a certain masochistic element to it.


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    #144
    Will I Amnt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,222 ✭✭✭✭Will I Amnt


    Agueroooo wrote: »
    Fair enough but that same said poster is the common denominator in many of them, not all, but a lot.

    Seriously, if someone is annoying me that much they just go on ignore. Especially if they are getting me worked up to the point where I'm in danger of getting punished in reply.


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    #145
    Agueroooo
    Site Banned Posts: 4,925 ✭✭✭Agueroooo


    Will I Amnt wrote: »
    Seriously, if someone is annoying me that much they just go on ignore. Especially if they are getting me worked up to the point where I'm in danger of getting punished in reply.

    Again you're right but I don't us/like the ignore button as at the end of the day we are grown men and women (hi Mars)

    Its just the 'dont act the dick' rule should be enforced (imo) before any other poster has to resort to using the ignore button for someone who blatantly 'acting the dick'

    gone off the main topic a bit.


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    #146
    Knex*
    Registered Users Posts: 22,477 ✭✭✭✭Knex*


    Will I Amnt wrote: »
    Seriously, if someone is annoying me that much they just go on ignore. Especially if they are getting me worked up to the point where I'm in danger of getting punished in reply.

    I don't use the ignore function, because I don't see the point. Nobody is going to annoy me enough to get on it, either.

    With regards to your point about not using it so you can feel outraged, its the opposite for me. I don't use as I rarely, if ever, feel outraged.

    I laugh at posts such as BNMCs far more than I would get frustrated by them. A lot of my retorts to his stuff I would consider humours, if a little condescending at times, but to be fair, his stuff deserves that.

    You need an out at times anyway, you can't be expected to bottle it up. But obviously there are lines that shouldn't be crossed.

    Still though, the forum would benefit from clamping down on obvious trolls and for everyone to see that they aren't get away with snide remarks and a tonne of posts that are borderline infraction worthy, but not quite enough to get the punishment. Back to poster history thing again here.

    I really think that's what we need to assess most.


  • Options
    #147
    Will I Amnt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,222 ✭✭✭✭Will I Amnt


    Knex. wrote: »
    I don't use the ignore function, because I don't see the point. Nobody is going to annoy me enough to get on it, either.

    With regards to your point about not using it so you can feel outraged, its the opposite for me. I don't use as I rarely, if ever, feel outraged.

    I laugh at posts such as BNMCs far more than I would get frustrated by them. A lot of my retorts to his stuff I would consider humours, if a little condescending at times, but to be fair, his stuff deserves that.

    You need an out at times anyway, you can't be expected to bottle it up. But obviously there are lines that shouldn't be crossed.

    Still though, the forum would benefit from clamping down on obvious trolls and for everyone to see that they aren't get away with snide remarks and a tonne of posts that are borderline infraction worthy, but not quite enough to get the punishment. Back to poster history thing again here.

    I really think that's what we need to assess most.

    Well that's you but believe me, there are people here that look to be offended at the slightest thing.

    I could give you at least 3 names of Liverpool posters that behave in the exact same manner in match threads involving United as people here are complaining about.
    It's turning into a bit of a witch hunt against one poster which seems a bit unfair really, even if he is far worse than the picture being painted here.


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    #148
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users Posts: 36,125 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    Here's what I am gleaning from your responses:

    - there is a section in the charter that covers the mod team for ruling out of bounds off topic .gifs;
    - this will be decided on an adhoc basis and from time to time some picture or gif posting will be adjudged as not allowed (though other similar usage is okay);
    - when a mod or mods have made that adhoc decision they will post an on thread warning;
    - failure to comply (i.e. to continue posting images) or any questioning of that warning will result in warnings, etc;
    - in such a case, the warnings, etc will be technically for back seat modding or refusing to follow a moderators instructions, not the gif rule;

    Is that correct?

    Just as a reminder, this is the crux of the issue for me and I would appreciate a response from dfx or whoever else has time. Cheers


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    #149
    OwaynOTT
    Registered Users Posts: 10,533 ✭✭✭✭OwaynOTT


    not being allowed to call oneself a sap is the issue for me and I appreciate Lloyd that it's not in line with your original post.
    The Pandas in the superthread is another worry.


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    #150
    Sacksian
    Registered Users Posts: 1,895 ✭✭✭Sacksian


    I read the Soccer forum daily. I don't post there and don't have access but, despite what a lot of the posters seem to think, it seems to be a really well-moderated forum (especially given the personalities involved).

    As a non-partisan reader, it's really entertaining to watch the ebbs and flows of each superthread during the season - and from season to season - as the various clubs rise and fall.

    This year, it's the Manchester United superthread's turn to endure what Liverpool's superthread has had for the past few seasons (and Arsenal are next, I'd imagine): bitter feuds between the optimists and the arch-pessimists over just how awful various players, managers and administrators are and all of it fuelled by healthy doses of hearsay, conjecture and prejudice. In other words, good old-fashioned football debates.

    Right now, given their history and the last few seasons (and even the prelude to this one), I can't imagine there's any feeling better than being a Liverpool fan.

    If I had been a Liverpool fan discussing my team with fellow supporters this past week, I can imagine I would have been beyond delirious. Humour (often surreal humour) is an inextricable part of football culture. As such, and in the context and culture of internet discussion (i.e. animal memes, aimated GIFS, etc), I cannot think of anything more on-topic to a Liverpool superthread than Pandas. It's fans getting giddy with fellow supporters in their own thread.

    Generally, the soccer forum mods are excellent. This was a mistake. No big deal. Undo it and move on.


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    #151
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users Posts: 36,125 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    Great post Sacksian. I agree that the forum is well modded overall.

    I would find it acceptable for:

    - TRTF to confirm that the warning from last night does not mean panda gifs (or whatever images people find humorous) are out of bounds within the superthread;
    - with the usual caveat that those images cannot be NSFW or constitute abuse of a poster or player in such a way that it contravenes those sections of the charter;

    And we can move on problem solved.


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