My problem with indies

Generic Dreadhead · 17-11-2014 5:17pm

richymcdermott wrote: »

I was more impressed with dust an elysian tale being made by one dude that the actual game itself.

It was grand , somehow felt I was playing a game for furries people from deviant art at times but I think it was cool

:pac::pac::pac::pac::pac:

100x Yes

Same here, tbh the gameplay wore thin after about 2 hours but I played on for the story.

Big Knox · 17-11-2014 5:23pm

DarkJager wrote: »

I'm in total agreement with you OP, I just don't understand the whole love affair people seem to have with these kind of games. Maybe it's just cool to hate on AAA titles these days and champion these poor excuses for entertainment as being something new and exciting.

When games like Spelunky or The binding of Isaac can get straight faced 9/10 scores something is very wrong. These games are not enjoyable at all on a base level. People will come here and say they "have amazing depth" but they don't. They are horribly bland, and utterly devoid of any enjoyment. I often wonder have the people who praise these games forgotten what genuinely good gameplay feels like. When I play a game I want to be entertained and immersed in it. I want a decent story, interesting mechanics and the all around package. Indies cannot offer any of these.

There's so much wrong with this post it's hard to find a starting point. I genuinely feel sorry for people who have this opinion but thankfully you're in a very very small minority. I just can't understand in any way how you can deem a massive percentage of games bad simply because they have been published by an independent developer or because they don't have millions behind it so it is labelled as "AAA".

And I'm sorry but there's a reason why The Binding of Issac: Rebirth has a userscore of 9.0 on metacritic and 95% of steam reviews are positive and it's because it is a fantastic game. Give me Papers Please, Amnesia, Path of Exile, Journey, Limbo, Stanley Parable, Gone Home etc. anyday over the never ending stream of Call of Duty and Assassins Creeds we get year after year!

Mr E · 17-11-2014 5:35pm

How I feel about this thread:

Independent games are the best thing about gaming at the moment.

drumswan · 17-11-2014 5:45pm

Cormac... wrote: »

Same here, tbh the gameplay wore thin after about 2 hours but I played on for the story.

Depends what you want from games really. I enjoyed games like this and on the Amiga but now I have machines capable of playing Total War, Civilization V, Battlefield, Crusader Kings, Forza, Planetside 2, The Last of Us, Eve, The Sims, Fallout 3, WoW, Skyrim, Diablo, GTA V etc., I dont see the draw in modernised versions of platformers.

Same as that Papers, Please - probably would have been all over it in 1991 and I can see the attraction for people who are into games history, trivia as their primary hobby etc (and can appreciate slick 'passport stamping mechanics', heh) but frankly cant see myself giving up the limited time I have for the aforementioned games to ever play it. Same as I wouldnt be interested in playing Candy Crush Saga on a tablet or whatever, im sure fans of it have compelling arguments why I should be playing it too, but it simply doesnt appeal.

Generic Dreadhead · 17-11-2014 5:52pm

drumswan wrote: »

Depends what you want from games really. I enjoyed games like this and on the Amiga but now I have machines capable of playing Total War, Civilization V, Battlefield, Crusader Kings, Forza, Planetside 2, The Last of Us, Eve, The Sims, Fallout 3, WoW, Skyrim, Diablo, GTA V etc., I dont see the draw in modernised versions of platformers.

Same as that Papers, Please - probably would have been all over it in 1991 and I can see the attraction for people who are into games history, trivia as their primary hobby etc (and can appreciate slick 'passport stamping mechanics', heh) but frankly cant see myself giving up the limited time I have for the aforementioned games to ever play it. Same as I wouldnt be interested in playing Candy Crush Saga on a tablet or whatever, im sure fans of it have compelling arguments why I should be playing it too, but it simply doesnt appeal.

That read to me as AAA Graphics and true 3D or GTFO.
I'm not as big a fan of the more conceptual indie stuff though i appreciate what it is doing.
But Platformers? Well you're missing out on some critically acclaimed stiff like Super Mario Bros Wii U, Battleblock Theater, Rayman legends or origins.
Also platformers are much more console controller friendly than KB/M

Also most of the games you've listed are real 40+ hour titles.
I'm finding one of the benefits of indie games these days is they can have pretty immersive worlds that you can experience and finish within 10 hours

drumswan · 17-11-2014 6:04pm

Cormac... wrote: »

That read to me as AAA Graphics and true 3D or GTFO.
I'm not as big a fan of the more conceptual indie stuff though i appreciate what it is doing.
But Platformers? Well you're missing out on some critically acclaimed stiff like Super Mario Bros Wii U, Battleblock Theater, Rayman legends or origins.
Also platformers are much more console controller friendly than KB/M

Also most of the games you've listed are real 40+ hour titles.
I'm finding one of the benefits of indie games these days is they can have pretty immersive worlds that you can experience and finish within 10 hours

Whats wrong with AAA graphics and 3D? Personally Im not interested in platform games, same as other people are not interested in strategy games or FPS games. Someone posting a video of a cartoon character carrying an eggplant up and down ladders for an hour as a reason why I should be playing indie games is gas.

We are approaching a stage of gaming with VR and MMO technology when the gamer can literally live inside another world - total immersion. In the face of that, Its funny that someone would see stylised versions of the classics of my childhood as the best thing that is happening in gaming. Interesting, cool, really attractive to the hardcore gaming nerd maybe, but not that interesting to others.

Potatoeman · 17-11-2014 6:06pm

I think many are over rated and over priced. The first thing I check now is play lenght and if they are randomised.

Most might be worth a look in the steam sale but the likes of the Stanley Parable or Brothers are way too short for 15 bucks. I enjoyed FTL but spending two hours and being screwed over by a few bad random events gets old.

Retr0gamer · 17-11-2014 6:10pm

drumswan wrote: »

We are approaching a stage of gaming with VR and MMO technology when the gamer can literally live inside another world - total immersion.

All that progres in tech would be fine if the games weren't suffering. A lot of triple A games are streamlined simplified and hollow in comparison to older games. Indie games are where you get most of the depth and innovation these days.

richymcdermott · 17-11-2014 6:26pm

Keep vr away from me

K.O.Kiki · 17-11-2014 6:36pm

If you don't like Cave Story, you don't like video games.

drumswan · 17-11-2014 6:55pm

Retr0gamer wrote: »

All that progres in tech would be fine if the games weren't suffering. A lot of triple A games are streamlined simplified and hollow in comparison to older games. Indie games are where you get most of the depth and innovation these days.

If you say so. Most indie games like like rehashes of retro stuff Ive seen before.

drumswan · 17-11-2014 7:01pm

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

If you don't like Cave Story, you don't like video games.

Its as likely that someone who is a fan of that isnt a fan of Football Manager or Euro Truck Simulator or FIFA or Anno 2070 or Railroad Tycoon or Masters Of Orion or Call Of Duty. What is it with 2D sidescrollers that people seem to think they are the epitome of pure gaming?

sweetie · 17-11-2014 7:05pm

drumswan wrote:

Its as likely that someone who is a fan of that isnt a fan of Football Manager or Euro Truck Simulator or FIFA or Anno 2070 or Railroad Tycoon or Masters Of Orion or Call Of Duty. What is it with 2D sidescrollers that people seem to think they are the epitome of pure gaming?

I guess its that most of us grew up on them?

johnny_ultimate · 17-11-2014 7:08pm

drumswan wrote: »

Same as that Papers, Please - probably would have been all over it in 1991 and I can see the attraction for people who are into games history, trivia as their primary hobby etc

Not sure how you came to this unusual conclusion. Can you expand on it? What is it about the game that makes it attractive for gaming trivia fans?

drumswan · 17-11-2014 7:24pm

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Not sure how you came to this unusual conclusion. Can you expand on it? What is it about the game that makes it attractive for gaming trivia fans?

Probably phrased that poorly. I can see the attraction to gaming purists, fans of retro, people who are interested in game design and mechanics, how they relate and compare to games of old, interested in the obscura of how they have developed over time and interested in discussing that kind of thing with like minded gamers on the internet. I guess that contributes to the 'depth' some people seem to see in these games, while to the outsider they look like fairly mundane platformers/shmups/puzzlers.

Grumpypants · 17-11-2014 7:31pm

This thread title should be changed to the thread of wild generalizations.

Like every section of the industry you can't pigeon hole it. Some indie devs are doing cool interesting things, others are shoveling out garbage wrapped up as "early access".

Some big publishers are happy to re wrap last years big title and sell it again, but others are certainly innovating in terms of gameplay and story as well as pushing the new technology, new game engines, new online services.

Writing off either end of the market just cuts yourself out of enjoying great games. I've had just as much fun in Papers Please, Kerbal or the long dark as I had in Far Cry 3, Black flag, Battlefield or Pro Evo.

Each are entertaining, engaging, and innovative in their own way.

Generic Dreadhead · 17-11-2014 7:35pm

drumswan wrote: »

Probably phrased that poorly. I can see the attraction to gaming purists, fans of retro, people who are interested in game design and mechanics, how they relate and compare to games of old, interested in the obscura of how they have developed over time and interested in discussing that kind of thing with like minded gamers on the internet. I guess that contributes to the 'depth' some people seem to see in these games, while to the outsider they look like fairly mundane platformers/shmups/puzzlers.

Ah c'mere now you're just being dismissive of everything that's not a Sim, Strategy title or FPS, and this is coming from someone who plays a lot of those 3 genres of games. It's different strokes for different folks.
Taking the Sims 3 or 4 as an example, it's akin to me saying "Why would you bother playing with a modern day tomogatchi?"
You're just being unnecessarily dismissive of entire genres that aren't to your taste.
I thought you were making a (misguided in my opinion) point about platformers in particular being a thing of nostalgia and a very stagnant genre.
Now i just think it's "I don't play platformers, so why does anyone anywhere play them or like them?"

Grumpypants wrote: »

This thread title should be changed to the thread of wild generalizations.

+1 :pac:

kunst nugget · 17-11-2014 7:49pm

Cormac... wrote: »

Taking the Sims 3 or 4 as an example, it's akin to me saying "Why would you bother playing with a modern day tomogatchi?"
You're just being unnecessarily dismissive of entire genres that aren't to your taste.

I'd rather get my ma's name tattooed on my penis than play Sims but I wouldn't think other people are fooling themselves into thinking they're enjoying if that's what you're into. Each to their own and all that.

drumswan · 17-11-2014 8:02pm

I guess people play games for different reasons.

Looking back at the games I used to play when I was a kid, I realise they werent the same as the sort of games that people are talking up here. I played games for a sense of immersion and escapism, that was my 'depth'. I wanted to feel like I was the Emperor of Byzantium (Civ) or a Jet Pilot (Ace II) or a Formula 1 driver (F1 GP) or a Football Manager (Football Manager) or head of the XCOM program (Enemy Unknown) or the Muad D'ib on Dune (Dune II) or a pirate space trader (Frontier) or a pro golfer (Leaderboard) or GOD! (Populous).

Playing Chuckie Egg or Maniac Mansion didnt attract me nearly as much as there was no immersion and no suspension of disbelief involved. It felt to me like it was playing the game for the games sake and that was it. I didnt want to climb ladders and jump on enemies no matter how much skill was involved. The few indies Ive played on PS4 feel like that too.

I bought Kerbal Space Program and got right into it because it felt like those games of old.

johnny_ultimate · 17-11-2014 8:37pm

drumswan wrote: »

Probably phrased that poorly. I can see the attraction to gaming purists, fans of retro, people who are interested in game design and mechanics, how they relate and compare to games of old, interested in the obscura of how they have developed over time and interested in discussing that kind of thing with like minded gamers on the internet. I guess that contributes to the 'depth' some people seem to see in these games, while to the outsider they look like fairly mundane platformers/shmups/puzzlers.

But Papers Please - and indeed many of the other games mentioned in this thread, so as not to dwell on just this one game - do not fit into those genres or game types. I don't even know if Papers Please could be put into any genre TBH! That's what's so great about it IMO - it's progressive and inventive and looks forward instead of back. It's why I wouldn't think it fair to lump it when 2D platformers or shooters. If it looks like it's just another retro homage, then I would recommend a closer look because that couldn't be further from reality

mayordenis · 17-11-2014 10:13pm

Here look, anyone who has played Mount Your Friends will admit that it is the finest game ever created

Gandalph · 17-11-2014 11:55pm

Dear god I thought I was the only one who didn't like indies, hurrah to our minority! I do give them a chance every now and again and there is sometimes a diamond among the rough, but seriously, most of them are garbage. I thought that Binding of Isaac was quite literally the sh1ttest game I ever did play. Even the rare ones I find good can only hold my attention for about 3-4 hours max. I'm trying desperately hard to like them, but I just can't.

mayordenis · 18-11-2014 12:06am

Gandalph wrote: »

I'm trying desperately hard to like them, but I just can't.

I'm not trying at all, over the last 5 or so years off the top of my head, Super Meat Boy, Pixeljunk monsters, bittrip runner, N+, flower, Hotline Miami, Papers please, to the moon, pushblocks, awesomenauts, fez, PB winter bottom, braid, I'm sure there are dozens that I am completely forgetting.

Picked up a humble bundle the other day with a little skate platformed called OlliOlli if its like anything its a little like canabalt, but its fantastic.

Rogue Legacy is another great little game actually, stupidly hard, but fun.

Timmyctc · 18-11-2014 12:10am

This is sort of an aside but if anyone hasn't played "This war of mine". Do it. Do it immediately. Very strong contender for GoTY for me. And guess what ITS AN ORIGINAL INDIE GAME :pac:

Warning: It will make you cry yourself to sleep.

richymcdermott · 18-11-2014 3:04pm

I like to add dustforce into indie games that are simply outstanding, Just figured out how to use the controller on pc and wow this game is amazing. the soundtrack is sooooo good

murphyebass · 18-11-2014 3:28pm

Anyone dismissing the Indie scene at the moment is really missing out.

Like AAA titles there games that arent good lets be honest but some of the great ones are truely great.

I for one am delighted to see the innovation and depth that a lot of these developers show.

Dont get me wrong I do like AAA titles. Im currently knee deep in Destiny but I definately wouldnt be dismissing Indies!!

I always look forward to seeing what PS plus throws at me every month. Currently playing through Steamworld Dig for example which is great fun!

calex71 · 21-11-2014 5:39pm

Thomas was alone is out today for Xbox One, looks pretty good from what i've seen of it on twitch. Certainly the music is excellent.

Mickeroo · 21-11-2014 5:43pm

calex71 wrote: »

Thomas was alone is out today for Xbox One, looks pretty good from what i've seen of it on twitch. Certainly the music is excellent.

Have it on steam, loved it. Pretty funny and the story was pretty decent too.

COYVB · 21-11-2014 6:56pm

Thomas Was Alone was absolutely brilliant

C14N · 21-11-2014 7:15pm

I kind of see what OP is saying, although I still think it's unfair to tar all indie games with the same brush like this. I think the main point being made is that many of the most popular games aren't especially innovative or creative. Honestly, I get a bit tired of 2D platformers, 8/16 bit graphics and games with "roguelike elements" myself and I'm starting to feel like these are becoming tired tropes on the indie scene. It's not that these things are inherently bad (indeed, Braid is one of my favourites and its a 2D, 16 bit platformer), it's just that these days seeing an indie game that looks like one of those is about as exciting as seeing a AAA game with shooting.

At the same time though, there are piles of indie games that do not conform to any of the above and they're often excellent, at least the ones I've played. You get games like The Stanley Parable, Paper's Please or Flower and it's so creative that you have to wonder how they came up with it.

My problem with indies

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