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Poisoning land

  • 18-03-2010 11:11am
    #1
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    Now that that the lambs are appearing out in the fields again, so are the poisoned lamb carcasses. A lot of people assume poisoning is illegal. AFAIK it is legal to poison vermin, but under certain conditions.
    Does anyone know exactly what the rules are these days in regard to staking, covering, warning notices etc.


Comments

  • #2
    johngalway
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,271 ✭✭✭✭johngalway


    As far as my thinking goes, it's illegal to use poison on foxes, or use a meat based poison on birds. Vermin, which I'd consider rats and mice can be legally poisoned.

    I'm interested in how this thread will develop for my own information.


  • #3
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    johngalway wrote: »
    As far as my thinking goes, it's illegal to use poison on foxes, or use a meat based poison on birds. Vermin, which I'd consider rats and mice can be legally poisoned.

    I'm interested in how this thread will develop for my own information.
    I think foxes and crows are considered to be vermin, from the farmers point of view.


  • #4
    Poll Dubh
    Registered Users Posts: 1,145 ✭✭✭Poll Dubh


    These should be of use to you:

    Proctection of Animals (Amendment) Act 1965 - Section 14 - Notices regarding the laying of poison.

    and

    Declaration under Regulation 3(1)(a) of the European Communities (Wildlife Act 1976) Amendment Regulations 1986 (s.i. no. 254 of 1986)
    (poisoning of wild birds)


    As far as I'm aware it is still allowed to use poisoned meat baits for foxes which is the reason that our re-introduced birds of prey are dropping out of the skies.


  • #5
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    Poll Dubh wrote: »
    which is the reason that our re-introduced birds of prey are dropping out of the skies.
    Yes I am a bit concerned for the Red Kites in the area. The carcasses are laid out in the open. I don't know what the point of staking would be; putting under cover would be better. They don't seem to be using the "poison laid" signs anymore. Could it be that these guys are getting worried about their image? Nobody wants to be the local pariah. At the same time, they think anything that would eat a dead lamb on their land might also eat a weak one and therefore deserves to die.

    That second document is only concerned with birds, maybe there is some other document listing mammals.


  • #6
    johngalway
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,271 ✭✭✭✭johngalway


    Poll Dubh wrote: »
    As far as I'm aware it is still allowed to use poisoned meat baits for foxes

    My local Garda didn't seem to think so in a conversation we had, oh must be last year or late the year before. I must ask him again when I see him.


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  • #7
    Birdnuts
    Registered Users Posts: 9,621 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    recedite wrote: »
    Now that that the lambs are appearing out in the fields again, so are the poisoned lamb carcasses. A lot of people assume poisoning is illegal. AFAIK it is legal to poison vermin, but under certain conditions.
    Does anyone know exactly what the rules are these days in regard to staking, covering, warning notices etc.

    It is now illegal to leave dead carcasses on ones land under the Fallen Animals Act(brought in after the BSE crisis) so farmers who insist on using this primitive, needless and indiscriminate form of vermin control are already in breech of the law. On that basis alone i would inform the gardai if you are aware of individuals who are engaging in this reckless practice. Secondly they are also in breech of the law if they do not put up warning signs on adjacent public roadways/paths etc. if they have laid poison on their land. They must also inform the local gardai in this case.

    PS:Your situation sounds quiet bad - Where roughly do you live?? - generally sheep farmers in my part of Kildare seem to thankfully these days use more sensible and safer ways to protect their flocks via proper housing, electric fencing, the services of local gun clubs etc.


  • #8
    stevoman
    Registered Users Posts: 3,041 ✭✭✭stevoman


    I remember when i was a lad a farmer out the road had what looked like a tom tom pole standing in the middle of a field. Everytime we passed during winter and springer there was always 4-5 dead foxes hanging from it. I think they used to put open uop the bellys and put poison in it.


    Has anyone else ever seen anything like this in years back?


  • #9
    Half-cocked
    Registered Users Posts: 4,319 ✭✭✭Half-cocked


    recedite wrote: »
    They don't seem to be using the "poison laid" signs anymore. Could it be that these guys are getting worried about their image?

    And then there are those who put up 'Poison Laid' signs when there is none, to deter people from allowing dogs off their leashes.


  • #10
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    Birdnuts wrote: »
    It is now illegal to leave dead carcasses on ones land under the Fallen Animals Act.
    I suppose it could be argued that its not just a dead carcasse, it's now a meat based poison. I'm in Co. Wicklow BTW.


  • #11
    johngalway
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,271 ✭✭✭✭johngalway


    Half-cocked wrote: »
    to deter people from allowing dogs off their leashes.

    Are you not supposed to have you dog on a leash?


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  • #12
    Half-cocked
    Registered Users Posts: 4,319 ✭✭✭Half-cocked


    johngalway wrote: »
    Are you not supposed to have you dog on a leash?

    You are, and many dog owners completely disregard this. If they think Fido might eat poisoned meat, the leash gets clipped on immedietly! It can also stop poachers with gundogs;)


  • #13
    Birdnuts
    Registered Users Posts: 9,621 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    recedite wrote: »
    I suppose it could be argued that its not just a dead carcasse, it's now a meat based poison. I'm in Co. Wicklow BTW.

    It doesn't matter - It still violates the act, if these types insist on using such methods the poison should be laid under cover in such a way that birds can't get accsess to it.


    PS: The Red Kite re-introduction project in Wicklow has already lost a number of birds to this type of illegal activity and I would suggest that if you know of landowners who are recklessly putting these birds at risk you should contact your local Wildlife ranger . They will visit the farmer in question and will inform them firmly of the law. Since the majority of sheep farmers are now in REPS the ranger will also point out to them that leaving out uncovered poisoned carcasses violates the terms of thier REPS plan and the Dept of Agriculture will be informed if the problem persists. Nothing concentrates the mind like a threat to ones pocket. This is the best way of dealing with this problem that continues to represent the biggest threat to endangered birds of prey in this country - your complaint will also be handled in strictist confidence so you don't have to worry about the farmer finding out who was behind the complaint:)


  • #14
    Birdnuts
    Registered Users Posts: 9,621 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    This thread was sadly prophetic given todays news - the most sickening thing about all this is that these cowboys continue to be subsidized by the Irish and EU taxpayer without any consequences despite engaging in criminal behaviour that threatens some of our rarest birds of prey:(:mad:


  • #15
    LostCovey
    Registered Users Posts: 1,717 ✭✭✭LostCovey


    Birdnuts wrote: »
    This thread was sadly prophetic given todays news - the most sickening thing about all this is that these cowboys continue to be subsidized by the Irish and EU taxpayer without any consequences despite engaging in criminal behaviour that threatens some of our rarest birds of prey:(:mad:

    Some off the wall crazy denials coming from the farming organisations, who do they think they are codding.

    Looks like our agricultural heroes are going to succeed in making some of these species extinct TWICE in a century.

    And still draw their REPS dole.

    It could make one a tad cynical.

    LostCovey


  • #16
    LostCovey
    Registered Users Posts: 1,717 ✭✭✭LostCovey


    stevoman wrote: »
    I remember when i was a lad a farmer out the road had what looked like a tom tom pole standing in the middle of a field. Everytime we passed during winter and springer there was always 4-5 dead foxes hanging from it. I think they used to put open uop the bellys and put poison in it.


    Has anyone else ever seen anything like this in years back?

    Nice one Stevoman. Have the moderators on this forum any other illegal raptor poisoning tips from their childhood to offer?

    LostCovey


  • #17
    Birdnuts
    Registered Users Posts: 9,621 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0329/1224267276974.html

    I wonder when the GP will get the finger out over this issue if at all:rolleyes:


  • #18
    E39MSport
    Registered Users Posts: 3,730 ✭✭✭E39MSport


    Birdnuts wrote: »
    www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0329/1224267276974.html

    I wonder when the GP will get the finger out over this issue if at all:rolleyes:

    Me too. They had an opportunity (albeit a sad one) during their get together over the weekend after the news on the latest killings.


  • #19
    boneless
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,487 ✭✭✭boneless


    LostCovey wrote: »
    Some off the wall crazy denials coming from the farming organisations, who do they think they are codding.

    Looks like our agricultural heroes are going to succeed in making some of these species extinct TWICE in a century.

    And still draw their REPS dole.

    It could make one a tad cynical.

    LostCovey

    First off, not every farmer is engaged in this type of activity. As far as I am aware the major farming organisations have condemned it. Secondly. REPS is not a "dole", it is granted under stringent conditions which have to be adhered to, under environment and heritage headings.

    I will let the post stand but ask posters to moderate their sentiments, how ever much they feel about subjects.


  • #20
    Birdnuts
    Registered Users Posts: 9,621 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    boneless wrote: »
    REPS is not a "dole", it is granted under stringent conditions which have to be adhered to, under environment and heritage headings.

    .

    Fair point but since all the evidence points to the problem emanating from a small number of flock owners and the fact that most sheep farmers are now in REPS, it does suggest a problem that needs to be urgently tackled to safeguards endangered birds of prey, the reputation of Ireland as a quality green food producer and to safeguard both Irish and EU taxpayers monies.


  • #21
    Renee Stocky Historian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ Renee Stocky Historian


    This thread is drifting from the point but...

    You'd want to update yourself on REPS. Most sheep farmers are not now in REPS. It's too long a topic and too far from this or any Nature thread to go into it here.


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  • #22
    Birdnuts
    Registered Users Posts: 9,621 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    Renee Stocky Historian wrote: »
    This thread is drifting from the point but...

    You'd want to update yourself on REPS. Most sheep farmers are not now in REPS. It's too long a topic and too far from this or any Nature thread to go into it here.

    As far as I am aware when the CAP goes in 2013 nearly all farm payments will be based on rural environment/development initiatives:)


  • #23
    boneless
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,487 ✭✭✭boneless


    REPS is off limits in this thread. Any drifting off the point and it gets locked.


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