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Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

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Comments

  • Administrators Posts: 53,127 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    As much as I'd like to see the Ulster guys get a chance I can't say I agree with any player coming out and questioning the selection policies in the media. That's the start of a slippery slope IMO.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,143 ✭✭✭Benny Cake


    I think it shows disatisfaction with the squad selections and alludes to Kidney being more favourable to Munster players.

    It also shows a major lack of cop-on from Best, had ROG come out with something similar he would have received abuse from all angles...


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,815 ✭✭✭✭emmet02


    I imagine that the question that was asked of Best was pointed towards the Munster v Ulster match. I.e POM vs Henry, DOC vs Tuohy and Earls vs Cave.

    I doubt he'd step outside the camp with such a wide reaching statement otherwise.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,889 ✭✭✭tolosenc


    Yeah, would like to see context behind that quote. As said above, when it is ROG who complains about selections (well, his non selection) we all lose the plot...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,318 ✭✭✭Fishooks12


    I'd like to see a link to the whole quote


    Doesn't sound like something Best would say at all tbh


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  • Registered Users Posts: 24,815 ✭✭✭✭emmet02


    See here http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=78029322&postcount=55
    Yesterday's Sunday times so behind a pay wall.

    Certainly looks like he was asked directly about certain match ups to me


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,947 ✭✭✭✭Neil3030


    "If someone tells me that they're offended, I always respond with, 'well I'm still waiting to hear your point'"

    - Christopher Hitchens

    ROG does not have a point when he complains about not being selected.
    However Best would have a point were he to complain about Ulster players not being selected.

    That's the key for me. I will await the quote in full, but were it transpire that he was indeed complaining that Ulster players are being over-looked at international level, he has a nailed on point and someone needs to say it.


  • Hosted Moderators Posts: 7,807 ✭✭✭fitz


    tolosenc wrote: »
    Yeah, would like to see context behind that quote. As said above, when it is ROG who complains about selections (well, his non selection) we all lose the plot...

    And there in lies the difference. Best isn't complaining about his own situation. I've said it before, the selection lunacy isn't just going to frustrate the players involved. It's bound to make others in the squad question what's going on.

    Edit: just saw Neil's post above. Fully agree...


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,123 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    Regarding the Best quote it is correct. He does go on to say that maybe because Munster were playing in the knock out HEC games it stood more to them.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 502 ✭✭✭dougieruggie


    I think Kidney's got to go now. 2 years of poor results, crazy selection policies and a number of players speaking out against him (off the top of my head: O'Gara,O'Callaghan,Heaslip,Touhy,Best) 4 of those players are the most senior members of the squad and they have derided Kidney's selection policies (ROG,Heaslip,Touhy,Best) or his general manner (O'Callaghan). Shane Horgan was also less than complimentary to him in his interview on Radio 1. Dennis Hickie was said to have flat out refused to play for Ireland under Kidney. Was it O'Callaghan that said that ROG rolls his eyes during Kidney's team talks?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,592 ✭✭✭GerM


    Dennis Hickie was said to have flat out refused to play for Ireland under Kidney.

    I doubt that.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,963 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    GerM wrote: »
    I doubt that.

    Hickie retired while EOS was still coach.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,872 ✭✭✭yosser hughes


    See attachment for Best interview.Apologies for the picture quality.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 502 ✭✭✭dougieruggie


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    Hickie retired while EOS was still coach.

    Sorry meant to say Leinster.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,963 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Sorry meant to say Leinster.

    Odd how he played for Leinster 18 times that season so.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,318 ✭✭✭Fishooks12


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    Odd how he played for Leinster 18 times that season so.


    :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 502 ✭✭✭dougieruggie


    Where did I say he didn't play? I just said he was meant to have flat out refused to play for Kidney. The fact that he ended up falling into line is irrelevant.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,318 ✭✭✭Fishooks12


    Where did I say he didn't play? I just said he was meant to have flat out refused to play for Kidney. The fact that he ended up falling into line is irrelevant.

    Where's the source for this quote by the way?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 502 ✭✭✭dougieruggie


    Fishooks12 wrote: »
    Where's the source for this quote by the way?

    Sorry I was wrong it wasn't Hickie it was actually Brian O'Driscoll. From Knox's interview in the IT
    Knox has launched another withering attack on Munster boss Declan Kidney.

    Kidney is set to quit the Heineken Cup finalists this summer to take over as the new Ireland boss and Knox savaged the Cork native’s appointment to the position in an interview which appeared in an Irish broadsheet on Tuesday morning.

    Just hours after that article surfaced, Knox was interviewed on Newstalk radio to explain his views further.

    Indeed, the Australian, who quit Leinster to return home earlier this year, lashed out at Kidney for the manner in which he left the same province in 2005.

    Kidney explained at the time that he was leaving Leinster for 'family reasons' but Knox felt that that was a lamentable excuse.

    “He wasn’t in Australia, he was two hours down the road," he argued. "He wasn’t in Australia or New Zealand. I reckon he’d get there [Cork] quicker than paramedics!

    ”It’s two hours away [Cork from Dublin]. What sort of reason is that? Let’s be serious about it.”

    Knox also claimed that Ireland and Leinster captain Brian O’Driscoll became so disillusioned during Kidney’s spell in Donnybrook that the centre was ready to move overseas.

    “I hate to bring Brian into it, but when I arrived here Brian said he was going to leave Leinster because he hadn’t learned anything the whole year under Declan Kidney, who, by the way, left halfway through the season,” he claimed.


    ”Three years later he’s [O’Driscoll] endorsing it [Kidney’s appointment]. I understand that because he’s going to have to play under that coach. But let’s not forget what he said three years ago.”

    Knox continued: “He [O’Driscoll] can’t retire, can he? He can’t say ‘I’m not going to play’. What I’m trying to say is let’s not forget three years ago, when he was coaching Leinster and he left halfway through the year.”

    Knox then attacked Munster boss Kidney for a perceived misuse of former All Blacks winger Doug Howlett, who joined the province earlier in the year.

    “I reckon I’ve counted Doug Howlett touching the ball - and I’m not counting running back inside the quarter and kicking the ball up the field, or going back in counter attack - about ten or twenty times this season,” he stated.

    ”I cannot remember him touching the ball in a set play that’s gone through the backs like we use with Luke Fitzgerald and Rob Kearney and Shane Horgan. I think he’s scored two tries, and they’ve both been from turnover balls.

    ”This guy is probably one of the best finishers in the history of the game. He’s probably being paid 4/500,000 dollars. Are you getting value out of him?

    ”Yeah, you’re in the Heineken Cup and he scored a try at a crucial time. But let’s look at how he scored that try, by chasing a kick. I’m just saying that a player like that, if he was playing for Leinster, he would have scored 20 to 30 tries this season.”

    Knox then turned his attention to Munster’s fly-half, Ronan O’Gara, a player he believes often struggles in high-pressure situations.

    ”It’s not coincidental that he plays well when you’ve got 80,000 people on your back,” he said.

    ”But I would say 40 percent of the time that he’s unable to do it in a real pressure situation. Like the World Cup.

    ”Everyone was saying before the World Cup Ronan O’Gara is in the same bracket as Daniel Carter, who’s the best player in the world. Well, in the World Cup we saw how far off the ball that was.”

    Knox claimed, though, that O'Gara and many of his fellow Ireland internationals had been severely restricted by the game plan that was forced upon them by former head coach Eddie O'Sullivan during the World Cup.

    ”I didn’t see any evolvement in their play. It was exactly the same thing,” he argued.

    ”It was the forwards trying to go as far as you can and then try to give the ball to Gordon D’Arcy or Brian O’Driscoll. They just played the same way. And I think teams worked that out.

    ”You had to be aggressive with their forward pack, stop their go-forward. Then you just man-mark O’Driscoll and D’Arcy.

    ”D’Arcy’s not going to pass the ball too much because he’s been instructed to run into a brick wall and poor Brian O’Driscoll’s on his own, supposed to create miracles, which he did against Argentina. I think Ireland would have lost that game 40-0 if Brian O’Driscoll didn’t play.

    ”But I think they needed someone to look at the game and use a bit more decoy on these plays, use a few plays. But they just did nothing....

    ”I wasn’t in the dressing room but I could tell by the way Gordon played. I don’t think he released a ball in the whole World Cup. I don’t think he released a ball in the 6 Nations that I’ve been here for.

    ”He was just running, and successfully 50 percent of the time. When it got to the World Cup I didn’t see him make a break. I didn’t see him pass the ball too much so I’m assuming he was instructed as such.”


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,930 ✭✭✭duckysauce


    sour grapes from knox , if you have family problems who is someone else to question them , life can be a ****, bring back cooder :eek:


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,375 ✭✭✭padser


    Posted in anther thread. Comments from Rory Best (talking about the exlusion of Henry,Marshall,Gilroy,Touhy):
    Those guys are playing some of the best rugby of their careers and haven't got the recognition they deserve.But we can sit and complain about Munster players getting the nod or ask why they win those tight calls.

    What does everyone make of that?

    I think people are making a lot out of nothing here. The final line to me suggests he is saying there is a reason Munster guys win tight calls (because Munster win games other teams would lose).


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,883 ✭✭✭shuffol


    padser wrote: »
    I think people are making a lot out of nothing here. The final line to me suggests he is saying there is a reason Munster guys win tight calls (because Munster win games other teams would lose).

    Which is fair enough but even that argument carries little weight these days.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,318 ✭✭✭Fishooks12


    Sorry I was wrong it wasn't Hickie it was actually Brian O'Driscoll. From Knox's interview in the IT

    So what you're originally claiming was a direct quote from Hickie has now turned into some bull**** hearsay from a clearly sour Knox in relation to something BOD allegedly said ?

    Pinch of salt will be taken in future......


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,387 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    Kidneys time at Leinster was fairly disasterous. He showed loyalty to players who were out of form and set out a negative gameplan for them to play with.

    Remember, this is when BOD was at his very best, and Kidney wanted us to play percentage rugby.

    Madness.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,318 ✭✭✭Fishooks12


    Clegg wrote: »
    Kidneys time at Leinster was fairly disasterous. He showed loyalty to players who were out of form and set out a negative gameplan for them to play with.

    Remember, this is when BOD was at his very best, and Kidney wanted us to play percentage rugby.

    Madness.

    Somethings never change! :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,387 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    Fishooks12 wrote: »
    Somethings never change! :D
    Hes followed the same strategy for his entire managerial career and it was successful for him at Munster. But his reign at Leinster was disappointing and his term at Ireland is definitely heading the same way.

    Deccie is a decent coach if you want to play 10 man rugby. But hes clueless when he needs to play an attacking game. He couldnt develop a style suitable for Leinster and so far he has been woeful in developing a sound strategy for Ireland.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,456 ✭✭✭Cpt_Blackbeard


    Not really sure where to put this, but Quinnie has another great article in the Times today. He talks about player's salarys and its great to have some actually input on their earnings. The dig at soccer players is great too.

    The full article can be found here, but I'll put an excerpt below.
    In Ireland, none of the provinces cover costs from year to year. Player salaries, staff salaries, travel costs, rental of facilities – they all cost more money than the provinces are able to bring in. All four of them lose money for the IRFU, who make it back through the international game.

    People assume that there’s lots of money in the game because it’s a professional sport but every cent somehow finds a home quickly enough.

    At a player’s level, there’s a living to be made and careers are short. Say if you’re a non-international player in the English Premiership, the average salary would be in the region of £125,00-£150,000 a year (about €152,000-€182,000 a year).

    An international will make around double that with match fees and bonuses on top.

    As most people know, the money in France can go a lot higher, with the top guys making up to €750,000 a year.

    But then, a club like Toulouse works off an annual budget of over €30 million. In Ireland, the four provinces combined wouldn’t come close to that.

    Munster’s total budget for the year is somewhere around the €5 million mark so the idea of trying to match the salaries on offer in France is a non-starter.

    A young guy coming out of the academy in Ireland would expect a first contract of maybe €35,000 and it goes up in levels from there on. A provincial player who’s a regular but not an international will make between €85,000 and €120,000 a year, but that rises if and when he becomes an international.

    A top-class overseas international will be up there with the top Irish earners, earning anything from €250,000 upwards.

    It sounds like a lot of money if you’re a punter sitting in the stand but as I say, careers are short.

    Is Quinlan currently the best rugby journalist in the country? Every one of his articles has been top notch and extremely honest.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,721 ✭✭✭Otacon


    I really like his articles. They seem like a conversation you would have with him or something.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,699 ✭✭✭bamboozle


    Not really sure where to put this, but Quinnie has another great article in the Times today. He talks about player's salarys and its great to have some actually input on their earnings. The dig at soccer players is great too.

    The full article can be found here, but I'll put an excerpt below.



    Is Quinlan currently the best rugby journalist in the country? Every one of his articles has been top notch and extremely honest.

    Gerry Thornley, Liam Toland and Matt Williams for me. no complaints with Quinlan though. Used like Bob Casey's articles.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 881 ✭✭✭ray jay


    If that €5m figure is true, that means the salary cap in England is more than Munster's entire budget. So much for money holding them back!


This discussion has been closed.
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