M1 Garand?

Manic Moran · 31-12-2010 1:13am

killerking wrote: »

What is bizarre about that conception?

Well, for starters, pieces of metal, plastic and wood don't have magical evil powers.

I don't see any armed bandits riding around on trucks waving rifles and grenade launchers raping and pillaging the Irish countryside so I fail to see why anyone needs to own semi-automatic or automatic military grade rifles.

Here's the odd thing about a free society. "Need" doesn't really enter into it. Do you need most anything you own, or need to do anything you do? You don't need a nice car and you don't need a pint, but we can still drive and we can still drink. (Or combine the two, with unfortunate results). Most every country in Europe, save the Vatican, issues licenses to the general public who want them for centre-fire semi-auto rifles if some conditions are met, and don't seem to have a wave of particular problems coming as a result.

Unless you are in a shooting club or re-enactment society - you have no business owning any military grade weapon for any reason unless you are a wacko who wants to start a small war.

Despite the fact that the chances are that most people who will get licenses for such firearms will be in shooting clubs as a matter of course, is a law-abiding private citizen who is a member of a shooting club somehow less of a risk to public safety than a law-abiding private citizen who is not a member of a shooting club?

The thought of thousands of people armed to the teeth already with shotguns and rifles is bad enough. It would be a nightmare if a group of individuals styling themselves as revolutionaries decided to turn up and take over a town or major urban area.

Greece is in a worse situation than Ireland in the financial regimen, needing the bailout earlier. Greece also licenses handguns and military calibre rifles to its citizens for sporting purposes (including for concealed carry defence, if you can justify it), and in Crete you can own fully-automatic assault rifles with little restriction. Thus far, I have not seen a group of armed revolutionaries storming Athens or Akrotiri.

NTM

killerking · 31-12-2010 11:28am

Do you need most anything you own, or need to do anything you do? You don't need a nice car and you don't need a pint, but we can still drive and we can still drink.

A person has no good reason to own a high velocity fully automatic rifle in Ireland. I don't want to live in a society where there are people armed with these weapons because I don't want to be DEAD thank you very much.

End of discussion.

xflyer · 31-12-2010 11:37am

Really Killerking, clearly you have little or no exposure to firearms of any sort. So you've built them up in your mind as some sort of terrifying threat to society. Quite a common view in fact borne of ignorance and propaganda. Meanwhile in the real world gun ownership is common in Ireland and has been for some time despite the complications put in place by people who think like you.

So if I want to own an old military rifle and it's legal then it's none of your business why I want to own it. I'm not insane and neither are any gun owners. Shooting if you care to look it up on these forums is under the Sports section. It's a sport, target shooting is fun and requires a great deal of skill. That is a good enough reason to try anything.

In fact this debate you sparked with your ill considered views has got me thinking. I'm seriously thinking about getting a rifle now, several friends have one. I must look into it.

Sod'o swords · 31-12-2010 4:40pm

killerking wrote: »

A person has no good reason to own a high velocity fully automatic rifle in Ireland. I don't want to live in a society where there are people armed with these weapons because I don't want to be DEAD thank you very much.

End of discussion.

Killerking, if i wanted to kill you i could pick up a shoe and bludgeon you to death with it, or run you over in my car, which has killed far, faaaaaar more people than guns in this country.

If people have the mentality to harm others they certainty don't need a gun to do so.

People have robbed shops with their hands in plastic bags passing them off as guns.

I'm guessing you're heard too many stories about America where it's 'easier to get a gun than alcohol' so you just assume that's the case everywhere. Which even in america, it isn't.

If someone wanted to go postal on a shopping centre or a school here they still could get a gun, they'd have to go through a drug dealer or the likes but they could still get one.

CJhaughey · 31-12-2010 7:45pm

killerking wrote: »

A person has no good reason to own a high velocity fully automatic rifle in Ireland. I don't want to live in a society where there are people armed with these weapons because I don't want to be DEAD thank you very much.

End of discussion.

Well as I have said before as far as fully auto rifles go, there are none in civilian ownership AFAIK.So your fears are groundless.
You do realise that the vetting process is very strict here? That in order to get a license you have to give your GP's number to the Gardai?
Not alone that but any violent act on your part assault etc will disqualify you from owning a firearm.
It is definately not a case of walking up and just paying for the firearm and walking out of a shop.
Thats why shooting is such a safe sport.

kowloon · 31-12-2010 10:48pm

Everyone I've met in Ireland who owns a gun was very responsible and safe, I wish I could say the same about all the eejits on the roads.

Morlar · 01-01-2011 12:14am

Originally Posted by killerking View Post
Germans owning guns makes me uneasy for obvious reasons.

Morlar wrote: »

Why does private firearm ownership by German citizens make you uneasy ?

Hi Killerking - would it be possible for you to circle back and address this question I asked you a page or so back ?

Ardennes1944 · 02-01-2011 10:05pm

god i only wanted a list of the guns i could possibly own and its developed into such a stupid argument. guns can be for sport, just like archery is.

marcsignal · 03-01-2011 7:06am

@ killerking

Me and my Gustaf 1990

still don't feel like killing anyone yet, and it's 2011 already:pac:

jonniebgood1 · 03-01-2011 12:40pm

Mark Bizon with his gun. http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20011891-504083.html

While people may be indignant as they are responsible gun owners, there are also those who may be irresponsible (to say the least) gun owners. Derrick Bird for example flipping when he heard details of his mothers will.

Perhaps there is way of vetting the systems better to prevent this. Can somone who is familiar with gun laws confirm if a citizen has mental problems/ instability, is there any method of taking their gun back off them?

CJhaughey · 03-01-2011 1:25pm

jonniebgood1 wrote: »

Perhaps there is way of vetting the systems better to prevent this. Can somone who is familiar with gun laws confirm if a citizen has mental problems/ instability, is there any method of taking their gun back off them?

Yes the gardai can and do take guns off people for this kind of thing.
Assaults and violent acts will likely merit the same response.
You cannot legislate for lunatics. Its impossible.
There was a chap drove into a crowd in his car recently, killing a few and injuring more. How do you legislate for that?

Dr Strange · 03-01-2011 1:33pm

This has gone way beyond the original question here. Maybe jonniebgood1's question regarding legislation would be better suited for the shooting forum? I seem to remember that something similar was discussed there before.

Cardinal Richelieu · 22-01-2012 5:00pm

Anyone looking for one should contact the South Korean miltary!:D

Strategypage

M1 Carbine Banned In America

January 22, 2012: After over two years of negotiations, South Korea has finally received permission to export antique (over 50 years old) American military rifles back to the United States. South Korea has been given permission to sell 87,310 M1 Garand rifles to American collectors. The U.S. still refuses to allow South Korea to export 770,160 M1 Carbines to collectors in the United States. That's because the M1s can only hold eight .30 caliber (7.62mm) bullets while the carbines use a magazine (holding up to 30 rounds). The M1 Carbine can also be easily modified to fire automatically. While not outlawed in the United States, M1 Carbine imports are usually banned.
All this export effort began three years ago. As South Korea upgraded its armed forces over the last two decades, it has had to dispose of a lot of old equipment. But then it discovered that it had put into storage many World War II era rifles it had received from the United States during the 1950s. Some of these M-1 Garand rifles (the first semiautomatic rifle to enter wide service in any army) and M-1 Carbines (which fire a pistol class 7.62mm round) had only been used occasionally by reservists, and even these troops have since been armed with more modern weapons.

In the normal course of events, these old rifles would be melted down. Fortunately, someone in the South Korean Defense Ministry realized that M-1s sell for over a thousand dollars each on the collectors market. So those 87,000 M-1 were worth up to $100 million (or half that, if they are all dropped on the market at once). The M1 Carbines, which used to be sold cheap, have recently been going for nearly as much as the Garands. For once, the South Koreans will be able to sell a used weapon at a huge profit (since they received them for free, and have only had to pay for storage and maintenance since then).

Efforts continue to find export markets for the M1 Carbines. South Korea was the largest foreign user of the M1 Carbine, receiving 15.3 percent of the 6.5 million produced.

tac foley · 22-01-2012 10:19pm

killerking wrote: »

This is a clip of the weapon in action - as long as the operator presses the trigger the gas operated mechanism of the weapon will cycle

Sir - that and the comment about killing politicians I frankly find astounding.

The M1 Garand does NOT fire as long as the operator hold the trigger down. It is NOT a full-automatic firearm.

It requires a squeeze and release of the trigger for every shot to function - it is a SEMI-automatic firearm.

The rest of your ill-informed drivel I'll ignore.

tac

tac foley · 22-01-2012 11:01pm

Ardennes1944 wrote: »

god i only wanted a list of the guns i could possibly own and its developed into such a stupid argument. guns can be for sport, just like archery is.

Dear Mr Ardennes - apologies for the late answer, but I've only just found this thread. In the event that you didn't get any of the messages from my pals in the VCRAI, here is a list of ALL the UNRESTRICTED former military rifles and carbines that are currently legal in the Republic of Ireland -

1. EVERY model of .303 British Lee-Enfield ever made - to include the Lee-Metford, the SMLE, the N04, and 5.

2. EVERY model of military Mauser ever made with a calibre less than 8mm [more correctly 7.92x57] - to include Sweden, Argentina, Siam, Persia, Mexico, Chile, Brazil, Venezuela, Peru, Ecuador, Guatemala and a few more I can't think of right now.

3. The Canadian .280 and .303 Ross.

4. The US Krag in 30-40 Krag.

5. The US Navy Lee in 6mm Lee.

6. Every model of straight-pull Mannlicher-Schoenauer ever made - 6.5x54, 6.5x54R,

7. Every model of Swiss Schmidt-Rubin from the model 1889 on, in 7.5x55 Swiss, and

8. Every version of the revised Furrer-action K31, also in 7.5x55 Swiss.

9. Every model of Japanese service rifle ever made - 6.5 and 7mm Arisaka.

10. Every model of 7.62x54R Mosin-Nagant rifle and carbine ever made, by every nation that made or used them - from Tzarist Russia to the end of WW2, Russia and Finland and all the Warsaw Pact nations, too.

11. Every French Lebel in 7.5 Lebel, and MAS in the same calibre.

12. Every model of Mannlicher/Carcano in 7.5 and 6.35mm.

13. US Springfield rifle in 30-06 Srpingfield - all versions, Army and USMC.

I'm sure to have overlooked a few, but then I'm getting old and it's way past my bedtime.

However, here is the list of RESTRICTED firearms that are judged to be classic and vintage enuff to use in the VCRAI -

All single-shot or repetition shot firearms with a calibre of 7.92mm or greater, including ALL German armed forces military issue rifles and carbines.

That's the Mausers taken care of. AFAIK, no other military/classic firearm of the kind that is PRESENTLY permitted in the RoI has a greater calibre - the gigantic pre-smokeless powder world has yet to open out to you.

So, what are we left with?

1. The M1 Garand 30-06, semi-auto.

2. The M1 carbine .30 cal., semi-auto.

3. The Russian SKS in 7.62x39 and its variants - all semi-auto.

4. The Swedish Ljungmann in 6.5x55 SE, semi-auto.

5. The M1A in 7.62x51 by Beretta of Italy, semi-auto.

No doubt there are a few more, but I'm certain you get the picture. More modern semi-auto firearms ARE permitted, but they are rare. I'm concentrating on those that are readily available - more or less - in the RoI.

If you want to know any more about this kind of shooting, get in touch with one of us in the VCRAI - we are more than happy to bend your ear all day long about our guns and why they are so great [and cheap].

tac
www.vcrai.com

Ardennes1944 · 22-02-2012 5:31pm

only just saw your great,informative reply sir i thank you! certainly clears up things for me

M1 Garand?

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