Beware if Switching from Eircom to Sky

Herr Khume Schuccs · 05-11-2013 1:17am #1

Hi All, new to Boards but have often checked out your posts which I found very helpful and detailed. Hopefully someone might be able to help me with a problem I encountered after switching from Eircom to Sky, or at least it may help prevent someone else making the same mistake.

I switched in April, Sky said they would manage everything (I also saw their website FAQ advice 'Do I need to contact my current provider? No, once you order & provide your UAN we will take care of the rest'), but my final Eircom bill included a fine of €51 for not giving 30 days notice.

I contacted Sky, they said I should not have been charged this and to contact Eircom & ComReg.
Eircom said the charge was correct.
I found ComReg far from helpful and inconsistent in their advice.

I joined Eircom in Aug 2010 and still have the T&C's, no mention of 30 days notice, was not notified or did not agree to any changes to these.
Sky say this issue is nothing to do with them despite their FAQ advice, one rep admitted this was not new to them, so basically they walked me into the fine (which I suspect is what Sky wanted so ComReg would get complaints on this issue, which in fairness does hinder switching so is not too good for a competetive market).

All I wanted was to simply switch my provider, this has caused endless hassle since, I thoroughly regret switching (which I suspect is what Eircom want). I was in no rush and would have happily waited for an extra week or two to avoid that fine if I had known (both Sky and Eircom knew I would be fined, neither bothered to give me the choice to avoid this). I was a long time Sky tv customer, had always found them a pleasure to deal with and trusted them, which in hindsight was my mistake. For anyone thinking of switching, I would advise you check out everything yourself. Sorry for the length of this post but believe me this is the short version. Advice from the Boards expects would be most appreciated.
Thanks,
HKS

Mesut Ozil · 05-11-2013 3:22am

I switched from Eircom to Sky on January 30th and I never got fined over it and nor have I heard of anyone being fined over it.

Did Eircom refund you the fine?

keno-daytrader · 05-11-2013 2:40pm

Mesut Ozil wrote: »

I switched from Eircom to Sky on January 30th and I never got fined over it and nor have I heard of anyone being fined over it.

Did Eircom refund you the fine?

I got the charge and so did many others when switching to sky from eircon

Herr Khume Schuccs · 05-11-2013 3:28pm

Thank you for your reply Mesut, it is interesting that you managed to switch without getting a fine (did you inform Eircom separately or just let Sky do it all?).

I did not pay the fine, after Sky told me it was wrong, I referred the matter to ComReg. I told Eircom that I was disputing the fine and therefore not to seek payment by direct debit. Eircom went ahead and requested the direct debit anyway and fined me another €18 when payment was refused (on my instructions) by my bank.

Eircom have now sent me 2 letters threatening legal action and associated legal costs if I do not pay up (this despite the fact the ComReg are currently investigating the matter, I requested Eircom wait until a decision is reached, this would appear to be irrelevant to them). I paid Eircom for the few days that were due before Sky took over the service, so the amount now in dispute (about €70) all relates to fines resulting from my switch.
Thanks again,
HKS

cork_south · 05-11-2013 3:33pm

I got burned the exact same way.
It's a joke, Sky's website says just fill out the form and we will take care of everything.
eircom fined me a Minths broadband a few months after I switched.

I rang Sky and they said it was not their problem. I then rang Eircom and they said the 30 days notice is in their T and Cs.

The Sky guy said he would contact management to get their website updated.
That was about 6 months ago.

Mesut Ozil · 05-11-2013 4:04pm

Herr Khume Schuccs wrote: »

Thank you for your reply Mesut, it is interesting that you managed to switch without getting a fine (did you inform Eircom separately or just let Sky do it all?).

I was, however, in contract and had to pay a month's bill (€65) to switch over, but nothing about a fine for not giving 30 days notice.

Sky told me they'll handle everything and my switch over was smooth.

Baneblade · 05-11-2013 6:02pm

http://www.eircom.ie/bveircom/pdf/Standard_Broadband_Terms_and_Conditions_April_2012.pdf

section seven is about terminating the service

cork_south · 05-11-2013 6:30pm

Baneblade wrote: »

http://www.eircom.ie/bveircom/pdf/Standard_Broadband_Terms_and_Conditions_April_2012.pdf

section seven is about terminating the service

Yeah but the point is that Sky advertise that they will handle EVERYTHING. Which the clearly don't.

Herr Khume Schuccs · 05-11-2013 8:24pm

Thanks for all the replies and sorry for the delay replying, I will try to reply to each as soon as possible.

Hi keno-daytrader, I did ask ComReg if there were others but they would not say. While it is good to know I am not alone, I am sorry to hear you and many others also got charged.

On a slightly more optimistic note, ComReg are still investigating the matter (since April), so there is a question mark over Eircom's action, hopefully you and others will be refunded eventually. Whatever the rights and wrongs of Eircom's action, I am furious that Sky would, apparently knowingly, do this to their customers. Not sure what they hope to gain but once my contract is up I will be moving tv, broadband & phone from them.

ComReg said the outcome of their investigation would be on their website, so might be worth keeping an eye on that.

All the best,
HKS

Herr Khume Schuccs · 05-11-2013 8:41pm

Hi Cork South,
It is still the same (link as of today http://www.sky.com/ireland/switching-to-sky/broadband/). The information provided by Sky to my mind is very clear, while at the same time being very misleading, see the 3 Steps and FAQ's 'Do I need to contact my current service provider?'. I asked Sky to change this also so other people would not be mislead, but for some reason they did not.

When you are then fined, Sky tell you this is something you should have done yourself, after initially telling you that they will handle everything and no need to contact Eircom. I am baffled by this, what are Sky thinking? I do not think many of their customers being happy to be treated like this.
Thanks for your reply,
HKS

Herr Khume Schuccs · 05-11-2013 10:45pm

Hi Mesut,
That sounds like the fine for not giving 30 days notice (they may refer to this as breaking your contract also), basically Eircom changed their T&C's, before once your (6 months or year) contract was over you were free to switch, now there is always a requirement that 30 days notice is given even after your minimum contract period is over, if the 30 days notice is not given Eircom impose a fine equivalent to a month for not complying with the T&C's . Sky seem to switch people immediately, therefore making them liable to the fine, what is worse is that Sky know this is going to happen.

The bills can be difficult to follow, standing charges are often paid in advance so you would be due a refund if you are ceasing the service, but when the fine is charged the overall total for you final bill may look like a normal bill (the wording used on the bill relating to the 30 day fine is 'Charge in lieu of one months notice to cease service').

Fines for not completing your initial minimum contract are calculated from when you finish to the time remaining on your contract, this can of course, by coincidence be equal to a month.

I hope this is of use,
HKS

Herr Khume Schuccs · 06-11-2013 12:04am

Baneblade wrote: »

http://www.eircom.ie/bveircom/pdf/Standard_Broadband_Terms_and_Conditions_April_2012.pdf

section seven is about terminating the service

Hi Baneblade,
I realise now that this is in the new T&C's, I did not at the time I switched because I had not been informed of the change (this was not in the T&C's I got when I signed up to Eircom in Aug 2010).

As cork_south said, Sky lead people to understand that they will handle the switch, see their website http://www.sky.com/ireland/switching-to-sky/broadband/

Sky clearly tell you that you do not need to contact Eircom, that they will manage the switchover on your behalf. It is only when it is too late that Sky tell you it is up to yourself to inform Eircom, why do Sky do not wait the required month? why do Sky not tell you that you will be fined if you switch before a months notice is given? why do Eircom not tell you that you will be fined, you are still their customer before the switch happens?

I think very few people would knowingly not give this notice if they were aware it would lead to a fine. The fact that this is happening would indicate this is a problem, I for one would have been happy to wait an extra week or two rather than be fined.

All the best,
HKS

dub45 · 06-11-2013 12:34am

AFAIK it has always been the practise will all isps that once you finish your initial contract you are on a rolling month's contract and again afaik all isps require 30 days' notice to terminate a contract.

Comreg really should pursue the issue of Sky falsely advising potential customers of how to negotiate the switch and of course all isps should make it clear what exactly is required in terms of notice.

Herr Khume Schuccs · 06-11-2013 1:57am

Hi dub24,
Many thanks for your comments, my understanding of the T&C's I got in Aug 2010 were that I signed up for a minimum 6 month contract with no follow on rolling requirement to give 30 days notice, I have attached this below (minus personal info at the top) as I must admit to only partially understand some of this mumbo jumbo.

Maybe someone that understands this could explain exactly what I signed up to, it seems I agree to hire telecommunications line & equipment from Eircom. Even though I switched to Sky, I am still using Eircom's network (presume Sky are paying on my behalf), so did I break the agreement?

I do see where they can change the T&C's subsequently, an Eircom rep told me they had changed the T&C's in Feb 2010 to introduce the 30 day notice etc., since I only got these in Aug 2010 I am not sure if my one were ever changed subsequently.

If the standard contract in 2010 was for 6 months with no subsequent notice period, it would seem to be a backward step with regards a competitive market if ComReg allowed providers introduce these restrictions.

I have asked various parties, but recieved no clarification on how exactly you can comply with the 30 day requirement and not be fined, lose service or be hit with a reconnection charge. If I gave Eircom 30 days notice before contacting Sky I would be without service for weeks, I doubt if the switching of service can be timed down to a particular day so it is likely that however you proceeded your service would be cut off for a period or you would breach the 30 days notice. If it was cut off, since you still want to use Eircom's network, would you then be liable for a reconnection charge? If the switch happens a day or two before the 30 days are up, will they still fine you. I think it is pretty hard to comply with this rule, even if you do know about it and make every effort to abide by it.

I am hoping ComReg will clarify the position, however, following some of the replies received from that quarter to date, I'm afraid I do not have much faith in them and hope they are not from the same school of regulators we had in the past.

Is it too much to ask that customers can have a simple process to switch providers, as happens with electricity and gas?
HKS

fatherted1969 · 06-11-2013 2:33am

Thanks for the info folks. I switched from Sky to Eircom 2 weeks ago. The sky broadband box only game yesterday. The sky agent assured me they would take care of cancelling my eircom. I've a months option to opt out of the broadband. Im ringing first thing in morning and if im going to be charged a month by Eircom then i'm cancelling my sky broadband. Very sneaky to tie ye into a contract if true. I'll post up their response in morning

fatherted1969 · 06-11-2013 2:33am

Thanks for the info folks. I switched from Sky to Eircom 2 weeks ago. The sky broadband box only game yesterday. The sky agent assured me they would take care of cancelling my eircom. I've a months option to opt out of the broadband. Im ringing first thing in morning and if im going to be charged a month by Eircom then i'm cancelling my sky broadband. Very sneaky to tie ye into a contract if true. I'll post up their response in morning

domeld · 06-11-2013 9:03pm

Hi All,
There is always charge (one month rental) when You are changing providers. Does not meter where You are switching. Eircom wholesale always charge operators, operators charge charge customer.

This is not fair because only account (UAN) number will be changed.

Herr Khume Schuccs · 07-11-2013 12:14am

Hi Fatherted1969,
From my experience, I would take whatever Sky tell you with a pinch of salt. It would be safer to check elsewhere also, with Eircom anyway. Sky might have stopped this practice, cannot see what good it did them to immediately annoy their newest customer. I have seen similar stories on Sky Forums, doing a search under 'Eircom Charge' shows a few. I would be interested if you managed to leave Eircom without incurring this charge.
Thanks,
HKS

Herr Khume Schuccs · 07-11-2013 2:37am

Hi domeld,
The only charge I am aware of relating to changing providers is the charge in lieu of one months notice to cease service. This charge can be avoided by giving the 30 days notice. This charge was only introduced by Eircom in the last 2 to 3 years.

Having said that, the overall process of changing provider is made unnessarily difficult, to the detriment of consumers like you and I.
HKS

fatherted1969 · 07-11-2013 10:10am

Hi HKS i rang Eircom to enquire whether i'd have to give a months notice of quitting and yes i do. I have no problem paying the extra month i just don't want to pay on the double. Anyway Eircom won't allow you to cancel over the phone you have to do it in writing, i was annoyed over this as some company's have no problem tying you into contract over the phone but you can't get out of it the sam
way.

I rang Sky and had a go at them for misleading me into a broadband contract when i still have a month left with Eircom. The lad went off the phone twice to speak to his supervisor and said they'd credit my account with whatever Eircom charge me for the month so i won't get charged twice for the same service. I'm waiting for this offer in writing off them. I still have till 8th Dec to cancel with Sky as they've a month before you have a contract with them. Beware their lies, believe nothing unless your certain

fatherted1969 · 07-11-2013 10:11am

Hi HKS i rang Eircom to enquire whether i'd have to give a months notice of quitting and yes i do. I have no problem paying the extra month i just don't want to pay on the double. Anyway Eircom won't allow you to cancel over the phone you have to do it in writing, i was annoyed over this as some company's have no problem tying you into contract over the phone but you can't get out of it the sam
way.

I rang Sky and had a go at them for misleading me into a broadband contract when i still have a month left with Eircom. The lad went off the phone twice to speak to his supervisor and said they'd credit my account with whatever Eircom charge me for the month so i won't get charged twice for the same service. I'm waiting for this offer in writing off them. I still have till 8th Dec to cancel with Sky as they've a month before you have a contract with them. Beware their lies, believe nothing unless your certain

dub45 · 07-11-2013 4:39pm

fatherted1969 wrote: »

Hi HKS i rang Eircom to enquire whether i'd have to give a months notice of quitting and yes i do. I have no problem paying the extra month i just don't want to pay on the double. Anyway Eircom won't allow you to cancel over the phone you have to do it in writing, i was annoyed over this as some company's have no problem tying you into contract over the phone but you can't get out of it the sam
way.

I rang Sky and had a go at them for misleading me into a broadband contract when i still have a month left with Eircom. The lad went off the phone twice to speak to his supervisor and said they'd credit my account with whatever Eircom charge me for the month so i won't get charged twice for the same service. I'm waiting for this offer in writing off them. I still have till 8th Dec to cancel with Sky as they've a month before you have a contract with them. Beware their lies, believe nothing unless your certain

I think you are always better to cancel in writing - and keeping a copy of same of course.

IIRC there once was a scheme which provided for easy transger between isps?

Maybe some of the older participants on here might remember it?

I think there was a particular form that had to be completed.

domeld · 07-11-2013 6:22pm

Herr Khume Schuccs wrote: »

Hi domeld,
The only charge I am aware of relating to changing providers is the charge in lieu of one months notice to cease service. This charge can be avoided by giving the 30 days notice. This charge was only introduced by Eircom in the last 2 to 3 years.

Having said that, the overall process of changing provider is made unnessarily difficult, to the detriment of consumers like you and I.
HKS

Hi,
This fee was introduced in last 12-18 months.
Tell me what is a difference to pay cancellation fee (one month rental) or give them cancellation letter and wait one month to move (pay one month rental). Eircom wholesale will get money anyway.

dub45 · 07-11-2013 7:38pm

Well if you time it correctly (i.e. give notice - wait a month and then move) you wont be paying anything "extra".

avud · 07-11-2013 7:57pm

Hi

I'm out of contract with eircom and thinking of switching to sky broadband does anyone know if I would have to give one months notice/or even notify eircom.

Thanks in advance for any replies.

domeld · 07-11-2013 8:37pm

avud wrote: »

Hi

I'm out of contract with eircom and thinking of switching to sky broadband does anyone know if I would have to give one months notice/or even notify eircom.

Thanks in advance for any replies.

Yes

dam099 · 07-11-2013 9:24pm

dub45 wrote: »

Well if you time it correctly (i.e. give notice - wait a month and then move) you wont be paying anything "extra".

That runs the risk of an interruption in service though if the switch doesn't happen immediately after the month. Comreg should really be mandating a switch process that takes account of the notice requirement e.g. when you sign up with Sky it automatically generates your notice to Eircom and Sky wait 30 days to move you.

Its probably complicated though by the fact that people who are still in contract may also try to switch unaware of their obligations either through ignorance they were on a 12 month contract to begin with or by being put on a new 12 month contract by some of the underhand tactics I've seen mentioned on other threads. The new provider can't really be aware of all the possible contractual arrangements unless a protocol for verifying these was also included which might be overkill.

Personally I switched to UPC from Eircom so followed the method you advise but its not a very elegant solution for customers who are just switching between DSL resellers (including Eircom Retail in that category).

Herr Khume Schuccs · 07-11-2013 11:20pm

dub45 wrote: »

I think you are always better to cancel in writing - and keeping a copy of same of course.

IIRC there once was a scheme which provided for easy transger between isps?

Maybe some of the older participants on here might remember it?

I think there was a particular form that had to be completed.

Thats good advice dub24, it seems important to cancel in writing with Eircom, they have details on their website (I think they also require you ring some Eircom number to cancel). I have seen a number of people complaining that Eircom claim they never received their cancellation letter, so it is probably safer to register your letter (unfortunately this adds a bit of expense to the process).
HKS

Herr Khume Schuccs · 07-11-2013 11:51pm

domeld wrote: »

Hi,
This fee was introduced in last 12-18 months.
Tell me what is a difference to pay cancellation fee (one month rental) or give them cancellation letter and wait one month to move (pay one month rental). Eircom wholesale will get money anyway.

Hi domel, I can see your point, there can be a number of different reasons a customer may be cancelling (moving house, moving to UPC's seperate network etc). In my case I was just switching my provider from Eircom to Sky, not sure if this is classed as cancelling as I still wanted broadband and phone, just that Sky now supply them through the Eircom network. Effectively now instead of paying Eircom directly for the use of their network I pay Sky who pay (BT who then pay Eircom, I think) for my use of the Eircom network.

Eircom told me the changes to the T&C's came into effect on 24 Jan 2011, I was just going on their info but yours may be more accurate.

In my case the difference was as follows,
Give 30 days notice to Eircom in March, switch to Sky in April = pay normal rental to Eircom for March and pay normal rental to Sky for April -- OR --
Switch to Sky in April without giving 30 days notice = pay normal rental to Eircom for March and pay normal rental to Sky for April PLUS pay an additional €51 charge in lieu of notice to Eircom. This is what happened to me, effectively you would be paying rental on the double for April.

I hope this explains where I am coming from on this, others may be able to explain this better.
Thanks,
HKS

dub45 · 07-11-2013 11:59pm

dam099 wrote: »

That runs the risk of an interruption in service though if the switch doesn't happen immediately after the month. Comreg should really be mandating a switch process that takes account of the notice requirement e.g. when you sign up with Sky it automatically generates your notice to Eircom and Sky wait 30 days to move you.

Its probably complicated though by the fact that people who are still in contract may also try to switch unaware of their obligations either through ignorance they were on a 12 month contract to begin with or by being put on a new 12 month contract by some of the underhand tactics I've seen mentioned on other threads. The new provider can't really be aware of all the possible contractual arrangements unless a protocol for verifying these was also included which might be overkill.

Personally I switched to UPC from Eircom so followed the method you advise but its not a very elegant solution for customers who are just switching between DSL resellers (including Eircom Retail in that category).

As I pointed out in another post there was a procedure in place some years ago to facilitate easy switching. However all isps should be aware that anyone switching to them is likely to be a contract of some sort or other and encourage them to regularise things with their existing isp. AFAIK there is no isp who does not implement a rolling month's contract on completion of the initial full contract period.

fatherted1969 · 08-11-2013 12:01am

avud wrote: »

Hi

I'm out of contract with eircom and thinking of switching to sky broadband does anyone know if I would have to give one months notice/or even notify eircom.

Thanks in advance for any replies.

Yes, Sky may tell you that they will sort it but that's not true. See my post above for my experience with that

Beware if Switching from Eircom to Sky

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