WARNING - Be careful buying from Apple Ireland. Also - Advice desperately needed

foggy_lad · 27-11-2015 12:12am

Joseph wrote: »

Of course I've no connection to the related companies. If I did I probably would have offered a solution rather than advising the OP to make a SCC complaint.

Writing a letter - 1 hour, sending it - 20 minutes, waiting for a response - 4/6 weeks.

Talking to them on the phone - 30 minutes, waiting for a response before deadline - 1 week.

A quicker resolution? Priceless.

For everything else, there's time wasting suggestions.

Bless your faith in Apple

Joseph · 27-11-2015 12:14am

foggy_lad wrote: »

Bless your faith in Apple

I own no Apple products. I place my 'faith' in knowing companies like avoiding litigation.

foggy_lad · 27-11-2015 12:22am

They don't give a damn about threats of courts and solicitors etc as they know 99.9% never follow up on their threats and even if they do the company just have to offer some small concession to throw them off track yet again.

the OP has got the best advice from Consumer Help: Fiona on this thread and some others and there is nothing more to be added.

Joseph · 27-11-2015 12:29am

foggy_lad wrote: »

They don't give a damn about threats of courts and solicitors etc as they know 99.9% never follow up on their threats and even if they do the company just have to offer some small concession to throw them off track yet again.

the OP has got the best advice from Fiona on this thread and some others and there is nothing more to be added.

If they don't give a damn about litigation, why would they give an equal or greater amount for a letter of complaint?

Fiona's advice was generic ConsumerHelp advice.

OP is free to take whatever advice or combination of advice he thinks is best, no need for you to make judgement on that.

chocice94 · 27-11-2015 1:38am

Ryuzaki wrote: »

I believe it was both parties who ended up providing this information. There was a lovely chap who worked at consumer rights and he didn't want to give me false information and offered to ask colleagues before giving me a definite answer. I got a call the next morning saying it was unfortunately at the discretion of the manufacturer because they're an American company and he suggested I go to the small claims court!

Check the Invoice you got, the consumer helpline and Apple both gave you false advice! Apple trades in Ireland as a company called "Apple Distribution International" and it is "Apple Distribution International" that sold you the MacBook. This company is established and registered in Ireland and therefore is bound by Irish consumer laws. My advice would be to give Apple a one last call, ask to speak to someone higher up in management and tell them what has happened and that you want to get your MacBook replaced under the Consumer laws that are in place. It is at their advice that you were told to go to the AASP (CompuB) and also as the business that sold you the MacBook they are required to repair/replace/refund you for it!

keithclancy · 27-11-2015 9:34am

Hi OP

Ring back Customer Service, advise that the issue is not rectified, don't bother dealing with the AASP (and I'd pretty much ignore what they said anyway)

Keep your complaint simple, judging by the amount of information in your OP you may be causing problems for yourself.

Only things that are important.

The fault
When a repair was attempted
How many times a repair was attempted
The dates when they were attempted

Also state that you bought the item from the Apple Store and that the item was DOA when you received it.

Finally (and again make it simple) "the product you sold me is not of merchantable quality, what are you going to do to fix it"

Stick with it being simple and you'll get far, if you don't like the answer from the CSR ask them for the Case ID then hang up and ring back again. They don't like this as it affects their call stats.

Most likely they'll eventually raise an exception and exchange your laptop.

KidMeNotA1 · 30-11-2015 10:42am

Awfully long winded - Please paraphrase, otherwise people will switch off.
Small Claims Court €25. Forms can be downloaded on-line. Must be deposited to Court in area of seller (shop you bought it from, even on-line, they must have an address). Court will then attempt to reach a settlement, otherwise can take a few months, depending on how busy it is. Claim for all your costs, incl. Court fee. Must have proper name of trader on form, so dig that out.
Welcome to the big bad world - do not waste your time being messed about again - go for the jagular.

Ryuzaki · 02-12-2015 4:35pm

**Update One**

*Tuesday 01/12/15*

So, no call back from the rep so I took matters into my own hands. I rang the tech support line and politely asked could I speak to someone higher up. We go through the case and all the details and they are shocked at what has happened but are honest and admit there is not a whole lot that can be done. I told him I would like an acceptable solution to be met by closing of business on Tuesday the 8th of December. He is now investigating the case and said at most he might be able to get me a like for like replacement so fingers crossed something happens here. I am expecting a call back this Friday around 5pm

*Wednesday 02/12/15*
I get a phone call from the Customer Relations Rep asking if I have gone to get the laptop repaired myself / what the craic is. I explain I sought legal advice and acted upon that, ringing his colleague in the Tech Support department because he himself is impossible to reach. I explained the investigation is ongoing and that is where I'm at. He said **"It's only a minor cosmetic issue and that we can't do anything about that."** I ended the call and he is going to ring back next Monday.

keithclancy · 02-12-2015 4:49pm

Ryuzaki wrote: »

**Update One**

*Tuesday 01/12/15*

So, no call back from the rep so I took matters into my own hands. I rang the tech support line and politely asked could I speak to someone higher up. We go through the case and all the details and they are shocked at what has happened but are honest and admit there is not a whole lot that can be done. I told him I would like an acceptable solution to be met by closing of business on Tuesday the 8th of December. He is now investigating the case and said at most he might be able to get me a like for like replacement so fingers crossed something happens here. I am expecting a call back this Friday around 5pm

*Wednesday 02/12/15*
I get a phone call from the Customer Relations Rep asking if I have gone to get the laptop repaired myself / what the craic is. I explain I sought legal advice and acted upon that, ringing his colleague in the Tech Support department because he himself is impossible to reach. I explained the investigation is ongoing and that is where I'm at. He said **"It's only a minor cosmetic issue and that we can't do anything about that."** I ended the call and he is going to ring back next Monday.

Tell them it's not a refurbished unit, only these units are subject to minor cosmetic issues.

The unit was not repaired correctly.

Ryuzaki · 02-12-2015 8:52pm

keithclancy wrote: »

Tell them it's not a refurbished unit, only these units are subject to minor cosmetic issues.

The unit was not repaired correctly.

Will do! Wasn't aware of this, thanks

foggy_lad · 04-12-2015 2:46am

Ryuzaki wrote: »

**Update One**

*Tuesday 01/12/15*

So, no call back from the rep so I took matters into my own hands. I rang the tech support line and politely asked could I speak to someone higher up. We go through the case and all the details and they are shocked at what has happened but are honest and admit there is not a whole lot that can be done. I told him I would like an acceptable solution to be met by closing of business on Tuesday the 8th of December. He is now investigating the case and said at most he might be able to get me a like for like replacement so fingers crossed something happens here. I am expecting a call back this Friday around 5pm

*Wednesday 02/12/15*
I get a phone call from the Customer Relations Rep asking if I have gone to get the laptop repaired myself / what the craic is. I explain I sought legal advice and acted upon that, ringing his colleague in the Tech Support department because he himself is impossible to reach. I explained the investigation is ongoing and that is where I'm at. He said **"It's only a minor cosmetic issue and that we can't do anything about that."** I ended the call and he is going to ring back next Monday.

Have you downloaded the small claims court forms yet?

This issue will not be sorted out by talking to Apple on the phone as nobody in apple wants to have to take the hit of replacing this laptop for you on their heads and they also appear to not want to escalate this to someone capable of giving you a replacement or a refund!

whiterebel · 04-12-2015 2:52pm

foggy_lad wrote: »

Have you downloaded the small claims court forms yet?

This issue will not be sorted out by talking to Apple on the phone as nobody in apple wants to have to take the hit of replacing this laptop for you on their heads and they also appear to not want to escalate this to someone capable of giving you a replacement or a refund!

Very unlike Apple to be so bloody minded on this, its like a throwback to the old days!! Usually they are on the ball if there has been damage done to the product and will replace without question. However this should like one massive cluster****, and everyone is afraid to sort it out. I'd agree with Foggy, and fill out the small claims form.

goz83 · 05-12-2015 1:45am

Ryuzaki wrote: »

Yeah I would've thought so too but have a look at this
http://www.apple.com/ie/shop/browse/open/salespolicies

and if you scroll down you'll see this
http://www.apple.com/ie/legal/statutory-warranty/

In their defense they have repaired it to a functional standard and there is no hardware issue with the laptop

Yeah it's on my to-do list now and thanks for the suggestion!

As i read this entire thread on my iPad mini 3

I am not really all that surprised by what the OP has experienced, considering all the messing around at the beginning. At least now there seems to be some traction.

To the OP. I would only focus on the following facts:

*Item purchased from apple online on x date, brand new.
*Rattle and software issue reported to apple on x date. Followed apple reps advice to go to compu b.
*Repair botched on x date. Screen replaced and incorrectly mounted (sharp, dangerous edge).
*repair 2nd attempt also botched on date x. Screen incorrectly mounted. Still rattles.
*repair 3 at different apple approved technician botched on x date. Item still defective.

Then point out that 3 repairs have been attempted and failed. You will only accept a brand new direct replacement at the end of your 5 days and if this reasonable offer of resolution is not met, you will be seeking compensation via the SCC having already downloaded and filled in the application form.

Follow through. Be polite. Good luck.

Ryuzaki · 05-12-2015 2:27am

goz83 wrote: »

As i read this entire thread on my iPad mini 3
I am not really all that surprised by what the OP has experienced, considering all the messing around at the beginning. At least now there seems to be some traction.

To the OP. I would only focus on the following facts:

*Item purchased from apple online on x date, brand new.
*Rattle and software issue reported to apple on x date. Followed apple reps advice to go to compu b.
*Repair botched on x date. Screen replaced and incorrectly mounted (sharp, dangerous edge).
*repair 2nd attempt also botched on date x. Screen incorrectly mounted. Still rattles.
*repair 3 at different apple approved technician botched on x date. Item still defective.

Then point out that 3 repairs have been attempted and failed. You will only accept a brand new direct replacement at the end of your 5 days and if this reasonable offer of resolution is not met, you will be seeking compensation via the SCC having already downloaded and filled in the application form.

Follow through. Be polite. Good luck.

I appreciate you reading the whole thing. I agree it's lengthy and unnecessary at parts but half of the idea is to convey the frustration caused and also to outline exactly what my experience was like.

I have pointed out the aforementioned points to them and I now have some head of the Tech Support department investigating the case. The other rep rang as I mentioned and had nothing to say. I was expecting a call today and got an e-mail saying there was problems on their end and they will call on Monday!

dudara · 05-12-2015 3:49pm

I agree with the previous posters when they say to keep it simple. The lengthy version is exhausting to read and actually makes me lose sympathy. It's much clearer in those few points how bad the service has been.

Keep a record of all the recent calls. If you're not resolved by Monday, I'd start the SCC case. Enough messing around. You've given them way too much leeway.

Oxter · 09-12-2015 12:27am

Contact Apple tomorrow. Give them a link to this thread.

No business big or small likes bad publicity.

There must be a lot of Apple users here.

I would find it useful if Apple were included in the "Talk To" section, as Vodafone. Richer etc are.

L1011 · 09-12-2015 9:41pm

Oxter wrote: »

Contact Apple tomorrow. Give them a link to this thread.

No business big or small likes bad publicity.

There must be a lot of Apple users here.

I would find it useful if Apple were included in the "Talk To" section, as Vodafone. Richer etc are.

Apple are pretty much impervious to bad publicity - all their serious issues ("you're holding it wrong", battery fires, charger fires, phones bending) have done nothing to hamper their sales

Firms have to pay to be on Talk To and actually want to, too. Apple will be neither.

Ryuzaki · 09-12-2015 10:57pm

Yeah basically I'm going to a FLAC centre now either tomorrow or next week (my last week in college thankful) www.flac.ie

While on the phone with them today this happened and I couldn't stop laughing.

Them :"Hey Ryuzaki I'm just ringing to see if your issue was resolved."

Me: "No, I'm seeking legal advice now, a repair was offered and that will hardly suffice at this point"

Them: "Alright I'm sorry to hear that is there anything else I can do to help?"

Me: "Yes actually, I have another question or two for you if that is okay?"

Them: "Sure, what is it you want to ask?"

Me: "When you contacted the second repair store, they told you that you had to shake the laptop with a bit of force to hear a rattle, correct?"

Them: "Yes Ryuzaki, this is correct."

Me: "Okay, and I sent the laptop in to be repaired because of a audible rattling noise, correct?"

Them: "Yeah, that is correct Ryuzaki."

Me: "Okay.. So how did they know that it would rattle if you shook the laptop? I'm not saying it takes a lot of force to make the rattle happen but what I'm saying is you are telling me they sent me back the laptop, knowing the rattle was still there, so therefore the repair was not complete? They knowingly sent me back a broken laptop?

Them: "Uhhhhhhhhhhhh.... emmmm well uhh emmm..."

Sorry for the wall of text but thats basically how it went. He claimed that the repair was because of a crooked or loose screen. I reassured him the repair was for a rattle and he insisted otherwise. Upon rereading the case notes in order to prove me wrong, it was discovered that it was, yes, in fact because of a rattle. Then told me the technician said that I was told it was only when the laptop is given a hard shake which never happened. I said we had a conversation pre-repair and the technician was gobsmacked at the rattling noise so again, another lie although in his defence he said he wasn't sure if this took place pre repair or post repair but regardless, it wasn't the full story.

So yeah, that's where I am now. I wan't to visit the FLAC crowd just to understand the legal side of it more I honestly just want to play it safe and make sure I am not doing anything in a wrong or unfair manner. I did speak to both the original customer relations rep and the senior technical support rep about them knowing the laptop was still rattling and yet still gave it back to me, and both agreed this was the case so I honestly would be shocked if anything wasn't to go in my favour in the court, but we will have to wait and see.

Thanks everyone for the replies, opinions, thoughts and most importantly the advice. This thread has been so inspiring, though provoking and educational for me and I can't stress how much I've appreciated everyones input. I'll still be checking it and updating if needs be and sorry there was a few posts I missed, I did read them, I just had a toooon of projects due and it was quite stressful!

Joseph · 09-12-2015 11:33pm

Ryuzaki wrote: »

Yeah basically I'm going to a FLAC centre now either tomorrow or next week (my last week in college thankful) www.flac.ie

While on the phone with them today this happened and I couldn't stop laughing.

Them :"Hey Ryuzaki I'm just ringing to see if your issue was resolved."

Me: "No, I'm seeking legal advice now, a repair was offered and that will hardly suffice at this point"

Them: "Alright I'm sorry to hear that is there anything else I can do to help?"

Me: "Yes actually, I have another question or two for you if that is okay?"

Them: "Sure, what is it you want to ask?"

Me: "When you contacted the second repair store, they told you that you had to shake the laptop with a bit of force to hear a rattle, correct?"

Them: "Yes Ryuzaki, this is correct."

Me: "Okay, and I sent the laptop in to be repaired because of a audible rattling noise, correct?"

Them: "Yeah, that is correct Ryuzaki."

Me: "Okay.. So how did they know that it would rattle if you shook the laptop? I'm not saying it takes a lot of force to make the rattle happen but what I'm saying is you are telling me they sent me back the laptop, knowing the rattle was still there, so therefore the repair was not complete? They knowingly sent me back a broken laptop?

Them: "Uhhhhhhhhhhhh.... emmmm well uhh emmm..."

Sorry for the wall of text but thats basically how it went. He claimed that the repair was because of a crooked or loose screen. I reassured him the repair was for a rattle and he insisted otherwise. Upon rereading the case notes in order to prove me wrong, it was discovered that it was, yes, in fact because of a rattle. Then told me the technician said that I was told it was only when the laptop is given a hard shake which never happened. I said we had a conversation pre-repair and the technician was gobsmacked at the rattling noise so again, another lie although in his defence he said he wasn't sure if this took place pre repair or post repair but regardless, it wasn't the full story.

So yeah, that's where I am now. I wan't to visit the FLAC crowd just to understand the legal side of it more I honestly just want to play it safe and make sure I am not doing anything in a wrong or unfair manner. I did speak to both the original customer relations rep and the senior technical support rep about them knowing the laptop was still rattling and yet still gave it back to me, and both agreed this was the case so I honestly would be shocked if anything wasn't to go in my favour in the court, but we will have to wait and see.

Thanks everyone for the replies, opinions, thoughts and most importantly the advice. This thread has been so inspiring, though provoking and educational for me and I can't stress how much I've appreciated everyones input. I'll still be checking it and updating if needs be and sorry there was a few posts I missed, I did read them, I just had a toooon of projects due and it was quite stressful!

FLAC is overkill, you're not in the wrong, just file a SCC complaint. Good luck :pac:

dudara · 10-12-2015 10:34pm

You don't need legal advice from FLaC. Just file a SCC case. The SCC process was designed for the average person.

You seem intent on making things more difficult for yourself than is needed. I'm beginning to wonder how much of this running around has been partially caused by yourself.

Contact the Cork City courthouse and ask for help in filing a SCC case.

Nonoperational · 14-12-2015 12:44am

Are you sure it's not just the keys of the keyboard?

Ryuzaki · 15-12-2015 2:30am

Nonoperational wrote: »

Are you sure it's not just the keys of the keyboard?

Yeah I'm positive. If you hold the logo the rattle goes away.

Ryuzaki · 15-12-2015 2:33am

dudara wrote: »

You don't need legal advice from FLaC. Just file a SCC case. The SCC process was designed for the average person.

You seem intent on making things more difficult for yourself than is needed. I'm beginning to wonder how much of this running around has been partially caused by yourself.

Contact the Cork City courthouse and ask for help in filing a SCC case.

Appreciate the comment and I can see where you're coming from but it's more just so I know what I'm doing. I wouldn't see it as extreme, I'd rather not just take a wrong step or do something that could weaken my position. The only reason I mentioned FLAC was because the SCC person told me to try go there before filing a case so I understood what I'm doing, I hardly knew any better.

runawaybishop · 15-12-2015 9:47am

Ryuzaki wrote: »

Appreciate the comment and I can see where you're coming from but it's more just so I know what I'm doing. I wouldn't see it as extreme, I'd rather not just take a wrong step or do something that could weaken my position. The only reason I mentioned FLAC was because the SCC person told me to try go there before filing a case so I understood what I'm doing, I hardly knew any better.

For the love of God, just go to scc and stop wasting time. We're you this scattered on the phone to apple?

slimjimmc · 15-12-2015 4:45pm

Mod: @Posters, please post constructive posts only. A number of off-topic posts have been deleted.

Ryuzaki · 12-02-2016 7:03pm

So I figured I should post some sort of conclusion to this whole ordeal.

I went through with the small claims court and got the very first case for the year of 2016. Apple didn't respond straight away or within the 15 day time period or whatever it was but they did eventually after a bit of poking and prodding from Cork's Small Claims Court.

I got two responses, a call from a lady in the execuitive relations department and a letter of defence from the legal team based in Apples UK offices or something.

After speaking on the phone and dealing with this lady for a while they offered a like for like replacement. I agreed to settle with the IF they gave me a written guarantee that if the rattle happened again during the warranty period then I would be entitled to a full cash refund.

This request was passed by her through to the legal department and was denied. I told her that I was going to just take it to the courts and she rang me one last time to "Discuss it one last time before it comes to that". She told me that it would be a brand new, not refurbished model and although she couldn't give the written guarantee, I would still be able to deal with her directly if any problems arose in future as she had my details. I politely declined as I didn't want to get the same laptop only for the original problem to persist.

She said as a final note, she could offer me and upgrade to the same model laptop with more memory. This still although a kind gesture did not really solve anything as it would still in essence be the same laptop. She asked if she could just send me an email to confirm that the upgrade was offered and to let me review the offer and that was fine.

Upon opening the email I was presented with two options. My current 13" Retina Model but with 256GB of memory

or

The 15" Pro base model with literally double most of the specs and so on.

I agreed to settle with the upgrade instead of going to court and I have to be honest and say once it got to this stage, the staff I was dealing with literally could not have been any nicer to me. They were absolutely lovely and polite and they were so accommodating / flexible when it came to dealing with my college timetable and so on.

Overall, it was an absolutely woeful experience and although its definitely left a bad taste in my mouth when it comes to the base level of customer service, I have not lost all hope in the company and I am totally satisfied with the outcome.

Time · 14-02-2016 2:55am

Ryuzaki wrote: »

So I figured I should post some sort of conclusion to this whole ordeal.

I went through with the small claims court and got the very first case for the year of 2016. Apple didn't respond straight away or within the 15 day time period or whatever it was but they did eventually after a bit of poking and prodding from Cork's Small Claims Court.

I got two responses, a call from a lady in the execuitive relations department and a letter of defence from the legal team based in Apples UK offices or something.

After speaking on the phone and dealing with this lady for a while they offered a like for like replacement. I agreed to settle with the IF they gave me a written guarantee that if the rattle happened again during the warranty period then I would be entitled to a full cash refund.

This request was passed by her through to the legal department and was denied. I told her that I was going to just take it to the courts and she rang me one last time to "Discuss it one last time before it comes to that". She told me that it would be a brand new, not refurbished model and although she couldn't give the written guarantee, I would still be able to deal with her directly if any problems arose in future as she had my details. I politely declined as I didn't want to get the same laptop only for the original problem to persist.

She said as a final note, she could offer me and upgrade to the same model laptop with more memory. This still although a kind gesture did not really solve anything as it would still in essence be the same laptop. She asked if she could just send me an email to confirm that the upgrade was offered and to let me review the offer and that was fine.

Upon opening the email I was presented with two options. My current 13" Retina Model but with 256GB of memory

or

The 15" Pro base model with literally double most of the specs and so on.

I agreed to settle with the upgrade instead of going to court and I have to be honest and say once it got to this stage, the staff I was dealing with literally could not have been any nicer to me. They were absolutely lovely and polite and they were so accommodating / flexible when it came to dealing with my college timetable and so on.

Overall, it was an absolutely woeful experience and although its definitely left a bad taste in my mouth when it comes to the base level of customer service, I have not lost all hope in the company and I am totally satisfied with the outcome.

Glad to see you got sorted in the end, it shouldn't have had to go so far but you stuck up for your rights and got a good result, so well done.

goz83 · 14-02-2016 10:37pm

Good result. Glad it worked out.

Come to think of it...my iPhone 6 has a rattling logo :pac:

WARNING - Be careful buying from Apple Ireland. Also - Advice desperately needed

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