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From Climategate to Denialgate

  • 17-02-2012 11:26am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    The US' Heartland Institute, a conservative/libertarian thinktank, is in a little spot of PR bother after internal documents (all but one verified, the unverified one containing information repeated in the others) show their network of climate denial funding:
    ASSUMING they are substantially authentic, the trove of confidential documents from the Heartland Institute, a libertarian think tank based in Chicago, leaked to the blogosphere on February 14th provide an interesting view of one of Americas more prominent agents of climate-change scepticism.

    The documents were first published on the DeSmogBlog, which claimed to have got them from a Heartland insider. They have since been gleefully scoured by various online newspapers and bloggers, including the Carbon Brief, which have highlighted the following alleged revelations.

    • The Heartland Institute provides $300,000 a year in stipends to the climate-sceptical Nongovernmental International Panel on Climate Change (NIPCC), apparently to help it question and counter the conclusions of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. The NIPCC, which holds regular shindigs for sceptical scientists in New York and Washington, claims to be an international panel of nongovernment scientists and scholars who have come together to understand the causes and consequences of climate change.

    • The Heartland Institute is considering paying a sometime consultant for the Department of Energy up to $100,000 a year to produce teaching materials designed to spread climate-change scepticism. David Wojick is a consultant with the Office of Scientific and Technical Information at the department in the area of information and communication science. He was allegedly hired to write modules, for $5,000 apiece, that could fit into the existing science curriculum in such a way as to stress doubts over the basic verities of climate science.

    On February 15th the Heartland Institute claimed that, of eight allegedly leaked documents, one was a fake and the others had been obtained through deception. It did not dispute the authenticity of the remaining seven documents, but said it was still looking into whether they might have been “altered”. Meanwhile the gleeful greens said they were sticking to their story. They noted that the institute’s plans for a sceptical curriculum were also mentioned in its allegedly leaked budget document and had been confirmed by Mr Wojick. Similarly, the budget document confirmed the institute’s donations to the NIPCC and other sceptical scientists.

    BBC: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-17048991

    That well-known liberal outlet, The Economist: http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2012/02/climate-change-scepticism

    Desmogblog: http://www.desmogblog.com/heartland-institute-exposed-internal-documents-unmask-heart-climate-denial-machine

    Looking at some of the places this has been reported online, it's interesting to see a little army of commenters swinging into action with well-crafted PR comebacks, which attempt to make the debate about the unverified document, or downplay the incident entirely.

    cordially,
    Scofflaw


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    Scofflaw wrote: »
    Looking at some of the places this has been reported online, it's interesting to see a little army of commenters swinging into action with well-crafted PR comebacks, which attempt to make the debate about the unverified document, or downplay the incident entirely.

    cordially,
    Scofflaw

    It's one of the odd things about climate change, most conspiracy theorists don't believe in it. Yet it's often these 'Institutes' with dubious funding, or funding from business that say it's not happening. It's in the interests of many corporations that it's not happening. I think this is probably a master-stroke of PR in casting so much doubt in it that even the CT's go against their normal grain.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,920 ✭✭✭Einhard


    I'm slightly confused. I read the articles hoping to find something which would completely discredit the Heartland Institue and thus deal a blow to climate sceptics, but instead they show a think tank receiving money from like-minded individuals, and then funnelling that money towards research and campaigns which validates its point of view.

    Isn't that what all think tanks do?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,334 ✭✭✭RichieC


    Tip of the iceberg.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,555 ✭✭✭Kinski


    Einhard wrote: »
    I'm slightly confused. I read the articles hoping to find something which would completely discredit the Heartland Institue and thus deal a blow to climate sceptics, but instead they show a think tank receiving money from like-minded individuals, and then funnelling that money towards research and campaigns which validates its point of view.

    Isn't that what all think tanks do?

    Firstly, a campaign can't "validate" a point-of-view. Secondly, the suspicion about such think-tanks is that they are not funding disinterested research which aims to develop our understanding of these phenomena, but are actually funding research with consciously built-in biases designed to reinforce the positions which the think-tanks already adhere to.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    It does not take rocket science to face the facts that climate change is happening and will continue to happen. On a simple level alone man produces car, factory and other industrial emissions that feed into the atmosphere, at amounts that are alien to the order of the natural world, and even the most optimistic person would have to admit the balance is tilted. No matter those in denial can carry on with their delusions and prefer to obfuscate reality.


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,659 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manach


    On the main issue, whilst some can disargree with the agenda behind the Think-tank, it is pursuing a legal and legitimate aim in attempting to pursuade policy makers - akin to 1001 other such think-tanks. If the policy that it is championing is as harmful as being suggested, then it would be a simple matter for opposing forums to discredit it. Instead, having been subject to this invasion of privacy, grants them free publicity and makes them seem the victim of underhanded dealings. Thus giving their agenda a boost.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    Einhard wrote: »
    I'm slightly confused. I read the articles hoping to find something which would completely discredit the Heartland Institue and thus deal a blow to climate sceptics, but instead they show a think tank receiving money from like-minded individuals, and then funnelling that money towards research and campaigns which validates its point of view.

    Isn't that what all think tanks do?

    I read the links too and came to the same conclusion. I thought I was missing something.

    It seems a far cry from the allegations made in Climategate which I thought were around the manipulation of data. Maybe I am wrong.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,334 ✭✭✭RichieC


    Manach wrote: »
    On the main issue, whilst some can disargree with the agenda behind the Think-tank, it is pursuing a legal and legitimate aim in attempting to pursuade policy makers - akin to 1001 other such think-tanks. If the policy that it is championing is as harmful as being suggested, then it would be a simple matter for opposing forums to discredit it. Instead, having been subject to this invasion of privacy, grants them free publicity and makes them seem the victim of underhanded dealings. Thus giving their agenda a boost.

    How are advocacy groups meant to counter the vast wealth behind the oil and petrochemical industries?

    It's an unfair battle.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,920 ✭✭✭Einhard


    Kinski wrote: »
    Firstly, a campaign can't "validate" a point-of-view. Secondly, the suspicion about such think-tanks is that they are not funding disinterested research which aims to develop our understanding of these phenomena, but are actually funding research with consciously built-in biases designed to reinforce the positions which the think-tanks already adhere to.

    Well validate might have been an incorrect choice of word but I don't think it detracts from my point.

    Also, I don't think anyone was under any illusion as to the intentions of groups such as Heartland.
    RichieC wrote: »
    How are advocacy groups meant to counter the vast wealth behind the oil and petrochemical industries?

    It's an unfair battle.

    That's true. It is an unfair battle, but one which the likes of Heartland appear to be losing.

    That said though, the articles aren't exactly shocking in what the reveal.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,334 ✭✭✭RichieC


    Einhard wrote: »
    That said though, the articles aren't exactly shocking in what the reveal.

    Attempting to influence kids school curriculums with propaganda isn't shocking to you?

    It is truly a new day.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,920 ✭✭✭Einhard


    RichieC wrote: »
    Attempting to influence kids school curriculums with propaganda isn't shocking to you?

    It is truly a new day.

    Eh no. The fact that there are groups who seek to do such things isn't exactly shocking to me. Perhaps I'm just more cynical than you.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,555 ✭✭✭Kinski


    Einhard wrote: »
    I don't think anyone was under any illusion as to the intentions of groups such as Heartland.

    No, but this probably isn't how they want people to see them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,920 ✭✭✭Einhard


    Kinski wrote: »
    No, but this probably isn't how they want people to see them.

    True. But that doesn't change my point that it's not exactly a startling revelation.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    Originally Posted by RichieC
    Attempting to influence kids school curriculums with propaganda isn't shocking to you?

    It is truly a new day.


    Einhard wrote: »
    Eh no. The fact that there are groups who seek to do such things isn't exactly shocking to me. Perhaps I'm just more cynical than you.

    The irony though, is that the very children who they try to influence in their curricula will have to live and deal with the consequences of global warming.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,659 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manach


    Yes, there is climate change. There always has been via natural sources. However the amount that human activity has contributed (while real) to this change, is still subject to debate. Certain ex-government parties were always quick to use climate change as a reason for many of their actions, so introduces an element of political skepticism about the reasoning behind a class of climate change advocates.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    Manach wrote: »
    Yes, there is climate change. There always has been via natural sources. However the amount that human activity has contributed (while real) to this change, is still subject to debate. Certain ex-government parties were always quick to use climate change as a reason for many of their actions, so introduces an element of political skepticism about the reasoning behind a class of climate change advocates.

    Yes indeed, there has always been natural factors, but only the naive would not accept that the massive man made factors will not cause any effect. On probability alone, the man made factors have tipped the natural balance. The mind boggles as to where those in denial think all the emissions are going, especially as we exist in a giant greenhouse, where the laws of conservation of energy exist.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,798 ✭✭✭karma_


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    It hardly matters if the sum is 400 thousand or 400 million, it's wrong.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,798 ✭✭✭karma_


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.


    These think tanks and their backers are not happy to actually pollute the planet and contributing to climate change, they actively attempt to subvert and pollute science using propaganda.

    Scepticism is a healthy thing, especially in science, but if they are really convinced that mans influence on climate change is negligible then they should investigative it scientifically and get it peer reviewed, anything less than that is just abut as scummy as it gets, considering it's done in the pursuit of profit.


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,659 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manach


    Mr.Micro wrote: »
    Yes indeed, there has always been natural factors, but only the naive would not accept that the massive man made factors will not cause any effect. On probability alone, the man made factors have tipped the natural balance. The mind boggles as to where those in denial think all the emissions are going, especially as we exist in a giant greenhouse, where the laws of conservation of energy exist.
    My reckoning, is that even if the human impact is minimum (say 1% of natural) it might have a disproporinate effect. An analogy would be a clockwork time, which if the spring is stressed at the wrong time and wrong place would have dire consequences - a black swan event. Then again, I'm naturally pessimistic.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,856 ✭✭✭Valmont


    karma_ wrote: »
    Scepticism is a healthy thing, especially in science, but if they are really convinced that mans influence on climate change is negligible then they should investigative it scientifically and get it peer reviewed, anything less than that is just abut as scummy as it gets, considering it's done in the pursuit of profit.
    I suppose then that An Inconvenient Truth is about as scummy as it gets too? The New Scientist's crusade against "deniers"? They even had a special issue trying to untangle the psychological problems behind such irrational behaviour as climate change skepticism; please.

    If skepticism is healthy--and indeed it is integral to scientific progress--then why is it constantly ridiculed? We have a new breed of scientist simply substituting skeptic with denier in an attempt to simply discredit certain positions. Now that is dishonest science.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,798 ✭✭✭karma_


    Valmont wrote: »
    I suppose then that An Inconvenient Truth is about as scummy as it gets too? The New Scientist's crusade against "deniers"? They even had a special issue trying to untangle the psychological problems behind such irrational behaviour as climate change skepticism; please.

    If skepticism is healthy--and indeed it is integral to scientific progress--then why is it constantly ridiculed? We have a new breed of scientist simply substituting skeptic with denier in an attempt to simply discredit certain positions. Now that is dishonest science.

    Here's a challenge for you, go and show us all one piece of *peer reviewed scientific evidence that backs up the claims that humans have no impact on climate change.

    Scepticism is healthy, it's encouraged in science, what's ridiculed is the bastardising of science that 'deniers' use, in the form of opinion, blogs and propaganda which is carried out without the evidence. Dishonest indeed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,934 ✭✭✭20Cent


    I suppose this is the kind of thing that we suspect happens but are still surprised when it comes out in the open. Seems that this think tank has non profit status so would have tax privileges also. That needs to be seriously looked at because if they are the propaganda wing of the energy industry then it isn't really non-profit. They don't even need to prove anything just muddy the waters. The idea of them influencing school curriculum is shocking. All donors etc should be published and any papers produced should have their sponsors on them so people can evaluate them properly.

    There has been a lot of this type of behaviour exposed recently hopefully that by shining a light on this stuff corporations will find that supporting this it will hit their share prices and sales. I wonder will their sponsors be contributing next year. Fortunately there is an upsurge in awareness about issues like this at the moment. The Koch brother in Wisconsin, the pizza is a vegetable story! and of course the close ties of Wall St and government. Using money to usurp democracy a bit of what we would have to look forward to if these "libertarians" ever got power.

    Lucky we still have the internet to counter such propaganda but even that is under attack now.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,334 ✭✭✭RichieC


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    "no wrong doing" -climategate "scandal"- two separate investigations. It was at that point the US "news media" promptly dropped the story.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,555 ✭✭✭Kinski


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    I'm sure schoolchildren using these proposed classroom materials will be made fully aware of the Heartland Institute's ideological bent: "Today's lesson is brought to you by the letter B, the number 2, and a man-made climate-change denying, free-market thinktank."


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    The important points would be that the Institute, which is quite an important lobbyist in the US debate on climate change, isn't doing science, isn't funding research - it's funding PR. So this point:
    You do realize that the mission of the Heartland Institute is not to do disinterested research, but to "discover, develop, and promote free-market solutions to social and economic problems"? It can legitimately be accused of having a "consciously built-in bias" designed to reinforce its pro-free-market position — but I don't think anyone was ever in doubt about that.

    In fact, the people who the Heartland Institute funds do claim to be disinterested. The implication of these releases is that their funding is PR funding from interested parties through an interested "think tank".

    Is that important? Yes - after all, how can there be a "scientific debate" if one side is rather obviously just doing paid PR work on behalf of companies whose financial interests would be impacted by doing something about climate change?

    And sure, maybe nobody's surprised by HI's position or activities - although the schools programme is pretty appalling - but the climate change opposition have always claimed they're just, you know, neutral parties standing up for the truth, rather than PR-company-funded marketing shills. And this kind of blows that posture away. It also blows away the HI's claim to qualify for tax exempt status by virtue of being a public interest service - this is not public interest, but private PR.

    Nor is there any attempt to fund research, or any evidence that HI have access to, or even any interest in, any contrary evidence - there is nothing, nothing at all, in their documents which suggests they have anything that contradicts the scientific consensus on climate change. Everything they're doing, everything they're funding, is PR aimed at creating uncertainty, at creating the appearance of a debate without actually doing anything to support such a debate.

    What we're being shown here is the internal workings of an influential opponent of action on climate change, and it exposes the fact that they have no actual counter-argument, no actual contrary research, and no reason to oppose climate change other than they can get paid to defend the interests of businesses and wealthy individuals by doing so.

    As a reason for helping delay implementation of measures that might make a difference of misery to millions of people, it's somewhat less than heart-warming.

    cordially,
    Scofflaw


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,856 ✭✭✭Valmont


    karma_ wrote: »
    Here's a challenge for you, go and show us all one piece of *peer reviewed scientific evidence that backs up the claims that humans have no impact on climate change.
    Peer reviewed science isn't as straight forward as "does it or doesn't it" in any matter, be it climate change or cognitive psychology so I think you misunderstand the process. There are many legitimate questions to be asked of the climate change lobby (or religion or whatever they call themselves): for example, shouldn't we expect more results demonstrating evidence for AGW when saying anything to the contrary would seriously damage one's career? Ability to gain funding for research?

    What about Benny Peiser's objection to Naomi Oreskes paper on the peer-reviewed evidence for and against? What about the fact that Nature refused to publish his letter?

    There is so much fishiness going on with the AGW lobby, their funding, their journals, and their emails, that any self-respecting scientist would be mad not to dig deeper.
    karma_ wrote: »
    Scepticism is healthy, it's encouraged in science, what's ridiculed is the bastardising of science that 'deniers' use, in the form of opinion, blogs and propaganda which is carried out without the evidence. Dishonest indeed.
    You say it's healthy but I'm guessing my refusal to spout the party line when referencing one case of a "skeptic" questioning the evidence as above, will end up with me being lumped in with the bastardly dishonest bloggers.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,856 ✭✭✭Valmont


    Scofflaw wrote: »
    As a reason for helping delay implementation of measures that might make a difference of misery to millions of people, it's somewhat less than heart-warming.
    Ha! Just like the fifty million climate refugees who didn't appear in 2010? When should we expect the next batch of non-existent millions to vanish?


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