General UFC Chit Chat/News

El Guapo! · 18-03-2013 10:45pm

The last fight was so one-sided, I'm still struggling to figure out was Cain really that good, or was JDS really that bad.
At the time, I was thinking there must be something wrong with JDS. Or an adrenaline dump or something.
But as I said before, I think JDS has been a tad overrated for a while now and I think Cain is in a different league to him. I can't see another fight between them ending any different to the last one.

Be like Nutella · 18-03-2013 10:52pm

I don't think the first fight was anything less than an honest TKO... whether or not Cain was 100% that didn't affect that particular TKO I don't accept the unfit theory.

Mr. Manager · 18-03-2013 10:59pm

I think JDS seriously underestimated Cains punching ability and before he had a chance to find his range he took that devastating right hand that had him fúcked for the rest of the fight.

Mellor · 18-03-2013 11:03pm

Be like Nutella wrote: »

I don't think the first fight was anything less than an honest TKO... whether or not Cain was 100% that didn't affect that particular TKO I don't accept the unfit theory.

He caught him and knocked him down and then swarmed him ok the ground.
No matter how good you think his boxing is you have to admit that he had a bit if luck on his side. Is a lucky TKO still a TKO? Of course.
After that win everyone made out that JDS was almost unbeatable. But in reality, as you just said, Cain was still the superior fighter all round. I've no idea how people forgot about Cain so easily, especially after the Bigfoot fight. Ignore Cain's single loss for a second and his record is hugely impressive, he isn't exactly short on KO power himself either.

MrStuffins · 18-03-2013 11:07pm

The JDS hype train was out of control. I said it on a dozen occasions at the time, JDS hadn't really done much to deserve the "unbeatable tag he was given. The outcome of the second Cain fight was ALWAYS going to be how it was gonna go down.

He's still a beast though. Probably No. 2 HW around. But the gap between Cain and the rest is pretty big.

Be like Nutella · 18-03-2013 11:23pm

My reason for being on the JDS train is the same as it is now - he is the best HW puncher around. Cain can do all the different things better.. EXCEPT punching. He has good power and great all-round striking but not as good at finding the button as JDS and it is simply this reason JDS can finish Cain.

It wasn't a lucky TKO IMO he will always throw good punches early in fights and if you move into them or duck under them and get clipped that's all part of it. Very very rarely in reality do guys hit exactly where their brains are telling them (Silva excluded) to throw the punch. Most of MMA knockouts occur mid-flurry or mid-movement, mid-combo. It's like a beautiful volley in soccer - most of the time there's an element of hit and hope but with more skill/technique comes more likelihood of success and with JDS punching skill level and associated footwork he puts himself in a better position to knock you or TKO you by hitting you once or twice ... than anybody else in the business, Cain included. So when they fight again and they will, very very likely, JDS will be in exactly the same situation as he's been in with everybody he's KO'd/TKO'd, as I say, for the first 2 rounds - after that his chances slip because of Cain's unbeatable work rate and fight IQ. And it won't take Cain to make a mistake to get KO'd, JDS doesn't need him to make a mistake. He can knock anyone out hence I'm still aboard the JDS train. If Cain beats him again or finishes him with strikes or whatever I'll get off at the next station and buy a one way ticket on the the Cain train.

JJayoo · 19-03-2013 12:29am

Cereal Rapist wrote: »

I think JDS seriously underestimated Cains punching ability and before he had a chance to find his range he took that devastating right hand that had him fúcked for the rest of the fight.

Would agree. JDS also had his hands down from the very beginning as if he was only expecting Cian to shoot and not stand with him. Cian is like a vicious GSP.

JJayoo · 19-03-2013 12:43am

LOL

Mellor · 19-03-2013 12:56am

Be like Nutella wrote: »

Cain can do all the different things better.. EXCEPT punching. He has good power and great all-round striking but not as good at finding the button as JDS and it is simply this reason JDS can finish Cain.

Don't understand this point. Cain has a higher TKO finish rate than JDS.

It wasn't a lucky TKO IMO he will always throw good punches early in fights and if you move into them or duck under them and get clipped that's all part of it.

My point was that any TKO in the first flurry of strikes requires a bit if luck - I'm not trying to detract from JDS or say it was only a punchers chance. I simply mean that the first fight tells us almost nothing about the better fighter imo

Be like Nutella · 19-03-2013 1:30am

nah JDS is a better puncher I don't think you'll get too many people agreeing that Cain is a better puncher than JDS. Cain is a great striker too don't get me wrong but he's not as good at knockin people out no way. Finish rate sminish rate I'm just saying what is generally accepted that Junior Dos Santos is a better boxer. I am not denigrating Cain with that statement I'm simply saying JDS can knock Cain out much easier than visa versa... if you believe otherwise we'll agree to disagree so.

Cain as I said has a better 'game' but game don't mean sh1t when you get rocked in the first round as JDS is easily capable of doing to Cain in the inevitable rubber match, just like he did in the first match. Again SHOULD the fight go past 2, 3 rounds and both guys are relatively undamaged - Cain is the big favorite.

It's exactly the same as considering Big Rig and GSP. GSP has a better game fact, but if Big Rig hits him it's most likely over. The difference with my opinion on this one is that I consider JDS's boxing skill which includes footwork and technique way above Big Rigs boxing skill (even though the guy throws a really great left).

I guess we'll see eh... believe me if it goes to round 3 or 4 I'll be the first one to write off JDS. Saying that - Cain's bad night ended bad for him in 2 mins fair enough, bit of luck etc whichever way you want to view it, but similarly Cain caught HIM in match 2 and that ruined him for the rest of the fight so Cain schooled him in every dept - except he didn't finish him!!! So there are two sides to each point. Another schooling by Cain and he's the king obviously but another 1/2/3/4 min knock out by JDS - boom Cain is down and the fight over - what do we say then? more luck? If JDS knocks him out cold first minute of round 1 he's the better fighter in my book IMO in my opinion as I see it etc choo choooooo all aboard the JDS train : )

unknown13 · 19-03-2013 1:34am

Be like Nutella wrote: »

nah JDS is a better puncher I don't think you'll get too many people agreeing that Cain is a better puncher than JDS. Cain is a great striker too don't get me wrong but he's not as good at knockin people out no way. Finish rate sminish rate I'm just saying what is generally accepted that Junior Dos Santos is a better boxer. I am not denigrating Cain with that statement I'm simply saying JDS can knock Cain out much easier than visa versa... if you believe otherwise we'll agree to disagree so.

Cain stops fighters he doesn't knock them out.

Mellor · 19-03-2013 2:00am

Be like Nutella wrote: »

nah JDS is a better puncher I don't think you'll get too many people agreeing that Cain is a better puncher than JDS. Cain is a great striker too don't get me wrong but he's not as good at knockin people out no way. Finish rate sminish rate I'm just saying what is generally accepted that Junior Dos Santos is a better boxer. I am not denigrating Cain with that statement I'm simply saying JDS can knock Cain out much easier than visa versa... if you believe otherwise we'll agree to disagree so.

I agree than JDS is a better boxer, in terms of movement, punching etc. Cain isn't a boxer though (I differentiate between boxing and punching), but he's still a pretty hard hitting striker. I think they both are capable of hitting, dropping, and finishing any fighter in the HW division bar prehaps Hunt (who has the best chin in all combat sports imo)

OrgasmicBaz · 20-03-2013 12:00pm

Mellor wrote: »

I agree than JDS is a better boxer, in terms of movement, punching etc. Cain isn't a boxer though (I differentiate between boxing and punching), but he's still a pretty hard hitting striker. I think they both are capable of hitting, dropping, and finishing any fighter in the HW division bar prehaps Hunt (who has the best chin in all combat sports imo)

Him or Nelson for the best chin, or maybe Nelson has no chin under that beard :pac:

preddy · 20-03-2013 12:08pm

Anyone else having little interest in seeing Bigfoot fighting Cain again after the last mauling Cain gave him?

Mellor · 20-03-2013 12:26pm

OrgasmicBaz wrote: »

Him or Nelson for the best chin, or maybe Nelson has no chin under that beard :pac:

I think Arlofski knocked out Nelson early in his career. It was mentioned when he was a contestant on TUF.

OrgasmicBaz · 20-03-2013 1:31pm

Mellor wrote: »

I think Arlofski knocked out Nelson early in his career. It was mentioned when he was a contestant on TUF.

Yeah thats true, i think Hunt was also knocked out by Melvin Manhoef, could be wrong

But both guys are very durable

Mr. CooL ICE · 20-03-2013 2:13pm

Mellor wrote: »

I think Arlofski knocked out Nelson early in his career.

Aye, I remember being shocked at the irony of it. One of the strongest chins in MMA KO'd by one of the weakest

Mellor · 20-03-2013 2:26pm

OrgasmicBaz wrote: »

Yeah thats true, I think Hunt was also knocked out by Melvin Manhoef, could be wrong

But both guys are very durable

Apparently he was, didn't know that. For some reason I thiughtbhevhad never been KO'd.

Ush1 · 20-03-2013 3:07pm

I'm sure I can remember Cro Cop nearly decapitating him with head kicks in pride. Hunt wasn't out but he was as close as humanly possible without sleeping.

JJayoo · 20-03-2013 3:38pm

OrgasmicBaz wrote: »

Him or Nelson for the best chin, or maybe Nelson has no chin under that beard :pac:

After watching JDS and Werdum smash Nelson's head in I'm not so sure that his chin is such an attribute when we consider his long term health. I would hate to see him come up against Cian for 5 rounds

MrStuffins · 20-03-2013 3:42pm

Mellor wrote: »

I think Arlofski knocked out Nelson early in his career. It was mentioned when he was a contestant on TUF.

I remember that fight. It was a joke.

It was in Elite XC and Nelson had taken down Arlovski and gotten to side control. When he did, the ref stood them up. It was a massive joke.

Word was, Gary Shaw had told the ref to stand him up if that happened (as he had with most of the refs in Elite XC.... how many listened? at least a couple).

weemcd · 20-03-2013 5:38pm

preddy wrote: »

Anyone else having little interest in seeing Bigfoot fighting Cain again after the last mauling Cain gave him?

Nothing but respect for Bigfoot, he is an ambassador for the sport, but no, I've no interest in seeing him in with Cain so soon, that first fight would be what I would describe as a mauling

scudzilla · 20-03-2013 7:32pm

MrStuffins wrote: »

I remember that fight. It was a joke.

It was in Elite XC and Nelson had taken down Arlovski and gotten to side control. When he did, the ref stood them up. It was a massive joke.

Word was, Gary Shaw had told the ref to stand him up if that happened (as he had with most of the refs in Elite XC.... how many listened? at least a couple).

Hahaha, Gary Shaw, what a clown that guy was

My funniest moment of him was when Kimbo, his Golden Goose, was KO'd by Seth Petruzelli, Shaw was clearly at side of cage goin fcukin bananas!!

unknown13 · 20-03-2013 8:00pm

MrStuffins wrote: »

I remember that fight. It was a joke.

It was in Elite XC and Nelson had taken down Arlovski and gotten to side control. When he did, the ref stood them up. It was a massive joke.

Word was, Gary Shaw had told the ref to stand him up if that happened (as he had with most of the refs in Elite XC.... how many listened? at least a couple).

Gary Shaw was such a scumbag.

Remember the Thompson / Kimbo fight. Kimbo was getting pounded on and the fight wasn't stop, then Kimbo wins by extremely premature stoppage.

adamski8 · 20-03-2013 10:23pm

scudzilla wrote: »

Hahaha, Gary Shaw, what a clown that guy was

My funniest moment of him was when Kimbo, his Golden Goose, was KO'd by Seth Petruzelli, Shaw was clearly at side of cage goin fcukin bananas!!

Was it really? Bigfoot got a cut early which completly obscured his vision, how hard is it to maul a blind guy?

TrafficBug · 21-03-2013 5:00pm

Does anyone know the back-round info, as to why the UFC have taken back Nate the great for UFC 158? I thought Dana White said he will never be back for failing drug test in 2010..

Ush1 · 21-03-2013 5:54pm

TrafficBug wrote: »

Does anyone know the back-round info, as to why the UFC have taken back Nate the great for UFC 158? I thought Dana White said he will never be back for failing drug test in 2010..

I'd say because he knocked out (undefeated at the time)Tyron Woodley in impressive fashion. Then as far as I know, the UFC did all the deals with the Strikeforce guys and had the last show where Nate wasn't so impressive but I'm guessing he was already signed.

Mellor · 22-03-2013 12:57pm

TrafficBug wrote: »

Does anyone know the back-round info, as to why the UFC have taken back Nate the great for UFC 158? I thought Dana White said he will never be back for failing drug test in 2010..

It wasn't a simple as a failed drug test. He breached the conditions of his TRT TUE.

But basically, he's back because he was contracted by Strikeforce, which merged with the UFC this year.

MrStuffins · 22-03-2013 1:01pm

TrafficBug wrote: »

Does anyone know the back-round info, as to why the UFC have taken back Nate the great for UFC 158? I thought Dana White said he will never be back for failing drug test in 2010..

Also, Dana has said before that he really likes Marquart and he's one of the nicest guys he knows. After he said he'd "never" fight int he UFC again, he took it back.

Dana White contradicts himself more than The Bible. He loses the rag says things, re considers and changes his mind all the time.

PerrinV2 · 22-03-2013 1:13pm

Think I saw it somewhere the other day but it was Belfort vs Rockhold.
It it me or is Victor fighting alot these days

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