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M7 - Naas/Newbridge Bypass Upgrade [Junction 9a now open]

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 5,272 ✭✭✭Deedsie


    Bray Head wrote: »
    Even Ireland's busiest motorways are only ever busy to the point of slowing down traffic about 3 hours a day, 5 days a week (match days and festivals too of course). This is less than 10% of the hours in the week.

    Tolling could play a very useful role in spreading some of this excess demand to times when the network is less busy.

    People who are then prepared to pay a toll to travel at peak times will also get a better product, namely a quicker journey.

    People are arguing like they were assigned both a house and a place of work at birth with no potential to change. This is argument is fallacious. Most people move house several times during their life and their place of work many more times. There is a large element of personal choice involved in all of these decisions.

    As a student I had a 3-hour round trip commute. I hated it and resolved never to do it again. Over the years I've paid well above average in housing costs but I've been happy to do so because I really dislike long commutes.

    Exactly, a large element of personal choice. But if you choose to live in Nass and work in Sandyford for example it is a bit unreasonable to blame the government for not providing direct transport between the two locations? I wish we had a more interconnected network but people can be extremely unrealistic in their expectations of what the government can actually provide.


  • Registered Users Posts: 892 ✭✭✭Bray Head


    Public transport is a bit of a red herring in this argument.

    It only provides transport for a high % of people in very large, quite dense cities like London or Paris.

    I would like public transport to increase its modal share but in reality there is a a natural limit. Ireland has both low average population density and high population dispersion. Both are the enemy of public transport. Even inner Dublin is full of two-storey dwellings and has large open spaces. The car is always going to account for the majority of commuting activity in Ireland.

    What I am arguing for is better use of tolls to manage demand on the motorways we already have.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,096 ✭✭✭pad199207


    I've heard recently that funding is going to be announced by the government for this project in the coming months!


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,257 ✭✭✭SoupyNorman


    pad199207 wrote: »
    I've heard recently that funding is going to be announced by the government for this project in the coming months!

    Where did you hear this pray tell?


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,096 ✭✭✭pad199207


    Where did you hear this pray tell?

    I don't know how reputable the source is but it does look and sound genuine...

    http://www.kildarenow.com/news/end-in-sight-for-m7-bottleneck-between-naas-and-newbridge/42231


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,257 ✭✭✭SoupyNorman


    pad199207 wrote: »
    I don't know how reputable the source is but it does look and sound genuine...

    http://www.kildarenow.com/news/end-in-sight-for-m7-bottleneck-between-naas-and-newbridge/42231


    Look, we can only hope.

    It looks like a must though as the N7 is the 2nd busiest road in the country (and getting busier)


  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ Theodore Pitiful Tea


    Question is if they do upgrade it will they upgrade to take today's traffic or will it be the usual , in 15 years it will be at a standstill again ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,833 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    Question is if they do upgrade it will they upgrade to take today's traffic or will it be the usual , in 15 years it will be at a standstill again ?
    far more money to be made, doing the bare minimum job. They can start all over again in about a decade...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 313 ✭✭gilly0512


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    far more money to be made, doing the bare minimum job. They can start all over again in about a decade...

    I would presume that they will just have it at three lanes each way to Junction 11, which in fairness I think most of us would happily take at the moment. However this plan was also initially supposed to include a bypass of Sallins with a new junction in or around the new Kerry premises, I wonder will this also be included? Finally how long should this project take, you would think that this is not a major road upgrade, and you would be expecting a year at most, although if it includes a bypass of Sallins with a new junction, we're probably looking at 18 months. I also live in fear that they would be stupid enough to stick a toll on this new section of road, although hopefully they will have the sense to see that putting a toll on this road would just drive people back into Naas & Newbridge to avoid the toll.


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 12,472 Mod ✭✭✭✭JupiterKid


    When the Naas Bypass was being constructed in the early 1980s there was talk of tolling the road but it never happened. I can't see this road ever being tolled.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 861 ✭✭✭regedit


    gilly2308 wrote: »
    I would presume that they will just have it at three lanes each way to Junction 11, which in fairness I think most of us would happily take at the moment. However this plan was also initially supposed to include a bypass of Sallins with a new junction in or around the new Kerry premises, I wonder will this also be included? Finally how long should this project take, you would think that this is not a major road upgrade, and you would be expecting a year at most, although if it includes a bypass of Sallins with a new junction, we're probably looking at 18 months. I also live in fear that they would be stupid enough to stick a toll on this new section of road, although hopefully they will have the sense to see that putting a toll on this road would just drive people back into Naas & Newbridge to avoid the toll.

    Some 5-6 years ago, the section from Naas toward Newbridge was resurfaced and the two lanes in place plus hard shoulder seem quite wide. Therefore, I doubt it will take them that long. The proposed (Sallins) interchange is just before the Kerry group as you're driving on the M7 toward Newbridge.
    Regarding the toll, I find it difficult to digest that they could toll that section as there's a toll less than 50 km further at Portlaoise.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,257 ✭✭✭SoupyNorman


    regedit wrote: »
    Regarding the toll, I find it difficult to digest that they could toll that section as there's a toll less than 50 km further at Portlaoise.


    Also, that'd make it 4 tolls from Dublin Airport to Cork?


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,811 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    3 lanes to the Waterford junction, closing the Naas South junction and rebuilding it, and a link road including the Sallins Bypass are all on the table with this one.

    Its an online upgrade, so 2+ years is a reasonable timeframe. It'll be torture for 2 years.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,534 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    Might be as well at this stage to do 3 lanes to Kildare. Doubt it would cost much more.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,318 ✭✭✭✭Dial Hard


    corktina wrote:
    The whole problem is the result of years of allowing people to just sit into a car without lessons or a proper license.

    Even those who did have lessons and sat the test are essentially unleashed onto motorways without ever having been taught how to drive on them. It's utter lunacy.


  • Registered Users Posts: 861 ✭✭✭regedit


    3 lanes to the Waterford junction, closing the Naas South junction and rebuilding it, and a link road including the Sallins Bypass are all on the table with this one.

    Its an online upgrade, so 2+ years is a reasonable timeframe. It'll be torture for 2 years.
    Any source for these claims Chris?
    It will take a long time to rebuild Naas South junction


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,272 ✭✭✭Deedsie


    Might be as well at this stage to do 3 lanes to Kildare. Doubt it would cost much more.

    They have only secured planning permission from Naas as far as Newbridge?


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,272 ✭✭✭Deedsie


    regedit wrote: »
    Any source for these claims Chris?
    It will take a long time to rebuild Naas South junction

    I thought I read 28 to 34 months construction phase in the planning application?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,534 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    Deedsie wrote: »
    They have only secured planning permission from Naas as far as Newbridge?

    Sadly true. They could always put in a secondary application. All it would take would be a small bit of earthworks and tarmac.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 313 ✭✭gilly0512


    Deedsie wrote: »
    I thought I read 28 to 34 months construction phase in the planning application?

    28 to 34 months seems an awful long time though, I know things have improved massively in this country in how long it takes to build motorways, but that seems a ridiculously long time, can't imagine it taking even half of that time in most other modern countries.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,272 ✭✭✭Deedsie


    gilly2308 wrote: »
    28 to 34 months seems an awful long time though, I know things have improved massively in this country in how long it takes to build motorways, but that seems a ridiculously long time, can't imagine it taking even half of that time in most other modern countries.

    It is the second busiest road in the country and during construction the builders will be required to maintain two lanes of traffic open in both directions between 6:00 to 22:00 everyday which will delay things. As with most modern countries Ireland's planning applications seem to always overestimate the length of the construction phase. Excluding the Nenagh to Limerick section of the M7 I can't think of any motorway construction phase that went on longer than the original estimate on the planning application.


  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ Theodore Pitiful Tea


    gilly2308 wrote: »
    can't imagine it taking even half of that time in most other modern countries.

    Ireland is still pretty backward and were Decades behind most of Europe in regard to infrastructure be it roads or public transport, subway, train service etc.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,272 ✭✭✭Deedsie


    Ireland is still pretty backward and were Decades behind most of Europe in regard to infrastructure be it roads or public transport, subway, train service etc.

    Public transport is poor but I don't see how you can call Ireland backward?




  • Deedsie wrote: »
    Public transport is poor but I don't see how you can call Ireland backward?
    Probably because more forward thinking countries are focusing more on public transport and spatial planning without a brown envelope culture screwing things up.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,272 ✭✭✭Deedsie


    Probably because more forward thinking countries are focusing more on public transport and spatial planning without a brown envelope culture screwing things up.

    In the thirty years from 1990 to 2020 the country will have set up the Luas and the interconnector, brought in the bike to work scheme and built cycling infrastructure, greenways etc throughout the country which has massively increased cyclist numbers, we will have built ~1000km of the highest standard interurban motorways throughout the country. Motorways tunnelled under the lee and Shannon, built a port tunnel in Dublin... We upgraded the train network and will have the Phoenix park tunnel back in operation next year. We built a new terminal in Dublin Airport and upgraded Shannon and Ireland west airport.

    Spatial planning is obviously the way all infrastructure development should be approached but it can be difficult for planners in Ireland as everyone knows our settlement patterns make it ridiculously difficult. The point I am making is that in my opinion backward is an unfair and self hating word. We might not be as developed as our neighbours or those on the continent but things have massively improved in a very short time. We did also go through the greatest financial crisis in our 94 year history.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,534 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    We built the new terminal at Cork Airport too. Pity it's going to waste.


  • Registered Users Posts: 33 tsofitch


    Deedsie wrote: »
    Public transport is poor

    You can say that again


  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ Theodore Pitiful Tea


    Deedsie wrote: »
    In the thirty years from 1990 to 2020 the country will have set up the Luas and the interconnector, brought in the bike to work scheme and built cycling infrastructure, greenways etc throughout the country which has massively increased cyclist numbers, we will have built ~1000km of the highest standard interurban motorways throughout the country. Motorways tunnelled under the lee and Shannon, built a port tunnel in Dublin... We upgraded the train network and will have the Phoenix park tunnel back in operation next year. We built a new terminal in Dublin Airport and upgraded Shannon and Ireland west airport.

    Spatial planning is obviously the way all infrastructure development should be approached but it can be difficult for planners in Ireland as everyone knows our settlement patterns make it ridiculously difficult. The point I am making is that in my opinion backward is an unfair and self hating word. We might not be as developed as our neighbours or those on the continent but things have massively improved in a very short time. We did also go through the greatest financial crisis in our 94 year history.

    We're still playing catchup , Dublin needs an underground badly, the Luas is too slow for me, it stops for traffic lights and for traffic, where in other countries it would run underground. Granted it's handy for those who live along the luas.

    Dublin has no possible way in or out apart from road.

    Cycle lanes ? are you serious ? you really need to go to Germany to see what a cycle lane is.

    What greenways ? we still haven't replanted a fraction of our natural forests, Ireland remains the "most" deforested land in the whole of the European continent with less than 1% of forest remain, we over farm we feed many times our population. Most of the land you can't cross without some psycho farmer coming out on his quad ! Fences and keep out all over the place.

    Our cycle lanes are shared with bus lanes with taxi's and buses with lamp posts and bus stops. Carlow Co Council made a cycle lane on the old N9 from the I.T out the Kilkenny road, wonderful cycle lane it is too , it's a white line in the hard shoulder with a bicycle painted on it :D. We have plenty of land to make cycle lanes away from the roads. A proper cycle lane doesn't have traffic next nor near it. We have plenty of crap narrow one way side streets in towns and cities that could become proper cycle paths.

    I love cycling in the German countryside, cycling on forest trails linking towns and villages.

    We have too many one off housing scattered unsustainable all over the Island throughout what should be the countryside and still allowed, big boom houses all over the countryside.

    Too many housing estates with tiny matchbox size houses that all look the same on top of each other in order to maximise the profit for each square meter. The planning regulations in Ireland are ridiculous.

    We still burn solid fuel for heating, the most unregulated and toxic form of fuel. Doesn't get much more backward than this, all the villages in Ireland that choke under clouds of coal smoke.

    I could go on but I haven't the time really, A lot I love about Ireland but a lot I don't.




  • Deedsie wrote: »
    In the thirty years from 1990 to 2020 the country will have set up the Luas and the interconnector, brought in the bike to work scheme and built cycling infrastructure, greenways etc throughout the country which has massively increased cyclist numbers, we will have built ~1000km of the highest standard interurban motorways throughout the country. Motorways tunnelled under the lee and Shannon, built a port tunnel in Dublin... We upgraded the train network and will have the Phoenix park tunnel back in operation next year. We built a new terminal in Dublin Airport and upgraded Shannon and Ireland west airport.

    Spatial planning is obviously the way all infrastructure development should be approached but it can be difficult for planners in Ireland as everyone knows our settlement patterns make it ridiculously difficult. The point I am making is that in my opinion backward is an unfair and self hating word. We might not be as developed as our neighbours or those on the continent but things have massively improved in a very short time. We did also go through the greatest financial crisis in our 94 year history.

    Yes I agree, but the Vested interests who paid to get inappropriate development approved; for example all the ghost estates and flats in remote rural towns. made our infrastructure issues far worse than they should be.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,272 ✭✭✭Deedsie


    We built the new terminal at Cork Airport too. Pity it's going to waste.

    Ya, there have been many improvements that rarely get appreciated or utilised unfortunately.


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