* Proposed New Junior Cert. Read Mod Warning Post #1 Before Posting**

spurious · 09-03-2015 11:45pm

You'd be tempted to put up a 'staff in a Dublin school discuss the pile of doodah that is the latest nonsense from the Department' tweet.

Icsics · 13-03-2015 7:05pm

This thread had gone worryingly quiet & even more worryingly, so have the Unions. I got an email 'invitation' today yo a 'Web

km79 · 13-03-2015 7:49pm

Icsics wrote: »

This thread had gone worryingly quiet & even more worryingly, so have the Unions. I got an email 'invitation' today yo a 'Web

I was actually just thinking the same!
something's a foot! how many weeks till the easter break again......

Icsics · 13-03-2015 7:59pm

Sorry, to finish my post....got email invite to a 'Webinar', latest JCT attempt at English inservice oh & Q&A afterwards, how helpful are they! So the Dept are steamrolling ahead & our Unions have gone silent. I'm very worried & very annoyed with the Unions.

man_no_plan · 13-03-2015 8:18pm

Icsics wrote: »

Sorry, to finish my post....got email invite to a 'Webinar', latest JCT attempt at English inservice oh & Q&A afterwards, how helpful are they! So the Dept are steamrolling ahead & our Unions have gone silent. I'm very worried & very annoyed with the Unions.

They issued a directive and a letter stating that the website was covered by the directive. Unless they get into the business of web filtering they cant do much until the minister makes a move.

evolving_doors · 13-03-2015 8:36pm

Icsics wrote: »

Sorry, to finish my post....got email invite to a 'Webinar', latest JCT attempt at English inservice oh & Q&A afterwards, how helpful are they! So the Dept are steamrolling ahead & our Unions have gone silent. I'm very worried & very annoyed with the Unions.

Unions have nothing more to say in my mind...

Its all dead in the water

Icsics · 13-03-2015 10:21pm

Gebgbegb wrote: »

Unions have nothing more to say in my mind...

Its all dead in the water

That's what I'm worried about!

Teacher22 · 14-03-2015 12:36am

Maybe I'm cynical but I think the unions are keeping stum as they head to conference, I also think they will go "active" afterwards and will try to sell us a deal in which the ministers is seen to give in but also save face...either way I'd be very surprised if they don't sell us out after they've lived it up at our expense in Kerry

acequion · 14-03-2015 11:54am

I'd be inclined to agree with Teacher22 about the conferences,though we can only speculate on what might happen after that.

Like so many others I don't have a great deal of faith in my union but I'm hoping,perhaps against hope, that they don't sell us out. I don't think it's gone dead in the water though and I do hope a bit of militancy at the conferences might rally the troops a bit and refocus minds.

But I'd nearly have less faith in the members than the leaders tbh. This is a fight that can be won if the members stick to their principles. But will they??

evolving_doors · 14-03-2015 11:59am

Well I suppose they have to have a conference somewhere !

In other news... Jan got no invite to the conference (HERE) !

But will we see the return of megaphone man?

Also in he weeks news. Eddie hobbs is back as a 'politician' of some some sort, and he's gonna sort out us lazy underperforming teachers creaming it (he cites the eminent Ed. Walsh as his research material and the nasty unions strangling education). He may want to have a word with his co-member Terence Flanagan after his underperforming display on a radio interview. HERE .

Is the twitter machine still going on JCT?

Feeded · 14-03-2015 1:47pm

Speaking of Unions...

I'm not a fan of Pat King's style of communication. He doesn't represent me when he speaks in that tired and lacklustre way. I really believe that he feels that his slow deliberate delivery sounds wise and sage-like...his tone, to me, sounds apathetic and almost disconnected to our profession.

Minister O'Sullivan, didn't generate the master plan she is trying to push through; she is only continuing another's work...she doesn't understand our work or our concerns because she hasn't spent a day in our shoes in terms of of teaching in resource starved schools where optimism for our profession's future is at an all time low.

I'm more than delighted to strike again.

acequion · 14-03-2015 8:39pm

As an ASTI member,I very much applaud my union's decision not to invite Jan O Sullivan to this year's conference.

evolving_doors · 14-03-2015 11:42pm

acequion wrote: »

As an ASTI member,I very much applaud my union's decision not to invite Jan O Sullivan to this year's conference.

Agree, to hell with the same old song and dance. What purpose did it really serve only to make people angrier. I get the feeling this union conference is best served by going under the public radar. The only thing sabre rattling will do now is to force attention on to 'greedy teachers' and how we killed the economy by rejecting self assessment for state exams. (especially with renua/hobbs and talks of public sector pay adjustment coming towards election).

If 'public' really give a damn then lets see who cares when the JCSA is supposed to start in Sept ...but doesn't. Then and only then will parents whose kids are in second year start to sit up and wonder whats the story. Next person to play in this game is the Minister (she walked out!).

By creating too much 'craziness' in the upcoming conference it will look like the union is disintegrating and the whole JCSA stance is predicated on 'political' shenanigans within the union. I would say a very low key cool head is needed to get us quietly to June. The inner-political aspect was alluded to in the media a few weeks ago, and what I reckon they were trying to do is stir up memories of the political union power-struggles that went on in the strikes around 2000's.

man_no_plan · 15-03-2015 12:09am

Gebgbegb wrote: »

Agree, to hell with the same old song and dance. What purpose did it really serve only to make people angrier. I get the feeling this union conference is best served by going under the public radar. The only thing sabre rattling will do now is to force attention on to 'greedy teachers' and how we killed the economy by rejecting self assessment for state exams. (especially with renua/hobbs and talks of public sector pay adjustment coming towards election).

If 'public' really give a damn then lets see who cares when the JCSA is supposed to start in Sept ...but doesn't. Then and only then will parents whose kids are in second year start to sit up and wonder whats the story. Next person to play in this game is the Minister (she walked out!).

By creating too much 'craziness' in the upcoming conference it will look like the union is disintegrating and the whole JCSA stance is predicated on 'political' shenanigans within the union. I would say a very low key cool head is needed to get us quietly to June. The inner-political aspect was alluded to in the media a few weeks ago, and what I reckon they were trying to do is stir up memories of the political union power-struggles that went on in the strikes around 2000's.

Totally agree. Keep going as we are, don't cooperate with JCSA. if Jan docks pay push the red button and go all out.

evolving_doors · 15-03-2015 8:49am

Dont forget Mr. E. Hobbs sexist assertions during Haddington road ... when all teachers were on 60k with golden pensions.

HERE

MrJones1973 · 17-03-2015 3:07pm

There is a motion before conference to elect the New Gen Sec. PK retires this year This will change the union. If you can spare a day-contact yiour branch Secretary. It will cost you nothing. Expenses coverewd, Will check on day it might be on. All your expenses will be covered. Or you could just moan from the sidelines..

solerina · 17-03-2015 7:28pm

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

There is a motion before conference to elect the New Gen Sec. PK retires this year This will change the union. If you can spare a day-contact yiour branch Secretary. It will cost you nothing. Expenses coverewd, Will check on day it might be on. All your expenses will be covered. Or you could just moan from the sidelines..

That would certainly be a change for the better, hopefully it gets passed !!

aratsarse101 · 19-03-2015 9:52pm

The BBC have a good article here on what things will be like with the new Mickey Mouse Junior Cert:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-31960557

Rossdoc81 · 19-03-2015 10:25pm

I talked to a couple of people that have been at TUI branch meetings this week in Mayo, Sligo, Leitrim, Donegal. They say the TUI have been telling people the industrial action needs to be suspended and the Travers document accepted.

They are saying that this is the best deal we'll get, and if it goes to the labour court we'll get a way worse deal. They are also saying our mandate for industrial action has ran out. They are meeting tomorrow and to me it looks like they are going to cave this weekend.

Reports from the meeting say they seem to be trying to convince people to accept it, and using scare tactics about what may happen in the future, rather than presenting people with the facts and letting them make up their own mind.

It doesn't make any sense to me to cave on this now. We have a labour minister on the way out, a government in its last year, the backing of the parents, and the backing of the students. Accepting things is getting us no where, its about time we stood up for ourselves.

man_no_plan · 20-03-2015 12:04am

And pay talks on the way which will no doubt include the JC unless it is resolved before they start.

We have to be pragmatic here too and be careful of what we look for. What harm in clarification of resources etc. And then vote yes or no on a final proposal.

Reject it if needs be. If it becomes part of a pay restoration the rest of the public sector will carry us along on a tide. This constantly happens, ots very important in my view to keep these issues separate.

Once the Asti and tui keep in synch this battle can still be won well, there are a lot of concessions in the document, there's a lot of ****e in it too but its not finished. There's the prospect of some improvements.

Id prefer to have something I could definitely say an outright NO to than be in the limbo situation were in now. Discuss it reject it, new directive on non cooperation, minister cuts pay all out strike for a week or two.

Or take 1% and do the work in its current form or worse. We will have to decide at some point.

evolving_doors · 20-03-2015 8:58am

definitely... if its tied in with pay then teachers can forget about any future action ever. Even if its associated with 'resources' yould have Ed Walsh spreading the good news that he was right all along.

If pay restoration is going to happen across the public sector then let it happen . Its not as if teachers would be given special treatment anyway... and even if they were, it would be tinkering around with CP hours or restoration of some posts (tied to some other rediculous initiative) so the vast majority of teachers would see zero benefit.

MacGyver007 · 26-03-2015 9:47pm

Minister is pushing on regardless:
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/teachers-to-be-offered-16-training-days-for-junior-cycle-programme-1.2154880

This was followed by a joint statement from both union presidents:
http://www.asti.ie/news/latest-news/news-article/article/statement-from-asti-tui-presidents-re-todays-briefing-on-the-framework-for-junior-cycle//back_to/asti-home/

evolving_doors · 26-03-2015 10:16pm

MacGyver007 wrote: »

Minister is pushing on regardless:
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/teachers-to-be-offered-16-training-days-for-junior-cycle-programme-1.2154880

Well she better get to work so. I've a double JC class first thing tomorrow morning so she can start there first.

Boober Fraggle · 26-03-2015 10:16pm

MacGyver007 wrote: »

Minister is pushing on regardless:
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/teachers-to-be-offered-16-training-days-for-junior-cycle-programme-1.2154880

This was followed by a joint statement from both union presidents:
http://www.asti.ie/news/latest-news/news-article/article/statement-from-asti-tui-presidents-re-todays-briefing-on-the-framework-for-junior-cycle//back_to/asti-home/

The arrogance shown by O'Sullivan is staggering. She seems to think the teachers are a separate group to the unions! I can see how newly qualified teachers who don't have work would sign up to courses in the hope that it would give them an edge in an interview, but I hope established teachers/ union members aren't.

gaiscioch · 27-03-2015 12:10am

MacGyver007 wrote: »

Minister is pushing on regardless:
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/teachers-to-be-offered-16-training-days-for-junior-cycle-programme-1.2154880

This was followed by a joint statement from both union presidents:
http://www.asti.ie/news/latest-news/news-article/article/statement-from-asti-tui-presidents-re-todays-briefing-on-the-framework-for-junior-cycle//back_to/asti-home/

That Joe Humphreys guy in The Irish Times is really sycophantic towards the line his sources in the Department of Education are giving him. On a consistent basis his articles scream anti-teacher bias and a pushing of the Department untruths and agenda - "Ms O’Sullivan pointed out that in just three weeks 1,200 teachers had accessed the new “Junior Cycle for Teachers” website, jct.ie. An online planning seminar for English teachers took place this week, with space for 100 teachers to take part, and “that seminar was oversubscribed,” she said." This attempt to use insignificant claims from one side to portray teacher acceptance of that side would, of course, be undermined if Mr Humphreys mentioned the actually significant fact of repeated teacher rejection by democratic ballot.

And here's my own lightbulb moment: if The Irish Times is this dishonest about an issue I am well aware of, it makes me wonder about the agendas behind all their other news reportage. My experience of this reporting is making me re-evaluate standard soundbites such as the importance of a "free press". It seems, increasingly, that "free press" is just the freedom of one powerful group to push their agenda upon public discourse and accumulate power for the faction which they support/are more dependent upon.

It's hard not to be utterly cynical about what this Fine Gael-Labour government is trying to do to teachers in Ireland under the guise of English-style "reform" - but perish the thought the words "We want to create a yellow pack education system just like in England" would be used by the Minister for Education, her mandarins or media acolytes like Joe Humphreys instead of "reform".

acequion · 27-03-2015 12:17am

Having spent the entire day until now working flat out,coaching my sixth year French for their orals and I've just now corrected the last of 30 4-6 page essays from my fifth year hons English class,I'm just aghast at the continuing contempt for teachers shown by this Government and their parade of arrogant Education ministers.

The union response was spot on and fair play to them to quote what Travers said about "the alienation of our teachers". That's exactly how I feel, ALIENATED and with increasing animosity towards my employer. And also towards collegues who engage with her training despite the opposition of the majority.

Her attitude must strengthen teacher's resolve and the two unions must stick together. We have to face her down,folks! If we give in we're finished!

Boober Fraggle · 27-03-2015 12:53pm

"Ms O’Sullivan pointed out that in just three weeks 1,200 teachers had accessed the new “Junior Cycle for Teachers” website, jct.ie. An online planning seminar for English teachers took place this week, with space for 100 teachers to take part, and “that seminar was oversubscribed,”

So the website has had 1200 hits and 100 people signed up for a course. How do they know the hits are from teachers? I would love to know how many of the 100 have contracts.

evolving_doors · 27-03-2015 3:11pm

gaiscioch wrote: »

That Joe Humphreys guy in The Irish Times is really sycophantic towards the line his sources in the Department of Education are giving him. On a consistent basis his articles scream anti-teacher bias and a pushing of the Department untruths and agenda - "Ms O’Sullivan pointed out that in just three weeks 1,200 teachers had accessed the new “Junior Cycle for Teachers” website, jct.ie. An online planning seminar for English teachers took place this week, with space for 100 teachers to take part, and “that seminar was oversubscribed,” she said." This attempt to use insignificant claims from one side to portray teacher acceptance of that side would, of course, be undermined if Mr Humphreys mentioned the actually significant fact of repeated teacher rejection by democratic ballot.

And here's my own lightbulb moment: if The Irish Times is this dishonest about an issue I am well aware of, it makes me wonder about the agendas behind all their other news reportage. My experience of this reporting is making me re-evaluate standard soundbites such as the importance of a "free press". It seems, increasingly, that "free press" is just the freedom of one powerful group to push their agenda upon public discourse and accumulate power for the faction which they support/are more dependent upon.

It's hard not to be utterly cynical about what this Fine Gael-Labour government is trying to do to teachers in Ireland under the guise of English-style "reform" - but perish the thought the words "We want to create a yellow pack education system just like in England" would be used by the Minister for Education, her mandarins or media acolytes like Joe Humphreys instead of "reform".

Its no surprise though that ministers seek spin doctors rather than proper education advisors.
The last advisor to ruairi was former indo education journalist/editor John Walsh , also another advisor had connections with INM... what was their educational research background?

Did all of those advisors stay below the pay cap agreed on...? Its just a shpin game at this stage. Its obvious its a fight between the Indo and IT education correspondents for the next round of snouts at the trough, the more they tow the party line the beter their job prospects in next gvt.

Actually who are Jan's advisors? have they changed since Ruairi? What is their educational background?

km79 · 27-03-2015 5:40pm

After yesterday's statement it will be very interesting to see what comes outs of today's Standing Committee meeting

MrJones1973 · 28-03-2015 9:11am

Only a fool would approve Travers without seeing resources. But that also presupposes you want to abandon a key principal-we dont correct our own pupils for assessment.

Ignore the media-they are irrelevant. The same media that cheered the property boom.
If you think the new JC is a good idea and feel it will be well resourced vote Yes
If you have ethical doubts and resource doubts-vote No.
They cant physically force you to correct your own pupils work.

*** Proposed New Junior Cert. **Read Mod Warning Post #1 Before Posting**

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* Proposed New Junior Cert. Read Mod Warning Post #1 Before Posting**