Irish soldiers in WW1

jos28 · 04-06-2007 1:37pm #1

Just wondering if anyone would know where my Grandfather might have been sent to during WW1. He died before I was born and there is no-one left in the family that knew a lot about him. He joined up with his brother in June 1915. I searched on the National Archives website and found that he joined the Royal Engineers. The details listed state his rank was 'sapper'. He had 2 medals. looks like 'victory RE/101B and Star RE/22B. Theatre of war served in (1). I contacted National Archives but according to them, there is only a 40% chance of finding his full record.
Apparently, like many others, he never spoke about this time in his life. I would love to have some idea where he went and what he did during WW1.

Hard Larry · 04-06-2007 1:41pm

Try this site mate it might help

http://www.cwgc.org/

SpitfireIV · 04-06-2007 4:54pm

jos28 wrote:

The details listed state his rank was 'sapper'. He had 2 medals. looks like 'victory RE/101B and Star RE/22B. Theatre of war served in (1)

I found that strange that he has only 2 medals! I would imagine he should have had three, serving from 1915 he would have been entitled to the medals pictured below:

Those are the: 1914/1915 Star
British War Medal
Victory Medal

Otherwise known as 'Pip, Squeek and Wilfred'

You have only been given info that he recieved the 'star' (ie 14/15 star) and 'Vicrtory' (ie the Victory medal). He was however entitled to the War Medal as he served in the armed forces during WW1, that was the basic requirment. So thats something you should look into too, if he deserves another medal then go get it!

Information on Medals and Army Service Records:
Head of Research Department, Public Records Office,
Ruskin Avenue, Kew, Richmond, Surrey TW9 4DU

jos28 · 04-06-2007 9:36pm

My sister has his medals. I recognize the two on the right. Love to think he might be entitled to another one.

SpitfireIV · 04-06-2007 10:35pm

jos28 wrote:

My sister has his medals. I recognize the two on the right. Love to think he might be entitled to another one.

If you recognise the two on the right, the War Medal and Victory, and your grandad is listed as having the 'star', then it seems that he was awarded all three, just that the 1914/15 star has been mislayed. I find it strange though that the War Medal is not listed on his service record.

Mick86 · 04-06-2007 11:51pm

He had to have served in a theatre of war before 31st Dec 1915 to qualify for the 1914-15 Star. Service at home does not count.

Try a query on the Great War Forum DB.

jos28 wrote:

The details listed state his rank was 'sapper'. He had 2 medals. looks like 'victory RE/101B and Star RE/22B. Theatre of war served in (1). I contacted National Archives but according to them, there is only a 40% chance of finding his full record.

When you say the details listed, do you mean his service number which is stamped on the rim of the two medals.

Fratton Fred · 05-06-2007 9:03am

Which National Archives did you try, the Irish one or the UK one? I found my Grandfathers service record (which was post WW1) on http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

Maccattack · 05-06-2007 4:27pm

I had some trouble finding out about my grandfather until i contacted a proffessional searcher.

there are loads of people who sit in the archives office in the uk who will search for you. not too expensive either.

Fratton Fred · 05-06-2007 5:10pm

by the way, have you read "A Long Long Way" by Sebastian Barry. It is a good book and whilst it is fiction it is a very good read and is a "Light" way of understanding the Irish in WW1.

Some of the purist historians may disagree, but I am enjoying reading it.

jos28 · 05-06-2007 6:49pm

It was that book that started me off thinking about my Grandad. I started it last week. It may me wonder where he was sent, what did he see etc. All I know about that time in his life was that he could not stay in his native Kerry after the war. Signing up with the British army did not go down too well with his family. I got my bit of information about him on the UK national archives site. I think I will contact a professional, I have a list of them. It would be worth the effort if I could find out more about him. He signed up with his brother so I might be able to find the two of them.

jos28 · 10-06-2007 10:48am

Mick86 wrote:

When you say the details listed, do you mean his service number which is stamped on the rim of the two medals.

Hi Mick,
The details I have are from his medal roll.Must get the medals and check them out.

jos28 · 30-07-2007 9:37pm

Just wanted to let you know that I contacted a researcher. Unfortunately my Grandads service record was blitzed but I still got a lot of information.
He was underage when he enlisted in Oct 1913.(Age 16)
He was deployed to France/Flanders June 1915, served as a sapper with the Royal Engineers.
In Aug 1917, he was discharged through sickness, deemed no longer fit for service. He was a chronic asthmatic(died in 1944 age 48 following an asthma attack).
He was awarded the 1915 Star Medal,plus the British War and Victory medals and the Silver War Badge . It only took about 10 days to get the results of the search and was only €60. Well worth doing.
Thanks a million for all your help everyone.

Fratton Fred · 30-07-2007 9:52pm

jos28 wrote:

Just wanted to let you know that I contacted a researcher. Unfortunately my Grandads service record was blitzed but I still got a lot of information.
He was underage when he enlisted in Oct 1913.(Age 16)
He was deployed to France/Flanders June 1915, served as a sapper with the Royal Engineers.
In Aug 1917, he was discharged through sickness, deemed no longer fit for service. He was a chronic asthmatic(died in 1944 age 48 following an asthma attack).
He was awarded the 1915 Star Medal,plus the British War and Victory medals and the Silver War Badge . It only took about 10 days to get the results of the search and was only €60. Well worth doing.
Thanks a million for all your help everyone.

Shame about the records, but a good result all the same. When I dug up my Grandfathers, it kind of made the whole thing (and him as a person) seem all the more real.

Snickers Man · 31-07-2007 9:14am

My mother had several uncles who served in WWI. One of them (by marriage) was an engineer who served right through the war without getting a scratch. Apparently they used to tease him mercilessly for the rest of his life (mostly spent in Dublin, whatever people may now say about veterans being persecuted) about the fact that he never fired a shot and that he had it easy back in the rear, mending bridges and building roads etc.

He would point out indignantly that he actually spent a lot of time in No Man's Land putting up barbed wire, probably one of the more dangerous tasks that a soldier could be allotted.

That's what would make it difficult to find out exactly where your grandfather served. Engineers were required everywhere so he could have been in any theatre of the war. And the website http://www.cwgc.org would be no good to you if he survived the war. That only lists those killed.

dave_705 · 18-11-2008 5:46pm

Hi Jos28 - Can you give me the contact details of the researcher that found out about your relative in the army? I am in a similar position.

Cheers

Dave

spurious · 21-11-2008 11:36am

If an ancestor has medals, you can download a copy of their medal card for a small fee from here:
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/medals.asp

dubtom · 22-11-2008 4:31am

My Great Grandfather died in the first war but unfortunatly I know nothing of his service, in fact I know nothing about him at all. He died when My grandmother was very young and she seemed to dislike talking about him, so little information has passed down about him. I'm wondering is there somewhere i could search that would give info about a soldier when they joined up, an address perhaps, or marital and dependant info. I had a look on the CWGC site and it lists several with his name in an Irish regiment,but obviously has their nationality as great Britian. I have no dates of DOB or DOD so can't really narrow down the search. i would dearly love to visit his grave if there is one,it seems a shame to me that he is largly forgotten by my family.

Lizzykins · 22-11-2008 12:55pm

I used a researcher in Britain called Tom Tulloch Marshall who found out a vast amount of info about my grandfather. If you google his name you'll find him. I'd recommend him to anyone. Didn't cost a fortune either.

spurious · 22-11-2008 7:58pm

I have some connections in the Photographic Project ( http://www.twgpp.org ) and I have a database of all the British army war graves in Ireland.
PM me whatever details you know - name, area of the country he was from, rough age etc. and I will have a look.

dubtom · 26-11-2008 2:52am

I managed to find my great grandfathers 1911 census form,I'm amazed really because I have searched before about 10 times with no luck, I have at least now an address, an age, year of marriage and a little more hope of finding out what happened to him. I sent off an enquirie to Tom Tulloch Marshall which I hope will get some results. Thanks for the link.

Fratton Fred · 26-11-2008 10:12am

dubtom wrote: »

I managed to find my great grandfathers 1911 census form,I'm amazed really because I have searched before about 10 times with no luck, I have at least now an address, an age, year of marriage and a little more hope of finding out what happened to him. I sent off an enquirie to Tom Tulloch Marshall which I hope will get some results. Thanks for the link.

it might be worth contacting the CWGC as well, they may have more information than is on the website. I know the CWGC very well and they have an enormous amount of records, so it may be worth a try.

My Great grandfather was lost when HM S/M C31 was lost in 1915. One of my grandmother's earliest memories was seeing her father, but because he had been at sea for so long she did not recognise him so refused to go near him. That was the last time she saw him (they have never found the wreck, it was presumed that it hit a mine off heligoland) and she lived with the guilt for the rest of her life. even as an old lady her eyes would fill up when she spoke of him, which she very rarely did.

It is quite amazing that his memory is still intact though, his name is on the Portsmouth guildhall Navy Memorial.

enfield · 29-12-2008 12:45pm

Dubtom if you pm me with his details I will see whats available without gong to the NA.

tooler777 · 18-11-2010 5:41pm

hi there, hope im in the right place
i found a ww1 victory medal
i have the name ,rank, number, and he served in the irish guards
i would like to return this medal back to the mans family
any ideas where i could start, i went onto the national archives
but it only has name ,rank, and dates of deployment
any help would be greatly appreciated

R.Dub.Fusilier · 18-11-2010 6:24pm

tooler777 wrote: »

hi there, hope im in the right place
i found a ww1 victory medal
i have the name ,rank, number, and he served in the irish guards
i would like to return this medal back to the mans family
any ideas where i could start, i went onto the national archives
but it only has name ,rank, and dates of deployment
any help would be greatly appreciated

the first thing you can do is put up his name and service number and someone here may look up his medal index card which sometimes has an address and there may be some service or pension papers. he may also have been killed in action which may also lead to an address on line. there is a few lads here who will help out.

put his details in here and see what you come up with http://www.cwgc.org/debt_of_honour.asp?menuid=14

jameswburke · 04-10-2011 11:14pm

Appeal for information from Co. Kilkenny, Ireland

Kilkenny Photographic Society have assembled a touring exhibition on the theme of Kilkenny and the Great War 1914-18. We have a list of 467 men known to have been killed in the war and our exhibition features some of them, along with family photos kindly shown to us by living descendants. We also have a YouTube movie of the list, set to music of the time: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sH4fe8JOlRU

We would like any families willing to participate in our exhibition (Kilkenny only) to contact us. The exhibition will be shown in November 2011 at the County Buildings, John Street. Details can be left there too.

Finally, we have discovered a VC winner, Frederick W Hall, who emigrated to Canada and joined up there. He was killed at Ypres in 1915 whilst trying to rescue a wounded colleague. For this he received a VC. There is info on the Canadian Veteran's website but we would like to trace his birthplace in Co Kilkenny so any help would be greatly appreciated. James Burke Mob: 086 8197455

R.Dub.Fusilier · 05-10-2011 12:06am

FW Halls father , also Frederick was also in the british army and was a bandmaster in the 2nd volunteer battalion south lancashire regiment. FWH had 2 brothers KIA

jameswburke · 05-10-2011 8:32am

R.Dub.Fusilier wrote: »

FW Halls father , also Frederick was also in the british army and was a bandmaster in the 2nd volunteer battalion south lancashire regiment. FWH had 2 brothers KIA

Excellent. Thanks for that info. Would the 2nd Vol Bttn South Lancs regiment have been in Ireland and would his brothers have been born in Kilkenny do you think?

R.Dub.Fusilier · 05-10-2011 12:28pm

jameswburke wrote: »

Excellent. Thanks for that info. Would the 2nd Vol Bttn South Lancs regiment have been in Ireland and would his brothers have been born in Kilkenny do you think?

i think they moved to Lancashire. i got the information in a book about irish Victoria Cross winners. i will have a look and see if i can come up with any more info and get back to you.

R.Dub.Fusilier · 05-10-2011 12:37pm

here is his page from irelands Memorial Records.

here is a link to his CWGC page in case you havent seen it http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=1592737

johnny_doyle · 05-10-2011 11:04pm

his father was from North Shields, Northumberland; his mother from Canterbury, Kent.

His eldest sister Ada was born in Ireland; the next sister and younger brother (Edmund) and youngest sister were born in England according to the 1891 census.

1901 census has Frederick as a boy soldier in Chatham, Kent. He appears to have 2 more brothers Percy Albert and Henry C, both born Lancashire.

There is a family tree on Ancestry with the senior Frederick but the owner doesn't appear to know about the VC winner (or rather doesn't have any info). The grandmother was living at 43 Union Road, West Ham in the 1911 census ie the address on the CWGC entry.

An online tree is at

http://www.chalfont.eclipse.co.uk/halls.html

jameswburke · 06-10-2011 9:25am

johnny_doyle wrote: »

his father was from North Shields, Northumberland; his mother from Canterbury, Kent.

His eldest sister Ada was born in Ireland; the next sister and younger brother (Edmund) and youngest sister were born in England according to the 1891 census.

1901 census has Frederick as a boy soldier in Chatham, Kent. He appears to have 2 more brothers Percy Albert and Henry C, both born Lancashire.

There is a family tree on Ancestry with the senior Frederick but the owner doesn't appear to know about the VC winner (or rather doesn't have any info). The grandmother was living at 43 Union Road, West Ham in the 1911 census ie the address on the CWGC entry.

An online tree is at

http://www.chalfont.eclipse.co.uk/halls.html

That's brilliant. Our local paper in Kilkenny will be doing an appeal for local info next week, so we hope to find the family's address in Kilkenny, Ireland. I will post here any information which comes to light - the Irish have long memories!

Irish soldiers in WW1

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