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titsonabull · 05-07-2012, 08:29

Hi I was wondering if anybody could help with understanding why a person would need a 40ft mast erected for CB radio or radio in general. It’s the 21st century and could the same signals not be received through small dish small Arial etc.

Let me explain. A neighbour has installed a concrete base to have a mast erected and it has sparked concerns that the intended use is not for hobby radio. The mast has not yet been erected and one of the other neighbours has asked this person what the intended use is and he said hobby radio. Fair enough but mobile phone operators have for year been trying to erect a mast in the area.

I am just looking for understanding at the moment as the chap next door to me (Lovely man) it’s the chap next to him again, which is erecting the antenna, is very upset and I would like to explain, alleviate concerns over the mast. I do not want to be dragged into the situation and would rather leave the man two doors down to get on with his hobby.

The talk is that it’s a hobby now and that next year it will be rented out to O2 etc and that it will be my young kids that will suffer in the long run by being radiated to death. I don’t believe this for a minute but just to put that 1% doubt to bed could a personal mask in somebody’s back garden be rented out to mobile phone operator.

Thanks in advance,

TOAB.

**PauloMN** · 05-07-2012, 08:55

To answer your question: even though it's the 21st century, radio is still radio, and certain bands can require large antennas. Some people very dedicated to the hobby will have an array of antennas, maybe this is what he is planning.

It is extremely unlikely that O2 or any other commercial operator would be using a mast on residential property for their services, I'm not sure that would ever be given permission to be honest - I seriously doubt it.

As for radiation, it's absolutely not an issue if this is purely hobby radio stuff. I suspect the neighbour is getting worked up over nothing, or probably just doesn't think the finished article will look very nice, which is a different matter altogether.

Do you know if the guy has applied for planning permission?

bauderline · 05-07-2012, 10:18

Considering the expense involved I would assume he already has planning permission, if he is aiming for retention then he taking a heck of a risk especially considering his neighbors will likely object. Clarify this point, if he has planning then you check the conditions at the local CoCo office or even online for some counties if you can get the application number.

It would say it is very very unlikely that he would ever get permission to use this tower to mount cell equipment.

I think the real problem here is lack of understanding and people jumping to conclusions in the absence of hard facts. Get together, have a chat, clear the air and everyone will likely feel a lot better.

P.

**PauloMN** · 05-07-2012, 10:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by bauderline

Considering the expense involved I would assume he already has planning permission, if he is aiming for retention then he taking a heck of a risk especially considering his neighbors will likely object.

This being Ireland, I would assume nothing!

watty · 05-07-2012, 14:56

Quote:

It’s the 21st century and could the same signals not be received through small dish small Arial etc.

The year makes no difference. A band that needed a 1km long aerial in 1905 still does today. Small aerials only pick up local broadcast signals. A small dish only picks up Direct to Home Satellite TV intended for UK/Ireland.

But really ALL the "fears" are nonsense. Mobile Masts use radio waves (Electromagnetic Radiation, not Ionising Radiation). The closer a mast is the LOWER the phone power is which is a local power density 10,000 times a mobile mast when it's against your head. Right under a mast (within 100m to 200m) the signal is actually much less than 400m away!

Anyway, no radio Amateur or CB person would get planning permission to rent space to Mobile phone company, nor would they want it as the Mobile aerials would be VERY close to the Hobby aerials and the two systems interfere. Also the owner would be no longer able to work on his own aerials without Mobile Company permission. So its NIMBY and appearance.

In fact the entire mast "thing" used invented fears simply because some middle class people didn't like the appearance. Radio Waves in use since 1897.

Radar engineers (1940s to 1950s) used to get Cataracts. But that is 1,000 times peak power minimum and it was from working in front of dish or wave guide (about 100,000 times power density of a Mobile mast at ground level). More like insides of a Microwave oven! Not one proven case of cancer in over 100 years. They now turn off high power masts if someone is working on them to avoid burns or cataracts. A TV mast is about 1000 times more power than Mobile, or more.

So it's all "NIMBY"ism. No reality.

eth0 · 05-07-2012, 21:43

At least the OP went through the trouble of finding out more about amateur radio but unfortunately most don't, like the neighbours mentioned in the other planning permission threads. I can easily see this train of thought heading towards "strict/impossible planning conditions for aerials longer than a meter" and "ban amateur radio to free up precious spectrum so old dears can have the broadband they deserve" (even 136khz stuff)

titsonabull · 06-07-2012, 10:24

Thanks a million for all the replies. Armed now with the information I can reassure the other neighbours that all the talk of being radiated to death is a stretch of the imagination or at least that I have no concerns and do not want to be dragged into the situation.

Cheers,

TOAB

pixbyjohn · 06-07-2012, 18:33

The guy who is putting the mast in his garden might only have a wire dipole hanging from it. Amateurs mostly use frequencies from 1.8 MHz to 30 MHz on shortwave. If you wish to operate on 1.8 MHz which is also called 160 metres,
one needs a wire aerial of at least 80 metres long and it will be supported at the centre as high as possible. Hence the use of a tower type support in many cases.

brownmini · 07-07-2012, 20:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by titsonabull

Thanks a million for all the replies. Armed now with the information I can reassure the other neighbours that all the talk of being radiated to death is a stretch of the imagination or at least that I have no concerns and do not want to be dragged into the situation.
Cheers,
TOAB

Being radiated to death won't be the day to day problem.
It will be waking up in the morning looking out the window
and see a lump of metal that perhaps now spoils the view.
Unless its a wind-up-down mast which would be a nice way
of showing neighbourly respect when its noot in use, wind it
down to its minumum height.

Overhanging metal bits of the aerial might also cause problems.
Will the aerial be so big that it swings over the neighbours garden?

On a windy night, will the metal and other bits ''sing'' in the wind?

73

shaunandelly · 12-07-2012, 09:19

This is quite a glimpse into the mind of a local antenna objector and why I always operate mobile or portable. The usual objection is TV interference"even when not in use". However it seems that it actually stems from radiation paranoia and view spoiling. Mind you I can't believe the size of some of the set ups I've seen so somewhat understandable on that count.

05-07-2012, 08:29	#1
titsonabull Registered User Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 26 Adverts \| Friends	Help with understaning for mast. Hi I was wondering if anybody could help with understanding why a person would need a 40ft mast erected for CB radio or radio in general. It’s the 21st century and could the same signals not be received through small dish small Arial etc. Let me explain. A neighbour has installed a concrete base to have a mast erected and it has sparked concerns that the intended use is not for hobby radio. The mast has not yet been erected and one of the other neighbours has asked this person what the intended use is and he said hobby radio. Fair enough but mobile phone operators have for year been trying to erect a mast in the area. I am just looking for understanding at the moment as the chap next door to me (Lovely man) it’s the chap next to him again, which is erecting the antenna, is very upset and I would like to explain, alleviate concerns over the mast. I do not want to be dragged into the situation and would rather leave the man two doors down to get on with his hobby. The talk is that it’s a hobby now and that next year it will be rented out to O2 etc and that it will be my young kids that will suffer in the long run by being radiated to death. I don’t believe this for a minute but just to put that 1% doubt to bed could a personal mask in somebody’s back garden be rented out to mobile phone operator. Thanks in advance, TOAB.

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05-07-2012, 08:55	#2
PauloMN Moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Co. Meath Posts: 6,540 Adverts \| Friends Mod: Hobby Radio	To answer your question: even though it's the 21st century, radio is still radio, and certain bands can require large antennas. Some people very dedicated to the hobby will have an array of antennas, maybe this is what he is planning. It is extremely unlikely that O2 or any other commercial operator would be using a mast on residential property for their services, I'm not sure that would ever be given permission to be honest - I seriously doubt it. As for radiation, it's absolutely not an issue if this is purely hobby radio stuff. I suspect the neighbour is getting worked up over nothing, or probably just doesn't think the finished article will look very nice, which is a different matter altogether. Do you know if the guy has applied for planning permission?

05-07-2012, 10:18	#3
bauderline Registered User Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 855 Adverts \| Friends	Considering the expense involved I would assume he already has planning permission, if he is aiming for retention then he taking a heck of a risk especially considering his neighbors will likely object. Clarify this point, if he has planning then you check the conditions at the local CoCo office or even online for some counties if you can get the application number. It would say it is very very unlikely that he would ever get permission to use this tower to mount cell equipment. I think the real problem here is lack of understanding and people jumping to conclusions in the absence of hard facts. Get together, have a chat, clear the air and everyone will likely feel a lot better. P.

05-07-2012, 21:43	#6
eth0 Banned Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 2,602 Adverts \| Friends	At least the OP went through the trouble of finding out more about amateur radio but unfortunately most don't, like the neighbours mentioned in the other planning permission threads. I can easily see this train of thought heading towards "strict/impossible planning conditions for aerials longer than a meter" and "ban amateur radio to free up precious spectrum so old dears can have the broadband they deserve" (even 136khz stuff)

06-07-2012, 10:24	#7
titsonabull Registered User Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 26 Adverts \| Friends	Thanks a million for all the replies. Armed now with the information I can reassure the other neighbours that all the talk of being radiated to death is a stretch of the imagination or at least that I have no concerns and do not want to be dragged into the situation. Cheers, TOAB

06-07-2012, 18:33	#8
pixbyjohn Registered User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Greystones area Posts: 4,631 Adverts \| Friends	The guy who is putting the mast in his garden might only have a wire dipole hanging from it. Amateurs mostly use frequencies from 1.8 MHz to 30 MHz on shortwave. If you wish to operate on 1.8 MHz which is also called 160 metres, one needs a wire aerial of at least 80 metres long and it will be supported at the centre as high as possible. Hence the use of a tower type support in many cases.

12-07-2012, 09:19	#10
shaunandelly Registered User Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 89 Adverts \| Friends	This is quite a glimpse into the mind of a local antenna objector and why I always operate mobile or portable. The usual objection is TV interference"even when not in use". However it seems that it actually stems from radiation paranoia and view spoiling. Mind you I can't believe the size of some of the set ups I've seen so somewhat understandable on that count.