AVC's Secondary School Teacher

I found the link

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/teachers-and-lecturers-may-take-strike-action-if-not-paid-equally-tui-forum-told-1.2167992


And it tells me nothing new:

Income poverty Mary Higgins, a teacher from Co Laois, spoke about
a permanent teacher who works in her school, with seven years’ experience, who was told she would be entitled to a pension of €11,000 a year after 40 years’ service. “This is surely income poverty,” she said.

Where did she get that information from? Who told her that? Did she read Emmser's post on this thread??? Is Emmser the teacher who works with Mary Higgins?

If teachers currently retiring were getting 11k after 40 years we would be hearing about it.

There is nothing new in that article Emmser.

Emmser wrote: »

Okay fair enough. I am just stating all the figures that were put infront of me. I also met with a financial advisor privately after my meeting with a corn market representative as well as ringing my Union. All confirmed the figure, until obviously I'd also receive the government pension when I'd be of age.

If all of these people have independently given you a figure of 11k, then please show us the calculations they used to get to this figure. I'm sure everyone else that contributed to this thread along with myself would love to know where it comes from.

Incidentally, the INTO have put together a calculator in excel on their website that teachers retiring post 2016 can put in their salary, years service and it displays your pension and lump sum. They are using the same calculation as we all have. INTO teachers are paid on the same scale as secondary school teachers before we get into that argument.

Why exactly are the teachers' unions promoting this company for decades ?Who benefits ?Because it certainly isnt teachers....

Emmser wrote: »

I tried that calculator too and that's what made me think I was going to get 17k after the responses on this thread but clearly cornmarket and the TUI are using a different formula. I think the only way to be certain is to contact them like my rep did. That way you can be certain of your own case.

There's no need to ring anybody to estimate your future pension.

As long as you know the rules, you can estimate it yourself.

I would hope that the people entrusted with the education of our children can perform such calculations.

Emmser wrote: »

Hi Rainbowtrout, so I rang Cornmarket:

PRSI Class A1 (anyone teaching since '95) 1/80 th of a salary figure minus x2 State Pension (at the moment I'm told it's €11975.60 and x2 this is €23951.20). So I assume as you said I'll end up on €65513 if I stayed the entire 40 years (which wasn't my intention hence the AVC's) which will give me a pension of €20,780.90 before the state pension.

With a final salary of 65,513 and 40 years service, the work pension will be:

[65,513 - (2 * annual CSP)](40/80)

Let's start:

The State Pension is 230.30 pw or 12,017.05 pa, based on 52.18 weeks.

So straight away Cornmarket are wrong.

We double the CSP, and get 24,034.11, and take that from the final salary.

65,513 - 24034.11 = nett adjusted salary 41478.89

If you have 40 years service and paid conts, you will get:

(40/80) * 41478.89 = 20,739 work pension

We add the 12,017 CSP (maybe payable at a different age), to arrive at 32,756 total pension.

That 32,756 is half of 65,513.

Emmser wrote: »

I got through to the Cornmarket Represantive. Basically it is the Cost Neutral Panalties (for entrants after 04 that is affecting my pension). Say if I decided to go at 55 years of age, I'll be penalised 38% of my pension for the rest of my life (looked this up and think he might be slightly off on this figure) and 18% of my lump sum.

If I went after 40 years, I would only be 63 so therefore I'd receive penalties too (which are only implied on entrants since 04) because I'd be going too early. I checked these penalties up, 12% of my pension and 4% of my lump sum.

Okay, for post 2004 new entrants, they can't retire on full pension pre age 65, even with 40 years paid in?

Okay, so you would suffer actuarially reduced benefits if leaving within 10
years of the minimum pension age i.e. age 60 (or 65 for post-
2004 New Recruits)

My analysis above is for post 95 staff, but not post 2004 new entrants.

A current teacher can leave anytime after 60, with no reductions or conditions.

Emmser wrote: »

Hi Rainbowtrout, so I rang Cornmarket:

PRSI Class A1 (anyone teaching since '95) 1/80 th of a salary figure minus x2 State Pension (at the moment I'm told it's €11975.60 and x2 this is €23951.20). So I assume as you said I'll end up on €65513 if I stayed the entire 40 years (which wasn't my intention hence the AVC's) which will give me a pension of €20,780.90 before the state pension.

Disaster averted then. The 40/80 rule is as it should be.

Emmser wrote: »

Then at this point in the conversation with the Cornmarket representative I asked them why I was quoted 11k! They said that's different computer software that their representatives have going around to the schools so he can't verify any figures with me. Obviously though this Cornmarket representative that I met put my final salary down as 46k roughly speaking. I can't see any reason he would do that?

Either:

1. He doesn't know how to do his job properly.
2. He was too damn lazy to work out what your salary would most likley be 30 years from now, realistically he should have known it if he is dealing with teachers all the time, he'd have an idea of what ballpark it is in.
3. Scare tactics to get you to sign up for an AVC by calculating it on your current salary of approx 46k.

To be fair, no. 3 is most likely and worked because you started this thread wondering why you would only get 11k after 40 years.

Software is a poor excuse for the major error in calculation.



Incidentally we had some woman in last year selling insurance of some sort last year or AVCs. I can't quite remember. Anyway she was making sure she met everyone on staff to let them know what she was selling, making herself available for appointments, but her line was a scare tactic. She was going around telling staff that they needed to buy whatever it was she was selling because by the time they got to retirement they wouldn't have much of a pension. She said the only teachers who would be OK were the ones who would earn 65k or more. She was particularly targeting the younger members of staff, who more than likely know a little less about pensions, are at the lower end of the scale and are a long way from 65k.

Anyway she got to me - she was talking to a group of us at break - and I told her I wasn't interested, financially I was fine etc. She took offence to this and basically told me that I couldn't possibly ever earn near 65k, none of us would be on that at retirement and I didn't know what I was talking about. I stuck to my guns. As I said in my earlier calculations, if I stick it out for the long haul and remain on special duties allowance for the remainder of my teaching years I'll retire on 71k salary. Plenty of other teachers in my staffroom in the exact same situation, yet she created a panic among many of them and they went off to meet her to talk about their situations.

I got this from the Department website. Its about supplementary pensions:
http://www.education.ie/en/Education-Staff/Services/Retirement-Pensions/Teaching-Staff/Supplementary-Pensions/Supplementary-Pension-Explanatory-Note.pdf

It says this which is good news:

"3.4 Supplementary pension is available, on application, to retirees in order to make up the shortfall in
pension for the period between date of retirement and the age of eligibility for State Pension (Transition)
or State Pension (Contributory) where the non payment of Social Welfare Benefits is through no fault of
the retiree. In the case of Cost Neutral Retirement, Supplementary Pension is not payable before age
60, when the above criteria apply – see Circular Pen 07/05 - SI 434 of 2009 and SI 435 of 2009 Article
60 (3)"

So it does seem we'll be topped up from when we retire at 65 until we get the state pension at 68.

Then it says this about how its calculated:

"Supplementary Pension is calculated, for each year of service, as 1/200th of such Final Annual Salary
as does not exceed the threshold of €40,056.83, together with (where appropriate) 1/80th of such
Final Annual Salary as does exceed the threshold."

My final salary will be €67 837 (without any post) so:

€67 837 * (40/200) = €13 567

Dunno if this is right because that's actually more than the state pension.

Anyone know if any of this is right or wrong?

Have a cornmarket guy in at the moment quoting the 11k for post 2004 entrants on a slideshow presentation. Thank you to all contributers to this thread; I wasn't scaremongered into anything and I have much more of an understanding of pensions that this guy apparently.