Everything HPAT and Medicine 2012

partyatmygaff · 26-02-2012 1:03am

STUV and WXYZ were the buttons IIRC.

STUV indicated either 1,2,3,4 as the value of the move.
WXYZ indicated the nature of the move be it move forward, move backward, double move forward, subtract 1 and move forward.

It was fairly straightforward after you interpreted what was going on in each turn and labelled the buttons accordingly.

leavingcert. · 26-02-2012 1:18am

partyatmygaff wrote: »

STUV and WXYZ were the buttons IIRC.

STUV indicated either 1,2,3,4 as the value of the move.
WXYZ indicated the nature of the move be it move forward, move backward, double move forward, subtract 1 and move forward.

It was fairly straightforward after you interpreted what was going on in each turn and labelled the buttons accordingly.

now that it think about it i remember rushing through reading it...probably why i couldnt do it!

JamJamJamJam · 26-02-2012 3:59am

Did any of the repeats notice any of the same questions from last year?

I can't remember seeing any, although questions like the tables of smokers/non-smokers and their cholesterol levels and blood pressures, etc. were in my prep course (take a wild guess which one :P).

finality · 26-02-2012 4:59am

DepoProvera wrote: »

Yeah.. Wouldve loved a bit more time for this one.. Chose 3 people still in queue and at least 5 mins for the last one :l

I said the same for that. Bit iffy about the 5 minutes though, I didn't want to spend too much time on it but it might've been 2.

Are each of the booklets different? As in, do they change the letters which correspond to each answer around, etc?

Ga_Ga_Fan · 26-02-2012 12:21pm

I did the HPAT last year and only very narrowly missed out on med. Have to say I found this year's exam more difficult though, so am not very hopeful. Does anyone know with mature entry for TCD, can you tell them which year's HPAT score you want them to consider when they're deciding to give you an interview for mature entry? Like if I do worse this year, can I ask them to use my 2011 score when considering my application?

Thought section 2 had some tricky ones, found it much easier last year-the questions r.e. tone of voice were a bit tricky, like the one with the doctor and the old lady who had fallen, and the one with the artists husband and his wife. As someone else said earlier, there were usually two absolutely outlandish options and then 2 left that could potentially be right! Also agree with previous poster who said the one with the gay guys was the trickiest in section 2. :-(

Paralysis · 26-02-2012 12:34pm

Does anyone know what date the results came out last year? (assuming the all come out at once?)

Paralysis · 26-02-2012 12:36pm

finality wrote: »

I said the same for that. Bit iffy about the 5 minutes though, I didn't want to spend too much time on it but it might've been 2.

Are each of the booklets different? As in, do they change the letters which correspond to each answer around, etc?

I think I heard something like that on ********, but I could be wrong. Oh yeah, I said 2 minutes, but it was a guess,

DepoProvera · 26-02-2012 1:15pm

Paralysis wrote: »

Does anyone know what date the results came out last year? (assuming the all come out at once?)

They got them at a much later time that we will. Late April yay

Saracarroll · 26-02-2012 1:25pm

partyatmygaff wrote: »

fewtinsoffroth wrote: »

Each section is 100.

Not exactly. It's not unknown for people to get over 100 in a section.

Each section is worth equal marks therefore you can only get 100 in each section

Paralysis · 26-02-2012 1:27pm

Saracarroll wrote: »

Each section is worth equal marks therefore you can only get 100 in each section

No, sorry, you can get up to around 105 at least in section 1

Saracarroll · 26-02-2012 1:44pm

Paralysis wrote: »

Saracarroll wrote: »

Each section is worth equal marks therefore you can only get 100 in each section

No, sorry, you can get up to around 105 at least in section 1

'The maximum score that can be achieved in each section is 100'

Quote from the hpat website above the graph of the 2011 results

partyatmygaff · 26-02-2012 1:49pm

Saracarroll wrote: »

'The maximum score that can be achieved in each section is 100'

Quote from the hpat website above the graph of the 2011 results

ACER say many things. I've personally seen (And i'm sure others have too) result slips with scores above 100 for individual sections. They're not the most honest of organisations (And neither are the CAO for that matter).

Flabangav · 26-02-2012 1:50pm

DepoProvera wrote: »

They got them at a much later time that we will. Late April yay

It says April 25th on the CAO page!

jumpguy · 26-02-2012 1:51pm

I really do think the maximum per section is 100, personally I've never heard of anybody achieving over 100 in a section (or 100, for that matter). It also wouldn't make much sense, it'd mean people who are better at one section than another by inclination of their own aptitude would have an advantage.

Stalin and rugby · 26-02-2012 1:59pm

jumpguy wrote: »

I really do think the maximum per section is 100, personally I've never heard of anybody achieving over 100 in a section (or 100, for that matter). It also wouldn't make much sense, it'd mean people who are better at one section than another by inclination of their own aptitude would have an advantage.

I think what he means is that the marking scheme is manipulated in order to get a certain percentile curve. If too many people did well in section 2, more marks would go to section 1 etc.... Besides nobody can really tell how anything works since it's so secretive

kevhall9 · 26-02-2012 2:05pm

jumpguy wrote: »

I really do think the maximum per section is 100, personally I've never heard of anybody achieving over 100 in a section (or 100, for that matter). It also wouldn't make much sense, it'd mean people who are better at one section than another by inclination of their own aptitude would have an advantage.

I really do think I got 100 in section 1. I was finished with 15 minutes left, and got to check over all my answers, including one set of Q's I didn't understand the firsh time (the board game question).

Section 2 was very difficult as was the last part of section 3. I think my mark will be somewhere above 185.

Overall I was very happy on the day.

kevhall9 · 26-02-2012 2:08pm

http://hpat-ireland.acer.edu.au/results/

http://hpat-ireland.acer.edu.au/results/faq-about-results/

Just in case anyone hasn't looked at these yet.

hollingr · 26-02-2012 2:30pm

the trick to the card question was to follow which card lead to 3 (say x), then which card lead to x (call it y), then which card lead to y (7 or 9 sounds right but my memory of exact answer has faded..)

I thought it was a relatively easy section one compared to some of the practise tests I did during online course. Of course there are countless pitfalls in questions designed to trip you up as you rush through, you think you got a q 100% right but it can often turn out to be completely wrong, so it is very difficult to gauge how well it went.

I thought it was one of the most difficult section 2's I have seen, a disproportionately high amount of convoluted questions with 50/50 guesses needed.

Section 3 seemed very standard. had to guess 4-5 but this was expected (not my strongest section)

No point speculating on scores as the weighting of questions is a total mystery. Got to just forget about it for a few months and unwind was a stressful few weeks leading into it..

As your future doctor I prescribe you all a walk in the sun today and ice cream!

leavingcert. · 26-02-2012 5:28pm

hollingr wrote: »

the trick to the card question was to follow which card lead to 3 (say x), then which card lead to x (call it y), then which card lead to y (7 or 9 sounds right but my memory of exact answer has faded..)

I thought it was a relatively easy section one compared to some of the practise tests I did during online course. Of course there are countless pitfalls in questions designed to trip you up as you rush through, you think you got a q 100% right but it can often turn out to be completely wrong, so it is very difficult to gauge how well it went.

I thought it was one of the most difficult section 2's I have seen, a disproportionately high amount of convoluted questions with 50/50 guesses needed.

Section 3 seemed very standard. had to guess 4-5 but this was expected (not my strongest section)

No point speculating on scores as the weighting of questions is a total mystery. Got to just forget about it for a few months and unwind was a stressful few weeks leading into it..

As your future doctor I prescribe you all a walk in the sun today and ice cream!

What sun?

:L ... i have to say i wasnt at all stressed about it.... at the end of the day your gonna get what your gonna get.... I really can't see how people can "study" for it but i spose you can practice... but really every question is different! If i do well I will definitely be proof it can't be studied for! Would love some ice cream actually! :P

finality · 26-02-2012 5:32pm

Paralysis wrote: »

I think I heard something like that on ********, but I could be wrong. Oh yeah, I said 2 minutes, but it was a guess,

They said that the most important thing was that you write down the right booklet number, so I guess if they were all the same that wouldn't matter at all. It also makes good sense to have them all different. I got 6 Ds in a row in the first section and that's why I'm wondering :L

hollingr · 26-02-2012 5:38pm

leavingcert. wrote: »

What sun? :L ... i have to say i wasnt at all stressed about it.... at the end of the day your gonna get what your gonna get.... I really can't see how people can "study" for it but i spose you can practice... but really every question is different! If i do well I will definitely be proof it can't be studied for! Would love some ice cream actually! :P

brought my pup out on dun laoghaire pier this morning, was warm even in just a t-shirt, very sunny! spring has definitely sprung.

As for practising - some people don't need to, and will get very high scores regardless, you getting a high score doesn't prove anything except that the test suits you! I know a girl who got 240+ last year, she just did the official practise tests. I also know of people that went from 60th percentile to 100th percentile with hard work and training in s1 and s3. There are a limited amount of question types they can ask and familiarity does help.

You can improve by practising and from personal experience - many questions that came up in the test were very, very similar to material I had seen before in practise tests, meaning I could answer them much faster. This is only applicable to s1 and s3 in my opinion.

FairytaleGirl · 26-02-2012 6:31pm

Mature Entry Candidate here (24 not tooo old!)

Was my first HPAT, i had the two past papers but that was all.

Section 1 was my most difficult - but i struggle with maths anyway. the lights question was awfully complicated - so i skipped it and then had to mark random answers because i ran out of time. I thought the smoking/blood pressure fine, the table had all the info you needed.

I have a degree in English Literature so I flew through section 2 with 20 mins to spare. Although I did have to re read the David/Andrew section - and the stalker one - i changed my answer about her towel from 'wanting to punish him by being flippant' to 'realising she was losing the argument'... Still dunno which was right!!

Section 3 was way harder than anything in the practice tests, there were a few i had to guess - and alot didnt seem to have any trends etc. I specifically remember struggling with the last few - the stars one.

Guess i found it ok - dont know if it was just because im older - but i felt alot of the people at my centre (blackrock) were ... perhaps not ready for medicine. They not only had parents in tow - but couldnt read simple instructions about where they were supposed to be!! In the test centre when their ticket clearly said Oratory etc..

hollingr · 26-02-2012 6:58pm

the stars one ans was A, or at least I found a pattern that matched that.

one dot went from apex to apex one step at a time - when it reached the next apex it bounced back along the connecting line. the other dot did the same, but it moved two spaces each time. so the ans had both dots in the same place (lower middle).

nothing wrong with a bit of moral support from parents, such a high stakes test which can ultimately decide the path your life is a lot of pressure to place on a 17-18 yr old.

don't judge the youngin's too harshly!

jenny18 · 26-02-2012 7:11pm

Stalin and rugby wrote: »

I think what he means is that the marking scheme is manipulated in order to get a certain percentile curve. If too many people did well in section 2, more marks would go to section 1 etc.... Besides nobody can really tell how anything works since it's so secretive

its based on percentiles doesn't matter what people get you get get more than 100% that's impossible. someone has to get in the 100th percentile per section same as overall. they all get equal marks.

partyatmygaff · 26-02-2012 7:27pm

jenny18 wrote: »

its based on percentiles doesn't matter what people get you get get more than 100% that's impossible. someone has to get in the 100th percentile per section same as overall. they all get equal marks.

No they don't.

The way it appears to work is as follows:

ACER assigns an unweighted mark to each question at first (Taking any trial questions out of the equation). This would be around 2.25 for Section 1 in the event that there were no trial questions.
ACER reads all the OMR scripts and stores each candidate's answers on a computer. It marks each answer given as correct or incorrect.
The number of people who got each question correct are counted and a marking scheme is generated with the weighting being inversely proportional to the number of people who got the question correct. For example, if only ten people got a particular question correct that question could be assigned a weighting of 5 whereas if nearly the entire cohort got another question correct it could be assigned a much lower weighting such as 0.25. I would assume questions would be weighted relative to questions from the same section and not the test overall.
They assign marks to each question, total each section and round to the nearest integer.
They add the marks obtained in each section for each candidate and form a percentile curve based on the overall score.

That's my understanding of it from what i've read about the Australian UMAT. ACER obviously will never openly discuss their methods but from the little they divulge about the test, the best explanation I can come up with is the above.

jenny18 · 26-02-2012 7:29pm

hollingr wrote: »

brought my pup out on dun laoghaire pier this morning, was warm even in just a t-shirt, very sunny! spring has definitely sprung.

As for practising - some people don't need to, and will get very high scores regardless, you getting a high score doesn't prove anything except that the test suits you! I know a girl who got 240+ last year, she just did the official practise tests. I also know of people that went from 60th percentile to 100th percentile with hard work and training in s1 and s3. There are a limited amount of question types they can ask and familiarity does help.

You can improve by practising and from personal experience - many questions that came up in the test were very, very similar to material I had seen before in practise tests, meaning I could answer them much faster. This is only applicable to s1 and s3 in my opinion.

that girl was lying highest last year was 242 gotten by a mature student who did med entry and that was amazing highest year before was 224

hollingr · 26-02-2012 10:33pm

If you look at the graph 242 is not the maximum score. (year before max score was 224 as you say, but highest number on graph is 223).

You are basing your assumption on what you were told by the med ent people; they base their assumptions on feedback from their own students, since they only have the same data as us for everyone else. They said 242 was the highest, but this is only the highest among med entry cohorts. They only have information from what past pupils tell them and the same graph we do.

The girl I am talking about got 78, 99 and 66 respectively adding up to 243. She did a career services day course, one of their prep tests, and the two official ones. She is now studying in trinity and was also a mature student.

Also - if you look at the past results graphs it clearly states 100 is the maximum score for each section. Section 1 had a lot of sneaky, deceptive questions and more traps than people are recognising. Even though it seemed like a 'short' section 1 and a lot of people didn't have to 'guess' any questions, they may be in for shock when they get their results. If section 1 is as tight as it seems to be with everyone scoring very highly, all it takes is 4 or 5 wrong answers with an extremely high weight to drop a lot of points, so don't count your chickens just yet.. it's all down to the weighting, which will always be manipulated to fit the bell curve for scores and S curve for percentiles, keeping the vast majority within the same ball park scores as last years cohorts.

there really is no point in speculating..

finality · 26-02-2012 11:04pm

FairytaleGirl wrote: »

Mature Entry Candidate here (24 not tooo old!)

Was my first HPAT, i had the two past papers but that was all.

Section 1 was my most difficult - but i struggle with maths anyway. the lights question was awfully complicated - so i skipped it and then had to mark random answers because i ran out of time. I thought the smoking/blood pressure fine, the table had all the info you needed.

I have a degree in English Literature so I flew through section 2 with 20 mins to spare. Although I did have to re read the David/Andrew section - and the stalker one - i changed my answer about her towel from 'wanting to punish him by being flippant' to 'realising she was losing the argument'... Still dunno which was right!!

Section 3 was way harder than anything in the practice tests, there were a few i had to guess - and alot didnt seem to have any trends etc. I specifically remember struggling with the last few - the stars one.

Guess i found it ok - dont know if it was just because im older - but i felt alot of the people at my centre (blackrock) were ... perhaps not ready for medicine. They not only had parents in tow - but couldnt read simple instructions about where they were supposed to be!! In the test centre when their ticket clearly said Oratory etc..

in the towel question I said she realised the relationship had changed - at the end she said something about how the records of the phone calls would have been proof for her, I don't think she was being flippant, she was being quite serious about the whole thing...don't think she thought she was losing either, she was sticking to her guns. :P

There were parents still in the queue with people at the center in cork! They actually had to ask the parents to leave as they were holding up the queue. I was pretty surprised at that too, and I'm barely 18. Don't know about them being in the wrong test centre though, for a lot of them it could've been their first time there so I wouldn't blame them for not knowing where everything was.

Ally7 · 26-02-2012 11:27pm

i was in Cork too and my Mom was with me, I was fairly nervous and because I wouldn't be too familiar with UCC she said she would come with me. PLus, I'm only just 17, still a babby

jenny18 · 26-02-2012 11:36pm

hollingr wrote: »

if you look at the graph there is clearly two people in and around 242, with 242 not clearly marked as the maximum, so I don't know on what you are basing your assumption other than what you were told by med ent people and what they know about their own students. They said 242 was the highest but they may just be speculating, as they have no extra information other than what past pupils give them and the official test data.

The girl I am talking about got 78, 99 and 66 respectively adding up to 243. All she did was a career services day course, one of their prep tests, and the two official ones.

nothing to do with what ******* told me the girl who got the highest was on boards said what she got maybe you're right and it was 243 and i looked at hpat. i don't think ******* necessarily helps didn't do it last year got 179 did it this year and found i was more stressed because of it. but the girl who said she got the highest 243 everyone said she was lying as people who where on that forum will remember, and she was a mature student and didn't even get med for whatever reasons i private mailed her asking if she did med-entry as i knew i was going to repeat anyway for medicine, and that is what i was told. but maybe your right anything's possible maybe there was a joint highest i don't know i don't work for acer.

*Everything HPAT and Medicine 2012*

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Everything HPAT and Medicine 2012