Krav Maga

Coupe wrote:

In my opinion you cannot learn a more effective combat/self defense system than Krav Maga and certainly you cannot learn one as quickly

No offence but you havn't really looked have you?

Dabhal

Many of the Rangers have taken the KM course. Forget Bravo two zero and all that stuff, these boys are the real deal! I take my hat off to them.

By the way Dabhal, I see on another thread you are looking for a way to get out of a headlock. That's covered by class 2.....

Not to dismiss Krav Maga but give me 12 weeks with a student drilling them in good hard basics along with situational awareness and some scenario based training and I'm pretty happy they would go away thinking the same way.
I teach Tae Kwon Do, and before you dismiss it,look at the prejudice against it.
Foreign language/Instructor,silly pyjamas,katas,unrealistic responses to attacks,boards don't hit back yadda yadda.I've heard them all.
Now take an Irish instructor teaching you in your street cloths,in English (my Irish is worse than my Korean), no katas and just a few moves drilled into you.
How to hurt other people is pretty much the same no matter where you come from.There are no "secrets".There may or may not be padding depending what you want.
Able to fight in 12 weeks, ok here's the down and dirty,best of luck to you after that.You want to learn a "style" and participate in a sport for the next few years?We can accomodate that too,you might take it as "filler" or extra stuff to keep people coming back.You could also take it as fun to learn even if a lot of it would be highly impractical in a fight,you still get those 12 weeks fighting moves though, and a place to train them every week!
No style is perfect ,not even Krav Maga. Tested in Israel where they fought for their lives? What did Western folks do during two World Wars? There are people in Ireland and the UK who have been trained by war veterans too.The moves will look very similar no matter where you are.Fighting is fighting.
Fair enough,Krav is pared down to the essentials, but can you not see for yourself what could work and "cherry pick" from any other style as well?
The main advantage to more main stream Trad. MA is that there is probably a club near most folks, for a lot less outlay, which is a major consideration if you have a family etc.. to look after!

Do you want to do a Martial Art or Self Defence ?

I study to be able to handle both.I won't throw a jump spinning hook kick at a mugger or eye gouge an opponnent in a tournament.

not allowing certain moves with judges/refs there to protect the fighters.

That is a good policy for competition, it does not mean that the other stuff is not taught and practiced.

With Krav Maga you can use what you learn in the 1st of your 12 classes to protect yourself and your loved ones.

First seminar I ever did in TKD we were shown two strangle holds and a collar choke, so if we learnt nothing else the first hour gave you enough to potentially defend yourself?
Look, do whatever you want, but if you get the right instructor what you are looking for may be on your doorstep!

Clive you're kinda missing the point. KM is NOT a sport. By its very nature it could never be a sport. It is a H2H combat system designed to allow the user to devestate their attacker/s and to survive at all costs. Be in no doubt, if the situation required it (multiple attackers/weapons etc.) KM is designed to permanently cripple or kill. Not nice I know but it's a them or me situation.

Half the techniques, if used in a competition setting would not only result in the Ref becoming apoplectic but would also buy you a trip to the Four Courts!

Look this is not about who is the toughest or which system is better or worse (it's very much each to their own in my opinion). I have nothing but respect for anyone who takes the time and makes the effort to learn any martial art. There is much that can as Musashi says be "cherry picked" from the different martial arts and added to ones own system.

It is just that KM has been developed for the sole purpose of being deployed on the street/battlefield with maximum destructive force. It has no rules or conventions (just like Leeson St. at 2 am or anywhere else trouble may find you!) and as such has no place in the competitive martial arts world.

Clive I see your point like you I like proof before I can beleive anything but what you're looking for can't be proved because you are looking at it from the angle of Krav Maga being a fighting style.
It's not it's a Self Defence style, it's not a different way of fighting it's a different way of thinking.

One of the first thing you learn are try not to put yourself in harmful situations and not to get hurt in fact the very first thing we learned on the course was the most simple self defence technique EVER so simple in fact it’s a natural instinct of just about every animal on the planet including man when faced with danger “RUN!“

What you’re suggesting for me or any Krav Maga student entering “Ring of Truth” kind of defeats the purpose and puts you directly in harms way.

Also on a completely different argument Brazilian Ju Jitsu is probably the best Martial art for an event like that proven by the fact that Royce Gracie is the only undefeated UFC figther in history. But it's not a form of self defence it's a fighting style. In fact I recently saw a 2 minute interview with John Kavanagh who teaches Mixed martial arts in at www.sgiireland.com specialising in BJJ and in that 2 minutes he said at least 3 times that what he teached isn't Self Defence it's a sport.

In saying that if I went to one of these classes which I have been thinking about I might get my ass kicked but if I am I can tap out and the attacker goes away as per the rules, if any attacker on the street is kicking my ass he'll just continue to do so til I stop him and make him go away.

Remeber Clive
"It's a Different way of thinking not a different way of Fighting"

Mick, it doesn't take a genius or even an inexperianced martial artist to figure out that a hammer fist blow to the base of the skull will probably kill someone or stomping on the knee or ankle on the ground will most likely leave them permanently injured. So take a breath and have a think before you shoot from the mouth.

Clive, I take your point entirely, but don't get me wrong. I'm not suggesting that KM is some "deadly fighter killer" system with lots of secret "touch of death" moves. Its not.

It is however a straight forward no holds barred self defense system that has at its core eye gouging, biting, repeated strikes to the groin, face rips and the smashing of joints on the ground to stop your attacker getting up and coming after you after you've put them down amongst other things. Now does that sound like the kind of thing that's appropriate in competition or is instead more likely to be found in the middle of a melee on a street? It ain't pretty or honourable but it gets the job done.

You're right, any KM student or instructor could tone it down and compete but thats not the point. The motivation for doing KM is not competition. I'm 32, a company director and have absolutly no desire to spend weekends competing in MA events. I have nothing to prove. If I wanted to compete in MA events then I would have taken up one of the traditional arts. I wanted to learn how to defend myself at all costs with no rules quickly and effectively bottom line...

As for the proof... I would refer you back to my earlier posting with respect to the various military units who use the system. I would also suggest that you take a look at the course and talk to Patrick and he will give you all the proof you need.

If you still feel that you still need to compare styles well then by all means compete with a KM opponent but don't ask them to tie their laces together before the race starts.......

Hi folks,
I've introduced myself in another topic in case you're wondering who the hell I am!

12 or 5 or 10 week courses in Self Defence Arts like Krav Maga are all well and good for the
man or woman on the street who wants to get some sort of grounding in what to do should
someone attack them.
But thats all it will be, a grounding. Once you've stopped learning you'll stop practising.
Once you stop practising what you know will no longer be useful.

Training full time to be able to defend yourself is, IMHO, a bit like a Cold war.
You'll be training twice or three times a week to prepare for an eventuality which may
never happen. Wheres the fun? Wheres the healthy, sporting atmosphere? What do you get out of it
except maybe paranoia?
All of the things I see people get out of SPORTS, not just martial arts are what I would want
out of an art in which I would be investing time and money. Things like fitness, flexibility,
and an all round good feeling and real confidence that comes from having a healthy attitude.

Thats my two cents anyway!

Just watched that clip. Its complete nonsense, but the girl is kind of cute, so i might go along.

I think we'll just have to agree to differ on this one. Soldiers are generally armed, in groups, and can call for backup. People who rarely engage in unarmed combat, to my mind, are not the best people to recommend an unarmed combat style.[/QUOTE]

I totally agree with you. Their view is that recourse to H2H combat is a poor reflection on their other tactical skills such as shooting etc. However I wouldn't dismiss their opinion.