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Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

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Comments

  • #1922
    westtip
    Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    teol wrote: »
    These guys are living in fantasy land.

    Here is a picture of the clown:
    43e9ac92f41ea3851cd5bce6f8ef174b_L.jpg - Cllr Gerry Murray

    This is excellent news because it just highlights the fact they are worried about the Greenway idea - and they know full well the WRC is a dead duck, these dinosaurs will suffer the same fate of all dinosaurs....


  • #1923
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    Still think this thread is in the wrong place.


  • #1924
    Aard
    Registered Users Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭Aard


    Does the Regional Authority even have any power to decide on this? AFAIK, they're just there to oversee and coordinate the activities of the Co Councils under them.


  • #1925
    Aard
    Registered Users Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭Aard


    Does the Regional Authority even have any power to decide on this? AFAIK, they're just there to oversee and coordinate the activities of the Co Councils under them.


  • #1926
    westtip
    Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    Aard wrote: »
    Does the Regional Authority even have any power to decide on this? AFAIK, they're just there to oversee and coordinate the activities of the Co Councils under them.

    They are a quango layer of local government established in 1993 and probably need to be axed. There are no direct elections, councils appoint councillor representatives to them, they do not have any tax raising or real spending powers in fact making statements like they have - highlights the question WTF do we have all these regional authority's for. My guess is they are there because thats the way we have always operated, they are talking shops in which councillors have meetings and claim expenses this is quite astoniishing - if they have 10 meetings a year and there are 8 regional authortities with an average of 25 councillors on each authority - how much is it costing us???- See Galway coco website has to say about their raison d'etre effectively they are a talking shop. I think one of their big roles in the past few years was monitoring the spend of regional structural funds from the EU as these are now a thing of the past, there is no reason for this absurd leve of over governance in the regions.
    Structures
    The West Regional Authority is one of eight Authorities established by the Government under the Local Government Act 1991 (Regional Authority Establishment Orders 1993). The Authority comprises 27 elected members from the constituent Local Authorities within the Region: Galway County Council, Mayo County Council, Galway City Council, and Roscommon County Council as follows:



    Galway County Council 7
    Mayo County Council 7
    Roscommon Co. Council 6
    Galway City Council 6
    Committee of the Regions 1
    Total 27
    Role And Activities Of The West Regional Authority

    To promote co-ordination and where appropriate, co-operation, joint action, joint arrangements, agreements, communication or consultation between local authorities or other public authorities in the region or between such authorities of other regions.
    To foster co-ordination, consistency and compatibility with programmes, plans policies, proposals or objectives of the Government or any Minister of the Government.
    Oversee the co-ordination of the provision of Public Services in the Region.
    The adoption of the Regional Planning Guidelines under the Planning and Development Act 2000.
    The implementation of the Regional Planning Guidelines under the Planning and Development Act 2000.
    Reviewing draft development plans and their consistency with regional requirements.
    Making of statements on matters as may be requested by the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government or a constituent Local Authority.
    Reviewing the overall development of the region and the making of statements on them as appropriate and keeping under review the provision of Public services in the region.
    Provision of proposals, advice, recommendations or information to Government in relation to applications for EU assistance.
    Publishing periodic regional reports.
    Monitor the general impact of all E.U Programmes under the National Development Plan/Community Support Framework in the region.
    To promote the rollout of broadband access through the establishment of sustainable broadband services in towns, villages, rural hinterlands and underserved areas of larger towns on the basis of local/regional authority coordination and community initiatives under the County and Group Broadband Schemes (CGBS


    And just look at this - 27 councillors meet every month - how much does that cost us.

    Authority Meetings
    Authority meetings are held on the third Tuesday of each month, unless otherwise stated, and the venue is rotated between the four constituent local authorities. Meetings of the authority are covered by the print and broadcast media and may be attended by members of the public


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  • #1927
    -Chris-
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,035 ✭✭✭✭-Chris-


    Victor wrote: »
    No need for gratuitous insults.
    Voodoo_rasher wrote: »
    does this picture of a Cllr not remind one of Mr Blobby??

    Infraction given for ignoring on-thread mod warning.


  • #1928
    Aard
    Registered Users Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭Aard


    @ Westtip:

    Don't forget the "Regional Assemblies" either! There are two in the country: the "poor" BMW, and the "rich" Southern & Eastern. These guys keep an eye on EU-related stuff too. Their function too is:
    • to manage the Regional Operational Programmes under the National Development Plan
    • to monitor the general impact of all EU programmes under the National Development Plan/Community Support Framework
    • to promote coordination in the provision of public services in the Assembly areas.

    ---

    So aparently we have too many TDs, an entirely redundant upper chamber, weak County Councils, equally if not more useless Town Councils below them, eight Regional Authorities that are indirectly elected and that do little, and two Regional Assemblies that distribute and oversee non-existant (ish) EU funds. How much redundancy is there that couldn't be solved by just creating 8 super-councils and leaving it at that.

    To stay on topic: when it comes down to it, who really makes these decisions? In which jurisdiction, in what order? The system is so obscure (on purpose I imagine) that the source of decisions (perhaps not executive, but certainly the "effective" decision) is difficult to pinpoint. The book gets passed, and things get done in an odd order. It's not Cllr Gerry Murphy's fault that some form of decision can be made at Regional Authority level, he's just exploiting a skewed system. Greater power and greater transparency for local government is how the right things get built. As things stand, little in the way of appropriate infrastructure is built and the entire process becomes is decided on the strength of lobbying.


  • #1929
    westtip
    Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    Aard wrote: »
    @ Westtip:

    .

    To stay on topic: when it comes down to it, who really makes these decisions? In which jurisdiction, in what order? The system is so obscure (on purpose I imagine) that the source of decisions (perhaps not executive, but certainly the "effective" decision) is difficult to pinpoint. The book gets passed, and things get done in an odd order. It's not Cllr Gerry Murphy's fault that some form of decision can be made at Regional Authority level, he's just exploiting a skewed system. Greater power and greater transparency for local government is how the right things get built. As things stand, little in the way of appropriate infrastructure is built and the entire process becomes is decided on the strength of lobbying.

    In reality Aard the decision gets made centrally by the Minister of Transport - the last bunch in office failed to grasp the nettle on this issue and cowtowed to these regional talking shops too much. I had a letter from Dempsey saying the decision had to be made by the county council - but we are talking about national infrastructure here (if we presume main trunk roads and rail lines are national infrastrucure), the national cycle network policy comes under DOTT as well. What we need on the northern section of hte WRC is a bold decision by Leo V that wipes away all this regional/county council pandering and says it like it is - A railway is not going to built, the department will part fund a greenway along with Failte Ireland we expect the councils cooperation on this national government decision. Frankly I think this is what is going to have to happen. A decision by the headmaster to say - this is what is going to happen, get on with it.

    regarding the layers of government etc - don't forget on this little showboat we also have the Western Railway committee that meets half a dozen times a year etc, as DWcommuter has pointed out before this whole Western Rail Corridor thing is a career to a lot of these local politicians some of them can be using it a a "nice little earner" for all the meetings they attend on it. A fact I intend pointing out to Leo V.


  • #1930
    teol
    Closed Accounts Posts: 292 ✭✭teol


    I'm just worried about the day when water is piped from the Whest to Dublin. We'll all be doomed then!
    The latest red herring is for a greenway on the Claremorris to Colooney section! Remember that €7,500 million has been set aside for rail projects in Dublin. Phases 2 and 3 of the Western Rail Corridor can be completed for the cost of 100 metres of the Dublin underground Dart! Dublin papers please copy!

    http://www.mayonews.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=12956:the-western-rail-corridor-and-the-national-press&catid=81:defacto&Itemid=100038

    LOL


  • #1931
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    set aside? I hope the IMF and the EU dont know we've salted away seven and ahalf billion...


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  • #1932
    teol
    Closed Accounts Posts: 292 ✭✭teol


    westtip wrote: »
    A railway is not going to built, the department will part fund a greenway along with Failte Ireland we expect the councils cooperation on this national government decision.

    Here is a recent press release from Failte Ireland:
    Almost 50,000 Visit Newly Crowned Greenway


    Greenway Proves the Right Way for Top EU Excellence Award

    The Newport to Mulranny section of the Great Western Greenway, County Mayo was today honoured as the Irish winner of this year’s “European Destination of Excellence” (EDEN) at an awards ceremony in Mulranny. The award is part of an EU-wide competition which is designed to encourage and promote a more sustainable form of tourism development. New figures released today show that since the beginning of March, 47,048 visitors have walked or cycled along the route.

    ...
    ...

    The Great Western Greenway opened in Summer 2010 and is a 17.5 kilometre off-road trail that links Newport and Mulranny, Co Mayo by following the track of the famous Newport to Mulranny railway line which closed in 1937. Its development has been made possible with the agreement of local landowners who have allowed permissive access to users by passing through their lands.
    In recognition of its tourism potential, Fáilte Ireland has invested €160,000 to date in developing the Greenway. In 2010 Fáilte Ireland allocated a further €1.6m, which was matched by the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport, for a 24km extension, from Mulranny to Achill Sound on the northern end, and from Newport to Westport on the southern end of the current route. The new sections, due to open later in the month, will provide a further significant boost to local tourism. Significant funding has also been invested in the project by Mayo County Council and the Department of Environment, Community and Local Government.

    Almost-50,000-Visit-Newly-Crowned-Greenway.aspx

    http://www.failteireland.ie/Information-Centre/Press-Releases/2011/Almost-50,000-Visit-Newly-Crowned-Greenway

    The reopened section of the WRC only got 50,000 passengers in a year and this greenway is far exceeding these numbers in under half that time and is already going to be extended. The head honchos at Failte love getting awards.


    The top hoteliers in the West are raving about it.
    http://www.castlecourthotel.ie/links/hotel-news/whats-new


  • #1933
    westtip
    Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    I know what you mean, the success of the Great Western Greenway is the biggest headache West on Track have, because the greenway solution solves the problem and allows the faciltiy to be used now with the alignment protected forever. If Leo V isn't seriously considering a greenway option all the way from Athenry to Tuam - Claremorris and then on to Collooney he must be barmy, this is an opportunity for him to put the whole WRC thing to bed on his watch - and leave it for some future minister to listen to the we want our totally unneeded railway back crowd - in the meantime the greenway will be so successful the railway lobby will diminish into a collection of trainspotters and former railway workers who clearly know what they are talking about!


  • #1934
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    teol wrote: »
    Here is a recent press release from Failte Ireland:



    The reopened section of the WRC only got 50,000 passengers in a year and this greenway is far exceeding these numbers in under half that time and is already going to be extended. The head honchos at Failte love getting awards.


    The top hoteliers in the West are raving about it.
    http://www.castlecourthotel.ie/links/hotel-news/whats-new

    The same fools who were probably responsible for the dopey signage referred to in a previous post. If you're relying on the Bord Failte/Failte Ireland/Tourism Ireland for your greenway campaign...:rolleyes:


  • #1935
    teol
    Closed Accounts Posts: 292 ✭✭teol


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    The same fools who were probably responsible for the dopey signage referred to in a previous post. If you're relying on the Bord Failte/Failte Ireland/Tourism Ireland for your greenway campaign...

    These companies will demand a greenway...

    http://www.google.ie/search?hl=en&source=hp&biw=1366&bih=624&q=greenway+great+western+hotel&oq=greenway+great+western+hotel&aq=f&aqi=&aql=1&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=983l11841l0l12122l32l32l3l4l0l0l297l5350l0.8.17l25l0


  • #1936
    dowlingm
    Registered Users Posts: 5,309 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    Weren't the regional assemblies basically demanded by the EU, and then gerrymandered so one region would be dirt poor and entitled to lots of EU aid dosh?


  • #1937
    DWCommuter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,032 ✭✭✭DWCommuter


    dowlingm wrote: »
    Weren't the regional assemblies basically demanded by the EU, and then gerrymandered so one region would be dirt poor and entitled to lots of EU aid dosh?

    They are more akin to a clan. That's the mentality in the west of Ireland. A mentality that has manifested itself over the course of 800 years. The majority of ordinary people just live life while their "tribesmen" (politicians etc.) talk crap and follow the victimised route with a begging bowl in tow. There is no clear plan involved. It's all about rebelling against Dublin like it's still under British rule. The demands are based on results and not actual well thought out requirements.

    Westtips Greenway will not happen, because the west of Ireland will always be hung up on the symbolism of sinking/disappearing tracks. Even when there are forests over the tracks, the same eejits will talk of reopening the route as a railway. Personally I'm still fascinated about the arrangements they will make for the gardens and driveways (as I was first to point out many years ago) over the line near Colooney.

    The line to Tuam will reopen before a Greenway is built between Claremorris - Colooney.


  • #1938
    westtip
    Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    DWCommuter wrote: »
    They are more akin to a clan. That's the mentality in the west of Ireland. A mentality that has manifested itself over the course of 800 years. The majority of ordinary people just live life while their "tribesmen" (politicians etc.) talk crap and follow the victimised route with a begging bowl in tow. There is no clear plan involved. It's all about rebelling against Dublin like it's still under British rule. The demands are based on results and not actual well thought out requirements.

    Westtips Greenway will not happen, because the west of Ireland will always be hung up on the symbolism of sinking/disappearing tracks. Even when there are forests over the tracks, the same eejits will talk of reopening the route as a railway. Personally I'm still fascinated about the arrangements they will make for the gardens and driveways (as I was first to point out many years ago) over the line near Colooney.

    The line to Tuam will reopen before a Greenway is built between Claremorris - Colooney.

    derek you are probably right - if todays Western People Editorial is anything to go by - can't post it up yet as not yet released on line, but basically it sings the praises of the Great Western Greenway goes on to say we need lots more greenways in the west but we still must have a railway to provided a rail/air link to Knock airport from claremorris to collooney as long as we have this mentality in our local press we have no hope, but Derek, the line to Tuam won't happen on Leo Varadkars watch, can't believe he will sign off on it, based of whats happened Athenrry - ennis. The Greenway won't happen either because of entrenched few who have a vested interest in keeping the railway dream open as they attend special meetings to discuss it every month and rack up more and more expenses as part of their Western Rail corridor careers. Re the Regional Authorities, what more can you say about the inefficiency of government in this tiny state and the enclosed circle that continues to milk it for expenses for going to talking shops...another issue, but there you go.


  • #1939
    Rawr
    Registered Users Posts: 3,743 ✭✭✭Rawr


    A lot of interesting developments in this story lately.

    I remember a long while back reading this thread, and most of the WOT / WRC ruckus seemed to be directed towards trying to justify the WRC itself and pushing for 'Phase 2' of the project to Tuam.

    Fast-forward to now, and Greenways are the buzz-word now. As a supporter of a idea of developing much of this line into a greenway, I am pleased to see that certain elements appear to be frightened enough about this idea, to actively lobby against it. It could be that they see it as a very real possibly.

    On the other hand, I also see this a potential problem for the Greenway itself, should it ever get the go-ahead. If WOT and their buddies are so against the greenway, I imagine protests during the construction phase, possible sabotage of the completed Greenway (littering it with smashed glass etc...), and maybe even active attempts to blockade users of the Greenway. This is all imaginary of course, and based on nothing more than a concern in my mind.

    Again, I must question why a group like WOT would be so against a Greenway being built on the alignment. I consider myself very pro-rail, and if money wasn't an object I would be delighted to see the whole length of the WRC rebuilt with full grade-separation. But alas, I'm a realist, no such line is likely to be built in the near to medium future. Thus I would like to see the line preserved.

    Greenways are an excellent way to both preserve the alignment, while putting it to some use. Furthermore, considering the success of the Great Western Greenway in drawing visitors to the area, do WOT not see the advantage in drawing potentially large numbers of people to the area with this greenway?

    Large numbers of visitors may stimulate business, increased business may draw more people in, and may even increase population along the route. Ultimately, the Greenway itself may increase the chances of the WRC Phase 2 being opened at some point in the future (with the greenway moved to one side).

    I am hopeful that the Greenway will become a reality, but given the efforts of some to keep this alignment in development limbo, we may not see it for a long while. I hope that is not the case.


  • #1940
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    theres money to be made from a Greenway, theres subsidies to be paid out on a Railway..No brainer



    you'd think:rolleyes:


  • #1941
    westtip
    Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    Rawr wrote: »
    ....Fast-forward to now, and Greenways are the buzz-word now. As a supporter of a idea of developing much of this line into a greenway, I am pleased to see that certain elements appear to be frightened enough about this idea, to actively lobby against it. It could be that they see it as a very real possibly.

    I am hopeful that the Greenway will become a reality, but given the efforts of some to keep this alignment in development limbo, we may not see it for a long while. I hope that is not the case.

    RAWR just quoting part of you in reply - I don't think we will see civil unrest if the decision is made for Greenway. I do have concerns about the vested interests more concerned about keeping the line in limbo out of sheer spite in a misheld belief the railway is coming. I have never understood why WOT would not grasp the offer of a greenway by Eamon O'Cuiv on the claremorris collooney line back in May 2009.

    And I absolutely cannot understand why they won't grasp the parallel greenway argument, for me this one is compelling to make their case stronger. Had a parallel greenway been put in place on the Athenry - Ennis line - the whole thing would have become a major tourist attraction - cycle one way train the other, but they are fixated on the bloody corridor concept.

    I also welcome the lobbying against the idea - as a lone voice in the media I have written many letters about the subject for a long time and now new voices are coming through, the power of one has been very much in evidence on this subject, I was calling for this greenway long before the Great Western Greenway was conceived and have realised for years - this is exactly the kind of tourist infrastrucure the west of ireland has been crying out for. I welcome the lobbying against the greenway by the dinosaurs, because at long last the idea is becoming a public rather than private debate, and once this happens I am confident what the public will say and realise what is achievable and what is not achievable. The take off of the campaign on Facebook has been sensational.

    Did you read the piece in the western people today? I may type it up and post it up later unless it becomes available on their website, but the momentum on this debate is gathering and it is only a matter of time before a major politician will publically come down on the side of the greenway. This is what the dinosaurs are trying to stop - but their fate is already written.


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  • #1942
    DWCommuter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,032 ✭✭✭DWCommuter


    Rawr wrote: »
    A lot of interesting developments in this story lately.

    I remember a long while back reading this thread, and most of the WOT / WRC ruckus seemed to be directed towards trying to justify the WRC itself and pushing for 'Phase 2' of the project to Tuam.

    Fast-forward to now, and Greenways are the buzz-word now. As a supporter of a idea of developing much of this line into a greenway, I am pleased to see that certain elements appear to be frightened enough about this idea, to actively lobby against it. It could be that they see it as a very real possibly.

    On the other hand, I also see this a potential problem for the Greenway itself, should it ever get the go-ahead. If WOT and their buddies are so against the greenway, I imagine protests during the construction phase, possible sabotage of the completed Greenway (littering it with smashed glass etc...), and maybe even active attempts to blockade users of the Greenway. This is all imaginary of course, and based on nothing more than a concern in my mind.

    Again, I must question why a group like WOT would be so against a Greenway being built on the alignment. I consider myself very pro-rail, and if money wasn't an object I would be delighted to see the whole length of the WRC rebuilt with full grade-separation. But alas, I'm a realist, no such line is likely to be built in the near to medium future. Thus I would like to see the line preserved.

    Greenways are an excellent way to both preserve the alignment, while putting it to some use. Furthermore, considering the success of the Great Western Greenway in drawing visitors to the area, do WOT not see the advantage in drawing potentially large numbers of people to the area with this greenway?

    Large numbers of visitors may stimulate business, increased business may draw more people in, and may even increase population along the route. Ultimately, the Greenway itself may increase the chances of the WRC Phase 2 being opened at some point in the future (with the greenway moved to one side).

    I am hopeful that the Greenway will become a reality, but given the efforts of some to keep this alignment in development limbo, we may not see it for a long while. I hope that is not the case.


    I have a compromise that will work if WOT and their crazy followers can come down from their Nazi cloud.*

    Build the Greenway with signs that articulate the planned reopening at a future date (when economically justified and affordable). Link WOTs website. Record and articulate the recent history of the WRC campaign and incorporate it into the Greenway experience.

    Orchestrate a future design that will allow the Greenway to continue if the route was reopened as a rail line.

    However my little * explains it all.

    * WOT and their supporters will never accept anything that pulls the rotten track out of the ground, unless it's a rebuilt rail line. They will continue to ignore sensible uses, while promoting the symbolism that is represented by the the track that was never lifted. Ardee was lifted. The North Kerry was lifted. The Achill line was lifted. Naas - Tullow was lifted. I could go on. Feck it, I will. Former lines in Cork City. Ah feck it again. Whats the point. All the aforementioned have a fully or partially developed Greenway aspect on them. Most of them have motorways driven over them because there was never any hope or potential. But the WRC is a different entity that is driven by assholes intent on being absolute assholes with either no understanding of basic economics, an ambition to be a local hero at any cost or a politician acting like a ...eh politician!

    The WRC is biblical and it always will be, therefore Eamonn de Valera (a foreigner and former Taoiseach and President, (who most closely represents the current west of Ireland mindset) would reopen it if he were alive today. Think about that.

    Ireland, the land of no hopers.


  • #1943
    -Chris-
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,035 ✭✭✭✭-Chris-


    DWCommuter wrote: »
    I have a compromise that will work if WOT and their crazy followers can come down from their Nazi cloud.*

    ...the WRC is a different entity that is driven by assholes intent on being absolute assholes...

    Can you post without nazi references, calling people assholes, or the usual theatrical hyperbole?

    I feel you're trolling with this post. Please stop.


  • #1944
    DWCommuter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,032 ✭✭✭DWCommuter


    I'll PM you.


  • #1945
    -Chris-
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,035 ✭✭✭✭-Chris-


    OK


  • #1946
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    Very cryptic posts. :D


  • #1947
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    this thread does not belong here, please move it Mods. It is hampering the development of what the Enthusiasts who requested it expect of the forum. Same applies to one or two other threads.


  • #1948
    steamengine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,372 ✭✭✭steamengine


    +1..........agree with Corktina on this one. A too political and contentious thread for this forum.


  • #1949
    westtip
    Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    Was it supposed to become a chicken dinner thread?


  • #1950
    -Chris-
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,035 ✭✭✭✭-Chris-


    westtip wrote: »
    Was it supposed to become a chicken dinner thread?

    See you in 3 days.

    Banned for Trolling as per the C&T Charter.


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  • #1951
    DWCommuter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,032 ✭✭✭DWCommuter


    I agree the thread does not belong here. My fear is that it was planted here to elicit bans for certain posters. I wish this particular forum the best, but some threads look like excuses to ban people.

    I'd prefer it if you guys were left free to discuss the more relevant issues (to the forum) rather than have Mods lurking in an attempt to draw certain people out and ban because of contentious issues. Add to that, this threads ability to generate too many "reported" posts and we can see where its heading.

    If moderators cannot control themselves or act fairly, then this particular thread belongs back on C & T where it can be considered less offensive. If left here, I have no doubt that will be littered with reported posts after the slightest discord.

    Ultimately this is an enthusiasts forum and I've no problem with that and I'm happy to let you guys at it without any interference from my opinion. This forum has been a long time coming and discusses matters that have no association with the day to day consumer problems on our rail/public transport network.

    The WRC matter should not be used as a method to ban/warn/infract or destroy a dedicated forum for enthusiasts.


This discussion has been closed.
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