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TII Motorway Service Areas (MSA) Progress Thread

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann


    Does Burger King have the rights now to all service areas in the country, be they under construction or in planning? That's pretty poor form. I've nothing against Burger King, but surely a variety would be better than just one fast food joint. If the choice is between breakfast rolls and beef burgers, that can't be good in the longterm!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,133 ✭✭✭mysterious


    Borris in Ossary should be the dedicated stop for a service area on the M7.

    If I see another stupid serivice station idea built outside a city or only 30 miles from it. I will scream.


    Why can't the NRA refrain from always been so illogical. Service stations are built purposly a service area for long distance traffic who wishes to stop on their journey half way. It is not a stop where you build a bloody retail park in Fermoy or Kildare at the foot of two cities. God I can't understand this country when it come to planning. It's reckless.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,468 ✭✭✭BluntGuy


    serfboard wrote: »
    Fixed that for you. FFS, Burger King.:mad:

    Looking at some of the MSA EIS, there seem to be two concessionaire severies. Not sure about these MSAs, but perhaps there'll be two "restaurants" to pick from (thought it wouldn't surprise me if the other one ended up being "KFC" or something).


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    BluntGuy wrote: »
    Looking at some of the MSA EIS, there seem to be two concessionaire severies. Not sure about these MSAs, but perhaps there'll be two "restaurants" to pick from (thought it wouldn't surprise me if the other one ended up being "KFC" or something).

    In France, the service area stops have a fuel station stop with fairly basic food- coffee and ready made sandwiches kinda like we'd have in a convenience store and a separate canteen/restaurant operation run by a different operator to give some amount of competition.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,085 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    In France, the service area stops have a fuel station stop with fairly basic food- coffee and ready made sandwiches kinda like we'd have in a convenience store and a separate canteen/restaurant operation run by a different operator to give some amount of competition.

    This is much the same in the UK - the pumps will almost always have a drinks station and prepacked sandwiches to whatever level the pump operator wants, with the facilities block and the cafe/fast food/WH Smiths it contains separate. We seem to be going for a one building approach here.

    One of the reasons for separate buildings in the UK was to stop people parking at the pumps and going for their dinner, seeing as Irish people seem to think its OK to go in a petrol station and spend 10 minutes at the hot deli / newspapers / getting stuff to cook the dinner as it is I can see the single building approach needing a few tow trucks!
    Furet wrote: »
    Does Burger King have the rights now to all service areas in the country, be they under construction or in planning? That's pretty poor form. I've nothing against Burger King, but surely a variety would be better than just one fast food joint. If the choice is between breakfast rolls and beef burgers, that can't be good in the longterm!

    All three official ones, yes. When you consider what's sitting right beside junctions, you've got Subway, Wimpy, McDonalds, any number of privateer operators, etc. Eventual intent is that I'll have a website that lists the nearest fuel stops or preferably ersatz services off each motorway/DC junction in Ireland - I've got the domain for it but not the site yet!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,588 ✭✭✭Bluetonic


    Furet wrote: »
    Does Burger King have the rights now to all service areas in the country, be they under construction or in planning? That's pretty poor form. I've nothing against Burger King, but surely a variety would be better than just one fast food joint. If the choice is between breakfast rolls and beef burgers, that can't be good in the longterm!
    Apple bought a Burger King franchise for all the restaurants, however as a minimum as part of the contract they must run/open 12 Burger Kings so as well as the service stations some of the existing Apple garages convenience stores will be changed in Burger Kings. Any new service stations on the motorways that Apple/Top/Davy operate will be Burger Kings.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,752 ✭✭✭✭flazio


    I assume you mean Applegreen rather then Steve Jobs pride and joy.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,588 ✭✭✭Bluetonic


    flazio wrote: »
    I assume you mean Applegreen rather then Steve Jobs pride and joy.
    :o I do indeed, I've a bad habit of leaving out the 'green'.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    But obviously the long stretch from Dublin to Cork OR Waterford OR Limerick is safety uncritical!


    How long will it be before you have people pulling over at the side of the motorway on long journeys desperate to relieve themselves on the hard shoulder?
    norm to use the hard shoulder as a toilet for the lack of any alternative.

    Not long is the answer in fact I already have on the M4 somewhere between Mullingar and Kinnegad - and whats more to the point I had to stop once on the same stretch of road with children in the car so one of them could puke. The lack of rest areas on our spanking new motorways is just indicative of the way this f***king country is run by the various authorities, quangos and government agencies which couldn't organise a f****king p*ss up in a brewery. The incompetence in planning is just unbelievable. Its a joke. A very sick one.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,980 ✭✭✭minikin


    I don't see the need for the MSA at lusk, given that it's under two miles from the applegreen service station at the Balbriggan junction... we don't have the cash to fund it and we don't need the disruption (speed limit down to 75km) during construction. White elephant. Where's the logic? Only hing the applegreen is missing is the picnic area... seriously a picnic area... that'll be lovely with the sound of one of our busiest motorways right beside you - very peaceful!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,797 ✭✭✭munchkin_utd


    westtip wrote: »
    .....The lack of rest areas on our spanking new motorways is just indicative of the way this f***king country is run by the various authorities, quangos and government agencies which couldn't organise a f****king p*ss up in a brewery. The incompetence in planning is just unbelievable. Its a joke. A very sick one.
    You have to understand, Irish ministers dont need piss stops whilst driving to the provinces because they go by toilet equipped plane rather than road.
    How the head honchos in the government possibly know of the dearth of services on incomprehensibly long stretches of road in Ireland if they wont even use these multi billion euro resources??
    O'Donoghue flew to Kerry or back 73 times in a year
    Despite having a €100,000 driver, the minister took to the air at a cost of almost €15,000
    http://www.tribune.ie/article/2009/aug/30/odonoghue-flew-to-kerry-or-back-73-times-in-a-year/

    Anyhow, back on topic and to put things in perspective,
    on an equivalent journey in Germany as Dublin to Cork, i.e. from Munich to Würzburg (270km), there's 9 full service service stations/ restaurants.
    If you ignore the ones at the start and end of the journey which are probably of no use to you, you still have 7 places en route to make a pit stop for toilet/ fuel/ breaks.
    This does not even include very basic rest stops that have toilet only facilities in between the fully equipped stops.
    Maybe Irish people have much better bladders (and larger fuel tanks) than in Germany that no services are needed? :rolleyes:
    http://www.tank.rast.de/standorte/servicenetz/11_en.php


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,588 ✭✭✭Bluetonic


    minikin wrote: »
    I don't see the need for the MSA at lusk, given that it's under two miles from the applegreen service station at the Balbriggan junction... we don't have the cash to fund it and we don't need the disruption (speed limit down to 75km) during construction. White elephant. Where's the logic? Only hing the applegreen is missing is the picnic area... seriously a picnic area... that'll be lovely with the sound of one of our busiest motorways right beside you - very peaceful!
    What happens if the Applegreen at Walshestown closes? The NRA have no control this. Then you'd be giving out that there is no service station.

    Also if you look at the two you'll see the capacity difference amongst others.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    These are taken from the bridge over the M1 in Ballough, down the road from White's Agri and Murtaghs pub used be at the junction of this and the R132.

    The wide photo shows the hard shoulder closed off, the cones extend about 200m south of this bridge.

    The other photo shows more of the work taking place including a crane on site.
    A track/gravel road can be seen running alongside the works. this has been here a long time and is either for ESBN to put up their pylons, the footing of one which can be seen close to the main work site or their is a gas substation immediately south and east of the bridge I'm standing on.

    The bridge over the M1 in the middle distance is from the Five Roads to the Nags Head, while there are tall lighting poles visible in the distance, either from the old five roads junction or from the junction where Applegreen are now.

    I might try bring the zoom lens either this weekend or next week when it should be brighter as I go to work, to get a better close up of the work. There didn't seem to be any work going on west of the m1


  • Registered Users Posts: 70 ✭✭JohnHenry


    I was just on the NRA website and saw this,

    Fred Barry, CEO of NRA stated
    “We are very pleased with this announcement today. These service areas will enhance the overall benefits of the new motorway network. There is an important driver safety element along with the convenience of amenities for all road users."

    http://www.nra.ie/News/PressReleases/htmltext,16697,en.html

    What a load of Bol**x!!!!!

    What about the rest of the original 12 proposed service areas, from what i heard they aint getting built due to lack of funding.
    Typical, first thing to go when the money runs short is safety, in the hight of the Celtic tiger they couldent get enough saftey officers onto building sites but i bet when things statred to get tight the 1st guy to go was the safety officer!!

    This is a quote from the Cashel EIS, Chapter 7:-
    Considering that driver fatigue was estimated to be a factor in 20% of all fatal accidents by the Road Safety Authority, as outlined in ‘Road Safety Strategy 2007- 2012’, it is anticipated that providing the opportunity for drivers to rest in a safe and protected environment away from the mainline carriageway will be likely to have a positive road safety benefit.

    20%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thats alot of dead bodies

    All the government care about in this country is looking after the rich bankers, full stop, everything else comes a distant second.

    WHAT ABOUT BUILDING THE REST OF THE SERVICE AREAS AROUND THE COUNTRY????

    Sorry for the rant, had to get that off my chest:mad::mad:





  • Registered Users Posts: 64 ✭✭paddy cork


    drove from cork to naas and back yesterday.coming back i noticed what appeared to be a diy restroom area.location was just after the cork exit at the roundabout at the top of the slip road opposite the midway hotel/restaurant. any other observations


  • Registered Users Posts: 229 ✭✭Silverado


    I’ve just read this thread and I can’t find a query anywhere as to why the NRA needs to spend €47m on three Motorway Service Areas. Why do they have to spend any money at all on them when private contractors will be running them?

    Surely the contractor can build the service stations to a specification from the NRA and then just run it for themselves in the same way you or I would have set up a filling station/shop on a roadway in the past (with planning permission of course).

    When the areas are decided upon is it not beyond the imagination of the NRA to sell the sites to the operators and then let them get on with it at no cost to the taxpayer. There would even be a profit from the sale and an annual lease rent.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,082 ✭✭✭Chris_533976


    Same here, I cant imagine why its costing anything like this much. Surely €1 million for ALL the land, absolute tops. €5 million for the junctions and another €2million for the buildings.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,085 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    land for these was probably bought at the absolute top of values, knowing the nra... They definitely didn't handle this well, i'm sure they could have got privateers to build for them at a very much lower price


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,588 ✭✭✭Bluetonic


    MYOB wrote: »
    land for these was probably bought at the absolute top of values, knowing the nra...
    Wouldn't you imagine it's better to stick to what you know rather than incorrect presumptions? They add nothing to the discussion.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,110 ✭✭✭KevR


    Bluetonic wrote: »
    Wouldn't you imagine it's better to stick to what you know rather than incorrect presumptions? They add nothing to the discussion.

    Since you're adament that it was an incorrect assumption would you care you enlighten us with the correct information that you obviously have?

    This is a discussion forum by the way and speculation is part and parcel of it.


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  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,085 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Bluetonic wrote: »
    Wouldn't you imagine it's better to stick to what you know rather than incorrect presumptions? They add nothing to the discussion.

    Do you have anything, at all, to show it to be an incorrect presumption other than a presumption?

    Its an informed presumption, based on when the MSAs were announced and the figures given for the NRAs costs.


  • Registered Users Posts: 229 ✭✭Silverado


    If it helps the discussion - I remember being told that the CPOs were paying about €40,000 per acre.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,588 ✭✭✭Bluetonic


    KevR wrote: »
    Since you're adament that it was an incorrect assumption would you care you enlighten us with the correct information that you obviously have?

    This is a discussion forum by the way and speculation is part and parcel of it.
    MYOB wrote: »
    Do you have anything, at all, to show it to be an incorrect presumption other than a presumption?

    Its an informed presumption, based on when the MSAs were announced and the figures given for the NRAs costs.

    The land was CPO'd when the M1 land was being CPO'd, the prices paid were far from 'absolute top of values'.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,085 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Bluetonic wrote: »
    The land was CPO'd when the M1 land was being CPO'd, the prices paid were far from 'absolute top of values'.

    Theres an MSA going on the M4 also. And you're not providing any figures, still.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    I have found this great motorway service area off the N4 - Its called Mother Hubbards, come off the motorway at Kinnegad coming east or at Kilcock going west - avoid the toll - and pick up a breakfast and complimentary Indo for 5.99, take your toll off that makes breakfast 3.09 and take off the "free" Indo it makes breakfast just over a euro - and you can join all the other toll hoppers! And b4 someone comes in to tell me MH has always been there....please spare me ......

    However it does tell a tale in itself - actually I toll hop on this section of the N4 most of the time I come down to Dublin now - it only adds about 5 or 10 mins to the journey and on a return journey adds over 5 litres to my tank - at non peak times I see no point in using the motorway, anyway that aside, MH did actually offer to build an MSA on the new M4 at the time the PPP was being constructed don't know what happened to that idea - and it is only based on a conversation I had with a manager there about 4 or 5 years ago - but what it does say is we do everything arse about face in this country of ours - we shouldn't even be debating MSAs etc they should have been built in the first place. Hello does this sound like common sense - oh please no don't get me started. Now here is another one in Athlone at the Eastern end of the old by-pass there was a service station (name escapes me) but it is quite big which of course did a roaring trade when the old N4 used to come into the roundabout and through traffic went on the Athlone bypass and other traffic took the road for Athlone town centre (or went on to a different Athlone junction), the point was there was a service station there in existence so WTF wasn't the new seamless M4 running into the Athlone Bypass built with a slip road to this existing service station - maybe there is one but there is no brown information signpost (is there?) with a petrol filling sign. What I am saying is utilise what already exists - Think about this - if Johny Foreigner gets off the boat at Dun Laoghaire, gets off onto the M50 and N4 and finds he/she can no longer fill up at Lucan (where it seems to have been made awkward to get on and off the N4 to the one service station there - and then heads west for Galway - where is the next filling station.....I would be interested to hear from the AA how many people are running out of petrol on the M4. I am sure Johny Foreigner woudl think to himself are sure this is a motorway - all motorways have service stations every 20 miles or so .....don't they ....FFS what is wrong with our planners...If they had brains they would actually be dangerous.

    I mean are these new service stations going to involve new junctions and slip roads? Why is the question? Firstly utilise what we have got - and signpost petrol filling stations near junctions so people can get off the motorway in emergencies to fill up, (ie the Athlone story above), secondly let the service stations be built privately near existing motorway junctions (on one side of the road only) so only one station needs to be built, Of course this might present a problem - eg if you had such a solution at say the Kinnegad junction where M4 meets M6 (one would have thought a logical place for a petrol station/service station) if the service station was "off motorway" it might just encourage drivers heading to the tolled section to come off the motorway and toll hop.....it all requires a lot of thought and planning... something we lack unfortunately.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,085 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Kilmartin's N6 Service Centre or whatever they called it is easily accessed from the M6 by taking the junction where it drops to being DC again. Think its signed as N62. Its still fairly busy any time I'm there so it seems enough people have realised its there, but it needs signposting.

    One problem I could see with signposting existing stations is rival claims to what should be signed off a junction (if anything), but proper rules (something like "nearest, less than 1km, 24 hours) could sort that out.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    Ah yes Kilmartins, I remember now - if my memory serves me right there is a Macdonalds or such like very nearby, really there should be one of those big brown signs on the motorway on the approach to the junction showing there are facilities at the next junction - for the sake of those who don't know its there.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,110 ✭✭✭KevR


    MYOB wrote: »
    Kilmartin's N6 Service Centre or whatever they called it is easily accessed from the M6 by taking the junction where it drops to being DC again. Think its signed as N62. Its still fairly busy any time I'm there so it seems enough people have realised its there, but it needs signposting.

    One problem I could see with signposting existing stations is rival claims to what should be signed off a junction (if anything), but proper rules (something like "nearest, less than 1km, 24 hours) could sort that out.
    westtip wrote: »
    Ah yes Kilmartins, I remember now - if my memory serves me right there is a Macdonalds or such like very nearby, really there should be one of those big brown signs on the motorway on the approach to the junction showing there are facilities at the next junction - for the sake of those who don't know its there.

    Kilmartin's is just off Junction 8. That's where I always stop (if I stop at all) when driving to Dublin. It's only a tiny detour, is easy to get in and out of and it has everything you would want/need. Filling station, shop, McDonalds, Subway and Dominos.

    It's always really busy, I don't think the Athlone-Kilbeggan section of the M6 took much business away from it.

    Only thing about it is that I don't think it's open 24hrs (although I'm not 100% on that).


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    It used to be 24 hours for years and most likely still is ....as is the Esso on the eastern fringe of Ballinasloe where I remember buying flagons of cider early one morning about 15 years ago on my way to Slane :D

    People should always check the pumps.ie database

    http://www.pumps.ie/findStationsByFeature.php

    ( select 24 hour from the feature list)

    and correct any wrong entries there rather than telling us about it .


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,110 ✭✭✭KevR


    I seem to remember stopping in there a couple of years ago in the early hours of the morning and it was closed. Maybe I'm wrong though.


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