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Bus driver banned for going too slow?

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13

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    #62
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    stoneill wrote: »
    Yes - He is for real - if you are considerably slower than everyone else then you are a danger on that road. No one is asking you to break the speed limit just ensure your speed is appropriate. You are not there to ensure that others keep within the speed limit.
    Driving at 50 in an 80 zone is not helping anyone.
    If you are impeding the progress of others then pull over and let them by.


    Driving a hearse is a special circumstance - I'm sure even hearse drivers do not drive at a funeral pace all the time.

    How is doing 50 in an 80 zone not helping anyone? It helps that person doing 50 get to their destination safely. There are to may speed merchants on the roads these days .

    On an open road when a car coming up from the rear is going faster i would tend to let them pass when possible regardless of what speed i was doing be it 50 or 120. Its not always possible to move over and let others pass .
    Ensure the speed is appropriate to who? All im concerned about when im driving is to get to my destination in my own time and not the time of someone that wants to drive at the limit or over it .


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    #63
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    Common sense SHOULD prevail but I have seen drivers on the motorway slowing right down to 20-30kph when they see the advance signs for their exit which are about a kilometre from the exit. It was always my understanding that you only slowed down when you move onto the off-ramp/slip road.

    Some people don't have enough common sense or are too unwell to allow them drive safely so they should let someone else drive them around!

    You can slow down anytime you want Foggy . Where you driving behind them at the time?


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    #64
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    MYOB wrote: »
    "speed merchants" - have you been eating copies of the Daily Mail?

    Wanting people to maintain proper progress does not equate to tailgating and breaking red lights.

    Refusing to drive at an appropriate speed for the conditions does equate to bad driving, however.

    No, i munch on the herald from time to time as a treat.


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    #65
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    opinion guy wrote: »
    Ah right its not nonsense. Apparently, you are just ignorant of flow dynamics, which are used to model traffic flow. Anything that breaks the flow of traffic is a perturbation which causes turbulence in the flow - in the jargon of flow dynamics.
    Google stuff before you declare it nonsense maybe ?

    What flow dynamics? its either moving or stopped .


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    #66
    opinion guy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,001 ✭✭✭✭opinion guy


    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    How is doing 50 in an 80 zone not helping anyone? It helps that person doing 50 get to their destination safely. There are to may speed merchants on the roads these days .

    Assuming the speed limit is appropriate, if you can't comfortably and you can't safely do 80 in an 80 zone and only feel comfortable and safe doing 50, you should not be passing a driving test. Simple as.


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    #67
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    All im concerned about when im driving is to get to my destination in my own time and not the time of someone that wants to drive at the limit or over it .
    If people are uncomfortable driving at the legal limit in reasonable conditions they should consider giving up driving.


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    #68
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    The legal limit is the max not the required speed that you should drive at unless you are in Dublin city centre and the m50 ramps at Blanchardstown where the limits are 30kmph and very difficult to go much slower than it.


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    #69
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    The legal limit is the max not the required speed that you should drive at unless you are in Dublin city centre and the m50 ramps at Blanchardstown where the limits are 30kmph and very difficult to go much slower than it.
    But if you try to drive into the normal 120kph flow of traffic on any motorway driving at 25kph you are not olny being inconsiderate to other road users but also a serious danger to them and yourself!


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    #70
    opinion guy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,001 ✭✭✭✭opinion guy


    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    The legal limit is the max not the required speed

    That isn't the point and you know it.


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    #71
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,871 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    the groutch wrote: »
    afaik, the only clearly defined lower speed limit is 50kph on motorways.
    if he was doing under 50 on a motorway he deserves whatever punishment he got.

    There is no lower limit on our roads, which is part of the problem. To drive on a motor way your vehicle has to be able to exceed 50km/h, there is no current law requiring you to do 50km/h though.

    I'd be perfectly legal to drive at 1km/h on a motorway if I was crazy enough and with the way our laws are enforced I'd properly get away with doing it in the fastlane and everyone in the slowlane would get done for undertaking


    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    How is doing 50 in an 80 zone not helping anyone? It helps that person doing 50 get to their destination safely. There are to may speed merchants on the roads these days .

    There's a difference between doing well below the speed limit while being aware of your surroundings, like most truckers do and pull over to allow faster moving traffic by, and sitting in the middle of the road causing mayhem behind you.
    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    Ensure the speed is appropriate to who?

    If you've a problem with the speed limit on a road report it to the appropriate CC or the NRA to get the limit reduced. If you don't fell safe driving at 80km/h then don't use 80km/h+ roads.


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    #72
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    But if you try to drive into the normal 120kph flow of traffic on any motorway driving at 25kph you are not olny being inconsiderate to other road users but also a serious danger to them and yourself!

    Ye, but that is just taking the mick if there isnt a good reason to go that slow but at least with a motorway you can overtake . The flow of traffic wouldnt be going at 120 on a motorway Foggy, cars go at all speeds up to and past the limit.


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    #73
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    opinion guy wrote: »
    That isn't the point and you know it.

    Yes it is, just because you see 80 on a sign doesnt mean you have to go at that speed you can drive at what ever speed you want up to that limit. Just because the car behind wants to do 80 and you are doing 50 it doesnt mean that you should speed up to match his speed.


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    #74
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    Del2005 wrote: »
    There is no lower limit on our roads, which is part of the problem. To drive on a motor way your vehicle has to be able to exceed 50km/h, there is no current law requiring you to do 50km/h though.

    I'd be perfectly legal to drive at 1km/h on a motorway if I was crazy enough and with the way our laws are enforced I'd properly get away with doing it in the fastlane and everyone in the slowlane would get done for undertaking





    There's a difference between doing well below the speed limit while being aware of your surroundings, like most truckers do and pull over to allow faster moving traffic by, and sitting in the middle of the road causing mayhem behind you.



    If you've a problem with the speed limit on a road report it to the appropriate CC or the NRA to get the limit reduced. If you don't fell safe driving at 80km/h then don't use 80km/h+ roads.

    Its not always possible to pull over and the car behind shouldnt be bullying the car in front to pull over or speed up either which happens a lot.
    Where are you going with if i have a problem with the speed limit and to get them reduced? Its too slow in parts as it is .


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    #75
    opinion guy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,001 ✭✭✭✭opinion guy


    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    Yes it is, just because you see 80 on a sign doesnt mean you have to go at that speed you can drive at what ever speed you want up to that limit. Just because the car behind wants to do 80 and you are doing 50 it doesnt mean that you should speed up to match his speed.

    If you can't feel comfortable driving 80 in an 80 zone and insist on doing 50 becuase you are entitled to you have NO business driving a car. You would fail a test for failure to progress and if you were being particularly stupid a garda could find a reason to prosecute.

    Your teenage mentality of right and entitlement does my head in. The roads are there for everyone to travel, not just for you to indulge yourself. Learn to drive safely or get off the road. I'm fully sure you have convinced yourself otherwise, but you are just as dangerous for yourself and others as those who speed. If not, more so.

    But I expect this to fall on deaf ears. You can't teach an old dog new tricks etc


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    #76
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    opinion guy wrote: »
    If you can't feel comfortable driving 80 in an 80 zone and insist on doing 50 becuase you are entitled to you have NO business driving a car. You would fail a test for failure to progress and if you were being particularly stupid a garda could find a reason to prosecute.

    Your teenage mentality of right and entitlement does my head in. The roads are there for everyone to travel, not just for you to indulge yourself. Learn to drive safely or get off the road. I'm fully sure you have convinced yourself otherwise, but you are just as dangerous for yourself and others as those who speed. If not, more so.

    But I expect this to fall on deaf ears. You can't teach an old dog new tricks etc

    Who said anything about it being about comfort at that speed instead of driving at the max around the place? why should you have to drive at the max when you dont have to? how is doing 50 in an 80 failure to progress ? you are moving at a reasonable speed which you wont fail on your test unless your instructor is being unfair.
    From reading your posts their are only 2 driving options for you, either at the max or slow. You fail to realise their is also a safe driving speed which would help you stop safely in an emergency or to take action if needed to avoid a collision both you wont be able to do if you are driving at the max speed limit all the time. Driving within the speed limit is not failing to progress and nobody has suggested to drive at walking pace .


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    #77
    Stark
    Registered Users Posts: 20,891 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    If you're driving along the likes of the R639 (old N8) at 50km/hr, then yes, you are driving too slowly regardless of whether or not it feels comfortable to you personally. Sorry to break it to you, but anyone driving at that speed in such a situation would fail a test.


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    #78
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    Stark wrote: »
    If you're driving along the likes of the R639 (old N8) at 50km/hr, then yes, you are driving too slowly regardless of whether or not it feels comfortable to you personally. Sorry to break it to you, but anyone driving at that speed in such a situation would fail a test.

    No your not and you wouldnt. How would you fail a test for doing 30mph in a 50mph zone? do 50 and you would fail.


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    #79
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,871 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    Who said anything about it being about comfort at that speed instead of driving at the max around the place? why should you have to drive at the max when you dont have to? how is doing 50 in an 80 failure to progress ? you are moving at a reasonable speed which you wont fail on your test unless your instructor is being unfair.
    From reading your posts their are only 2 driving options for you, either at the max or slow. You fail to realise their is also a safe driving speed which would help you stop safely in an emergency or to take action if needed to avoid a collision both you wont be able to do if you are driving at the max speed limit all the time. Driving within the speed limit is not failing to progress and nobody has suggested to drive at walking pace .

    Your talking about driving to the conditions. Which the majority of drivers manage to do and still drive at close to the limit.

    If you only feel safe driving at 50km/h on an 80km/h road then TBH you aren't a safe driver as you are creating an unnecessary hazard on the roads.

    Don't forget that to be a safe driver you also have to have consideration for others and driving slower than the majority of traffic isn't being considerate.

    As I said earlier, my Father drives slowly. He's oblivious to other traffic, doesn't have notion how to do a roundabout or what lane to drive in. Yet according to your logic because he drives slowly he's safe!!

    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    No your not and you wouldnt. How would you fail a test for doing 30mph in a 50mph zone? do 50 and you would fail.

    I got marked down in the Artic test for doing 75km/h in an 80km/h zone. I was leaving a big distance to the truck ahead of me to be safe, if I'd driven up behind and slowed down I would have been OK but by maintaining 75km/h for the whole road I got marked down.

    Since you aren't bothering to listen to us about failing a test for progress, will you believe the RSA?

    Why candidates fail

    The following are the most common reasons why people fail driving tests:

    Inadequate observation moving off, at junctions, at roundabouts and when changing lanes
    Failure to anticipate the actions of other drivers
    Incorrect road position on the straight, on bends, turning left, turning right, at roundabouts, and when overtaking
    Inadequate progress at junctions, roundabouts, on the straight, and when overtaking
    Incorrect or inadequate use of mirrors and signals
    Non-compliance with traffic controls, eg road signs and markings and traffic lights
    Incorrect, inadequate or inappropriate use of vehicle controls, including gears, clutch, accelerator, steering, handbrake, footbrake, and secondary controls
    Excessive speed for the road or traffic conditions
    Failure to yield the right of way to others
    Lack of competence in the reverse and U-turn manoeuvres


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    #80
    Stark
    Registered Users Posts: 20,891 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    Should get a few cyclists to troddle along in front of Mr. Billy and see how he feels about the "it's a limit not a target" mantra then.


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    #81
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    Del2005 wrote: »
    Your talking about driving to the conditions. Which the majority of drivers manage to do and still drive at close to the limit.

    If you only feel safe driving at 50km/h on an 80km/h road then TBH you aren't a safe driver as you are creating an unnecessary hazard on the roads.

    Don't forget that to be a safe driver you also have to have consideration for others and driving slower than the majority of traffic isn't being considerate.

    As I said earlier, my Father drives slowly. He's oblivious to other traffic, doesn't have notion how to do a roundabout or what lane to drive in. Yet according to your logic because he drives slowly he's safe!!




    I got marked down in the Artic test for doing 75km/h in an 80km/h zone. I was leaving a big distance to the truck ahead of me to be safe, if I'd driven up behind and slowed down I would have been OK but by maintaining 75km/h for the whole road I got marked down.

    Since you aren't bothering to listen to us about failing a test for progress, will you believe the RSA?

    Then whoever tested you hasnt a clue. Is that why so many trucks are tailgating each other on the motorways?
    Failing to progress doesnt mean keeping within the speed limit it means if you are crawling along not doing 50kph.
    Again i havent said anything about only feeling safe at 50kph. No, going by what you say about your father then he shouldnt be on the road.
    What is the hazard at driving at 50kph in an 80kph zone which is 30mph in a 50 mph zone?
    Whats not considerate is drivers expecting others to go at their pace just because they are in a hurry. This what happens when inexperienced drivers were allowed to stick L plates on and away they go without a co-driver to assist them. Have you seen the signs that say "Arrive Alive" ? they are there for a reason.


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    #82
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    Stark wrote: »
    Should get a few cyclists to troddle along in front of Mr. Billy and see how he feels about the "it's a limit not a target" mantra then.

    Cyclists are hardly going to be doing the speed limit now are they unless they are in a race. Its still the limit no matter how you see it or who is in front of you.


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    #83
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,618 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    What is the hazard at driving at 50kph in an 80kph zone which is 30mph in a 50 mph zone?
    Whats not considerate is drivers expecting others to go at their pace just because they are in a hurry.

    No, what is not considerate is pootling along at 60% of the speed limit for no justifiable reason.

    And its something you can get fined and given points for, and it does happen.

    If you are not confident to drive to the conditions, you are not a good driver and should not be on the road.


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    #84
    Going Forward
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,224 ✭✭✭Going Forward


    MYOB wrote: »
    No, what is not considerate is pootling along at 60% of the speed limit for no justifiable reason.

    And its something you can get fined and given points for, and it does happen.

    If you are not confident to drive to the conditions, you are not a good driver and should not be on the road.

    Time to pause maybe, and realise that much of whats being discussed here is of a subjective nature.

    What I have seen lately is that the majority of drivers have actually slowed down a little if anything.
    Limits are not tagets, many are illogical.

    There is no harm done if a slower driver keeps well to the left.
    The problem arises if an overtaking manouevre cannot be executed safely, but if it cant be done safely one could argue that the slower driver is driving to that road's design or limit, which is most likely not going to be a 100kph road anyway and slower driving may be indeed suited to that road.


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    #85
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    MYOB wrote: »
    No, what is not considerate is pootling along at 60% of the speed limit for no justifiable reason.

    And its something you can get fined and given points for, and it does happen.

    If you are not confident to drive to the conditions, you are not a good driver and should not be on the road.

    I agree if you are not confident enough to drive then you shouldnt be on the road but thats what we had with people without any experience just lashing the L plates on the car and away they went. Driving to the conditions doesnt mean that you have to hit the limit or break it or be intimidated by a car driving right up to the back of you flashing its lights trying to force you to move over just because they are speed merchants. That is more dangerous than anyone driving slow.
    You wont get fined for going 60% of any limit unless the limit was 30kmph and 60% of that would be parked.


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    #86
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,695 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    opinion guy wrote: »
    if you were being particularly stupid a garda could find a reason to prosecute.

    Your teenage mentality of right and entitlement does my head in. The roads are there for everyone to travel, not just for you to indulge yourself.
    Do we have a penalty for obstruction ?
    In the UK people travelling above the speed limit have been done for this because they didn't get out of the overtaking lane when someone travelling even faster caught up with them


    http://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/14687
    “I have to disqualify him because of his attitude to Sgt Moore and his general arrogance on that day,” said Judge Mary Fahy.


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    #87
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,618 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    I agree if you are not confident enough to drive then you shouldnt be on the road but thats what we had with people without any experience just lashing the L plates on the car and away they went. Driving to the conditions doesnt mean that you have to hit the limit or break it or be intimidated by a car driving right up to the back of you flashing its lights trying to force you to move over just because they are speed merchants. That is more dangerous than anyone driving slow.
    You wont get fined for going 60% of any limit unless the limit was 30kmph and 60% of that would be parked.

    Any reply that falls back on "speed merchants" just shows that you're never, ever going to be moved from thinking that pootling is OK; until you're fined for it I suspect.


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    #88
    opinion guy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,001 ✭✭✭✭opinion guy


    Hilly Bill you don't drive a mini by any chance do you ?


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    #89
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    MYOB wrote: »
    Any reply that falls back on "speed merchants" just shows that you're never, ever going to be moved from thinking that pootling is OK; until you're fined for it I suspect.

    WTF is Pootling? Didnt notice that in the rule book ;)


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    #90
    Stark
    Registered Users Posts: 20,891 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    Lads, he's a troll, pure and simple


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    #91
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    You can slow down anytime you want Foggy . Where you driving behind them at the time?

    So in your world of motoring it is perfectly ok for a car driver to plod along at a very slow 25-30mph pace and join the traffic on the Naas road pulling directly into the path of coaches doing up to 60mph forcing all other users to take immediate avoiding action?


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