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what marshall amp

  • 31-01-2012 4:24pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 7,670 ✭✭✭


    I am considering getting a les paul studio as my first guitar & will need an amp to accompany it. I'm interested in bluesy rock and was wondering what is a good small sized amp to go with it. I'll be jamming mostly so don't need a huge sound..

    I'm keen on a marshall as most of my guitar heros use them and I'm told a les paul and marshall are a good combo. I'd love a tube amp, but maintenance would be an issue where I'm based.

    Suggestions on the back of a self addressed envelope please. Obviously cost will be a factor.


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 21,601 ✭✭✭✭Squidgy Black


    If you definitely want the Marshall and Les Paul combo, pick up a Marshall Class 5. 5 watt all tube combo/head class A. Brilliant amp and will give you those classic marshall tones.


  • Registered Users Posts: 856 ✭✭✭firefly08


    ^This. I just bought a Class 5, and I have the exact same guitar. They are perfectly matched, and this amp is great value for money.

    It's a very simple amp, it only has 1 control for preamp gain and volume, so to get more distortion, you have to turn it up more. However it still sounds great at low volume settings, and it has a reduced power mode where you can crank it up for a screaming tone without it getting too loud.

    You want to avoid high power valve (tube) amps because generally valve amps make their best sound when they are operated at a high proportion of their volume. So if you have a 50 or 100 Watt amp you probably won't be able to turn it up past 1 or 1.5 in your house, and it's not going to sound very special at 1/10th of it's volume.

    What is it about where you're based that will make owning a valve amp difficult?

    The only other thing I'd say it, if this is your first guitar/amp, be absolutely sure you are up for this, because this is all going to cost at least 3 times what you need to spend to get started. It's worth it in my opinion, in terms of sound quality - but it is an investment.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,670 ✭✭✭Bluefoam


    Thanks for the feedback, its exactly what I'm looking for.

    I'm living in the Middle East right now, so getting parts might be a problem, as well as the lack of knowledgable support...


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,601 ✭✭✭✭Squidgy Black


    It's a very low maintenance amp, only three tubes with a very simple circuit as it's a single channel amp.

    If you're worried about reliability then maybe just pick up something solid state.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,670 ✭✭✭Bluefoam


    I suppose I need to learn more about tubes


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  • Registered Users Posts: 617 ✭✭✭Demeyes


    Honestly even with a tube amp there aren't crazy problems that mean you have to constantly do maintenance on them. Use the standby switch if there is one, and replace the tubes every 2 years or so depending on how much use it sees. Changing tubes isn't even hard and they are easily available online.
    That 5W marshall should do a nice job for blues and blues rock. If I were you I'd pick up a booster pedal like a tubescreamer aswell to give you a few more tone options. If that Marshall is a bit too expensive then I'd go for something like the Blackstar HT5, another nice tube option. If you really just want to practice and are worried about going tube then you could just get something like a peavey bandit combo. They are solid state but sound decent and are very reliable amps.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,232 ✭✭✭goblin59


    i have 2004 marshall dsl,
    the only problem iv ever had is a resistor blowing but that was easily replaced by a repair guy in dublin.

    The least digital parts in it the more reliable i find in my opinion.

    If you can get a 40watt dsl401 you wont ever have a problem as its pure analouge, a combo and quiet enough to use at home, and can go loud enough to be used at gigs.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,021 ✭✭✭il gatto


    I think a DSL or TSL, whilst more versatile, would be too much amp for the OP's requirements. I haven't played a Class 5 yet but it seems to be the perfect fit for your needs. You might also check out the VOX AC4TV as another low wattage option.
    Valves are hit and miss, but usually if they don't blow immediately, they'll last for years. They're easy to replace (lots of online tutorials) and not that expensive. Readily available online. There was a time in the 90s when valves were scarce and not easy to get in Ireland, but these days there is a ready supply from eastern Europe and loads on sellers online. Nothing to worry about.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,601 ✭✭✭✭Squidgy Black


    DSL's way too much for the OP. And as he said, he's based in the Middle East at the moment so I doubt used is an option and same can be said for a repair guy. So you're talking around 800 euro for a new DSL minimum.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,670 ✭✭✭Bluefoam


    The Class 5 seems to be a good option alright. I had read that tubes need to be replaced regularly, but according to you guys this shouldn't be the case.

    It's at the high end of my budget, but its probably worth waiting a while longer to get things right...


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,021 ✭✭✭il gatto


    Bluefoam wrote: »
    The Class 5 seems to be a good option alright. I had read that tubes need to be replaced regularly, but according to you guys this shouldn't be the case.

    It's at the high end of my budget, but its probably worth waiting a while longer to get things right...

    I bought a JCM800 about 12 years ago. It hasn't got too much use (too f@#*ing loud:D) but I've never replaced them. You only need to if they pop or if you think you have a big loss of power/tone. The degradation is slow so no doubt if I replaced mine now, I'd hear a big difference, but they still sound excellent to me so I just haven't bothered. There's alot of mystique, hokum and spoof with regards valve amps. And a touch of the princess and the pea ("well I can hear the difference. You just aren't able to feel the tone" sort of crap). They're basic 1930s radio technology. Technology which was as robust and foolproof as possible for the time. A little more finnicky than transistors, but nothing to be afraid of either.
    If you do go for the Class 5, get the latest model (C5-01) which has an onboard attenuator which lets you get the overdrive without too much volume.


  • Registered Users Posts: 880 ✭✭✭Paolo_M


    Bluefoam wrote: »
    The Class 5 seems to be a good option alright. I had read that tubes need to be replaced regularly, but according to you guys this shouldn't be the case.

    It's at the high end of my budget, but its probably worth waiting a while longer to get things right...

    It's funny, the people that advise on regular valve replacement are the same people that sell valves. I guess that's just a funny coincidence. :rolleyes:

    I've had a JCM800 since 1996 and the original preamp valves still work fine, I have replaced them but that was for tonal variety.
    It's had two sets of power valves in that time. One set was because one failed, the other was for tonal variety again.
    That's with regular rehearsal and gigging.

    Don't tie yourself to the Marshall brand though. The Class 5 is good for what it is but there's others options with similar tonality (that thick midrangey "Marshall" crunch) but better features for the same kind of money, in fact these are all lower cost to the Class 5.

    VHT Special 6
    VHT AV-SP1
    Blackstar HT5C
    Laney Cub 8
    Blackheart Little Giant
    Jet City 2112RC


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,476 ✭✭✭sarkozy


    Hmm, I got a Marshall a long time ago to use with my Telecaster. Actually, I've never liked it. In retrospect, I wish I bought a Fender.

    Sound is a personal thing, and I'm a little outta the loop, but if you want a 'vintage' crunchy sound, you could also look at Orange or Vox, maybe?

    Just a thought.


  • Registered Users Posts: 547 ✭✭✭ohigg84


    How about a Marshall JCM 2000.

    Thats what I use.. Its the perfect marriage for my gibson sg's, and I'm in an AC/DC tribute band.. So its just the right combination..

    Only problem is the tubes, just have to be careful when transporting the head, make sure you get a flight case, those tubes are taking a 'knocking' whilst in transit.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,670 ✭✭✭Bluefoam


    Thanks everyone for the feedback, its very much appreciated. I've decided to go for the Class 5. I'll be buying on Thomann as there is only one model of Marshall available locally and its a transitor model. I'll also get cables, stand, strap etc there... Only minor problem is that the guitar I want isn't available here either...

    http://www.thomann.de/gb/gibson_les_paul_studio_limited_wbcr.htm

    So should I bite the bullet and get it online, or should I go for an Epiphone Standard in a local shop? Bearing in mind, the studio above is the upper limit of my budget. I'm also kinda stuck on the idea of getting a Gibson as it is the original and the guitar that many of my favourite players use + being a learner, there ain't much I'll be able to tell by playing with one in store.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,021 ✭✭✭il gatto


    Even though many will seriously disagree, if you want the Les Paul, get the Gibson online. Some of the pricier Epiphones are pretty good. The cheaper ones are not great in my experience. But the Gibson just worth the extra couple of hundred (for the quality and materials). A setup won't set you back much if you think it needs it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 856 ✭✭✭firefly08


    Gibson all the way, if it's vs. Epiphone anyway. You should read the recent thread on Gibson Les Pauls, a lot of varying opinions on the matter. But for that price, I think everyone will agree it's a good buy.

    I have that exact same model (except mine is the Faded Cherry finish - same style of finish just a different colour). They feel and sound just like the more expensive ones but are an awful lot cheaper.

    The Epiphones are good guitars for the money but there is no comparison with Gibson. They are made from cheaper wood, they have cheaper pickups, and I think cheaper machine heads too. I played one recently - it had all the fancy trim and bindings, shiny lacquered finish - it looked like a million dollars. But the first time I touched the tone controls I could tell they will not last - they're flimsy. The neck was also not the same shape as my Gibson - it felt a little thicker.

    So my attitude is, what's the point in the fancy cosmetics if it means skimping on the parts that matter? I'd say the Epiphone might be a good match for the solid state amp you mentioned, if you want to cut back on the cost. If you go for a good valve amp like the C5, you might as well get the Gibson too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 617 ✭✭✭Demeyes


    I'd say if you can afford the Gibson then just go for it. The Epiphones are good solid guitars that will do you fine for learning on and even doing gigs, but if you do end up playing a lot you'll probably find yourself wanting the Gibson eventually. It will be a nicer guitar and something you can really keep for years as a great guitar.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,483 ✭✭✭Ostrom


    Bluefoam wrote: »
    Thanks everyone for the feedback, its very much appreciated. I've decided to go for the Class 5. I'll be buying on Thomann as there is only one model of Marshall available locally and its a transitor model. I'll also get cables, stand, strap etc there... Only minor problem is that the guitar I want isn't available here either...

    http://www.thomann.de/gb/gibson_les_paul_studio_limited_wbcr.htm

    So should I bite the bullet and get it online, or should I go for an Epiphone Standard in a local shop? Bearing in mind, the studio above is the upper limit of my budget. I'm also kinda stuck on the idea of getting a Gibson as it is the original and the guitar that many of my favourite players use + being a learner, there ain't much I'll be able to tell by playing with one in store.

    Have you tried any yet?

    I cant stress how important this is - make sure you pick up a few guitars first, bring someone with you to show you how to fret a chord, or just pick out some notes if you're a complete beginner.

    Nothing will reduce your enjoyment faster than an uncomfortable guitar. I find les pauls unplayable (nothing whatsoever to do with design flaws or inferiority - they are an excellent guitar). The neck never felt right to my hands, and I couldn't stand the weight. Equally, many find strats or thinner necks unplayable.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,658 ✭✭✭Halloween Jack


    Sorry to hi-jack the thread slightly, but what are people's opinions of lp studio's in general?

    I'll be in the market for something new later in the year and having a strat and tele, thought a lp studio might be an option. Just wondering how much bang for your buck you get with these instruments.

    Im by no means an elite player or anything, so any advice appreciated.......


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,021 ✭✭✭il gatto


    The only difference between the Studio and Standard is cosmetics really. Except many of the Studios have a mahogany top rather than maple. It probably saves a few quid but isn't an issue. Many of the Customs also had a mahogany cap. If gives a slightly darker tone but it's not really noticeable once your playing through an amp. They're a great value guitar these days. Years ago they weren't that much cheaper so slot of people jut saved a few quid extra for a Standard. Nowadays they seem very affordable by comparison.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,126 ✭✭✭darrenw5094


    Can't believe the JVM was not mentioned. A used head can be bought for just over €600 if you look around.

    4 channels with 3 modes, eq for each channel, 2 master volumes for solo boost.
    Best Marshall in years.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,232 ✭✭✭goblin59


    Can't believe the JVM was not mentioned. A used head can be bought for just over €600 if you look around.

    4 channels with 3 modes, eq for each channel, 2 master volumes for solo boost.
    Best Marshall in years.

    I would actually argue that the DSL is better,
    although it only has two channels and one EQ setting, the sound will be far less deteriorated as it has a smaller signal path within the amp.

    Theres also far less to break or go wrong within a DSL as it has a very basic (compared to other amp models) internal layout.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,232 ✭✭✭goblin59


    il gatto wrote: »
    The only difference between the Studio and Standard is cosmetics really. Except many of the Studios have a mahogany top rather than maple. It probably saves a few quid but isn't an issue. Many of the Customs also had a mahogany cap. If gives a slightly darker tone but it's not really noticeable once your playing through an amp. They're a great value guitar these days. Years ago they weren't that much cheaper so slot of people jut saved a few quid extra for a Standard. Nowadays they seem very affordable by comparison.

    The pickups are also different, the standard has high output hum-buckers (burst-buckers pro) that will drive a tube amp and get that traditional gibson through marshall sound.
    The studio has 498T's in the bridge and a 490T in the neck. These hum-buckers I found did not drive my marshall DSL very well at all and required more gain to be turned up on the amp, they also sound very fat.
    The studio does sound amazing through studio recordings though.

    Both guitars have maple top and mahogany bodies,

    the finger board on a standard is rosewood though.

    All of the info i wrote here btw comes from personal experience with both a standard and a studio (both gibson, not epiphone) through a DSL with the same settings.

    as well as

    http://www2.gibson.com/Products/Electric-Guitars/Les-Paul/Gibson-USA/Les-Paul-Studio/Specs.aspx

    http://www2.gibson.com/Products/Electric-Guitars/Les-Paul/Gibson-USA/2008-Les-Paul-Standard/Specs.aspx


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,232 ✭✭✭goblin59


    tbh i would get the studio and put a new set of pickups in it, find out what pickups were used on the track of what you think has the best guitar sound using a marshall and get them. Rewiring a guitar isn't too hard,

    theres two links that can help you with this, one is a colour guide for various pickups that arn't seymour duncan and the other is the wireing diagram for Les pauls
    (courtesy of seymour duncan)


    http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/wiring-diagrams/schematics.php?schematic=color_codes

    http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/wiring-diagrams/schematics.php?schematic=2h_2v_2t_3w


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,021 ✭✭✭il gatto


    goblin59 wrote: »
    il gatto wrote: »
    The only difference between the Studio and Standard is cosmetics really. Except many of the Studios have a mahogany top rather than maple. It probably saves a few quid but isn't an issue. Many of the Customs also had a mahogany cap. If gives a slightly darker tone but it's not really noticeable once your playing through an amp. They're a great value guitar these days. Years ago they weren't that much cheaper so slot of people jut saved a few quid extra for a Standard. Nowadays they seem very affordable by comparison.

    The pickups are also different, the standard has high output hum-buckers (burst-buckers pro) that will drive a tube amp and get that traditional gibson through marshall sound.
    The studio has 498T's in the bridge and a 490T in the neck. These hum-buckers I found did not drive my marshall DSL very well at all and required more gain to be turned up on the amp, they also sound very fat.
    The studio does sound amazing through studio recordings though.

    Both guitars have maple top and mahogany bodies,

    the finger board on a standard is rosewood though.

    All of the info i wrote here btw comes from personal experience with both a standard and a studio (both gibson, not epiphone) through a DSL with the same settings.

    as well as

    http://www2.gibson.com/Products/Electric-Guitars/Les-Paul/Gibson-USA/Les-Paul-Studio/Specs.aspx

    http://www2.gibson.com/Products/Electric-Guitars/Les-Paul/Gibson-USA/2008-Les-Paul-Standard/Specs.aspx

    Those pickups were in the LP Standard a few years back. I don't have an issue with the drive level on them. I suppose it depends on what sound you're going for. Also, some of the Studios now have Burstbuckers or a combination. Also, rosewood is still used on many of the Studio models. All mahogany models were still available until very recently.
    Actually just checked the OP's link again. That Studio has the maple top, a maple cap and comes with Burstbucker Pros.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,021 ✭✭✭il gatto


    goblin59 wrote: »
    tbh i would get the studio and put a new set of pickups in it, find out what pickups were used on the track of what you think has the best guitar sound using a marshall and get them. Rewiring a guitar isn't too hard,

    theres two links that can help you with this, one is a colour guide for various pickups that arn't seymour duncan and the other is the wireing diagram for Les pauls
    (courtesy of seymour duncan)


    http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/wiring-diagrams/schematics.php?schematic=color_codes

    http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/wiring-diagrams/schematics.php?schematic=2h_2v_2t_3w

    The guitar he linked to comes with Burstbucker Pros. Tbh I don't have a problem with any of the pickup options on them. I find pickups with a slightly lower output break up in a different way. More classic rock, bluesy. A lot of people reckon the 50s Les Pauls get their tone from the pickups ageing and losing some of their output over the decades.
    Either way, I think it's not worth changing pickups (IMO) until you've played the guitar for a few months or years and decide if you think it's lacking in some way.
    I like the fat tone of The 490s and 498s but I suppose it depends what amp you're using and whether it has a bright edge already. I find my JCM800 has that brightness which meshes well with the fatness. It's all very fine margins though.
    Really though it's all down to people's individual taste. Either way, that Studio looks like a nice guitar for the money.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,601 ✭✭✭✭Squidgy Black


    I think the point is being missed on the OP's requests in regards to all the suggestions of large second hand amps.

    He's stated in his posts that's he's looking for a small tube amp, and that he's based in the Middle East. I'm assuming that from spending a few months in Turkey, there's absolutely no second hand market, certainly no adverts.ie ;)

    And for the guitar, yes get the Studio. It's a guitar you more than likely won't outgrow, and would be a perfect beginners guitar. Never mind the pickups, just concentrate on the playing. The 490T and 498T are perfectly fine pickups in my experience, unless you're doing high gain or modern rock.


  • Registered Users Posts: 880 ✭✭✭Paolo_M


    stetyrrell wrote: »
    I think the point is being missed on the OP's requests in regards to all the suggestions of large second hand amps.

    He's stated in his posts that's he's looking for a small tube amp, and that he's based in the Middle East. I'm assuming that from spending a few months in Turkey, there's absolutely no second hand market, certainly no adverts.ie ;)

    And for the guitar, yes get the Studio. It's a guitar you more than likely won't outgrow, and would be a perfect beginners guitar. Never mind the pickups, just concentrate on the playing. The 490T and 498T are perfectly fine pickups in my experience, unless you're doing high gain or modern rock.

    I did give him pretty a decent list of 5 watters, all subjectively better than the Class 5 and better value.
    There seems to be something about that Marshall logo though.


    As a general comment, not directed at the OP, I think way to many guitarist listen to the logo on the amp and not the amp itself.

    I'll wager that if most people were blindfolded and played through each of those amps and asked which they preferred the sound of, the Class 5 would not be picked any more than chance would allow for.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,670 ✭✭✭Bluefoam


    Paolo_M wrote: »
    I did give him pretty a decent list of 5 watters, all subjectively better than the Class 5 and better value.
    There seems to be something about that Marshall logo though.

    As a general comment, not directed at the OP, I think way to many guitarist listen to the logo on the amp and not the amp itself.
    Paolo, I understand your point, but I am absolutely listening to the logo. I don't have the resource of people around me here who have used and will give me advice on each item. I am relying on what I've seen of professional players, what they use & also what my friends aspired to when we were younger - because they would buy the cheaper gear and invariably it was not the best... That was part of the journey at the time, but now I'm a couple of years older, I want to learn a few songs and the fundamentals, I want to have fun with it... I can't afford the very best of everything, but I can afford to get some relatively nice gear. I've worked hard for it & I want to buy into the brands... I'm not an expert, nor do I expect to be. But some day I'd like to be able to hold my own... I also live in an apartment, my gear will be visible to any guests & I'd like to have stuff that doesn't look ****/industrial/OTT, the Marshall kinda fits that requirement - I've emailed Thomann to see if they can get me a cream one, but I won't hold my breath.

    Anyways, heres my pick list so far. Just the fundamentals... Feedback appreciated:

    http://www.thomann.de/gb/gibson_les_paul_studio_limited_wbcr.htm
    http://www.thomann.de/gb/marshall_class_501.htm
    http://www.thomann.de/gb/the_sssnake_gitarrenkabel_textil.htm
    http://www.thomann.de/gb/planet_waves_50b06_gitarrengurt_tweed.htm
    http://www.thomann.de/ie/millenium_gs2001e.htm
    http://www.thomann.de/gb/gibson_potiknoepfe.htm

    The knobs on the guitar are just a bit plasticy... so an extra tenner for knobs wont break the bank...


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