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Prison officer killed in suspect dissident ambush

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭GRMA


    Fair enough, I was a bit harsh, but I think his family were wrong. Both communities should be united over this, excluding Sinn Féin entirely doesn't help this. I can understand not wanting MMG there but his presence as a republican leader would help, imo. Or anyone from SF, even one of the younger reps.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    GRMA wrote: »
    Fair enough, I was a bit harsh, but I think his family were wrong. Both communities should be united over this, excluding Sinn Féin entirely doesn't help this. I can understand not wanting MMG there but his presence as a republican leader would help, imo. Or anyone from SF, even one of the younger reps.

    I am sure there will be quite a few from the catholic community attending the funeral, regardless of who is or is not invited, this is a private matter for the family.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭GRMA


    junder wrote: »
    Wow, I can't Actully believe that somebody would stoop so low as to attack this family for choosing who can or can not attend the funeral of thier loved one. That's low
    As I said, fair enough it was harsh and in hindsight I shouldnt have said it.

    But its a major sign of things today for a republican like MMG to want to attend the funeral of a PO, especially one who worked in Long Kesh during the hunger strikes. Throwing the gesture back in his face is not the right thing to do in my opinion, as I said it should be a time for the communities to unify, not stand apart. Unify like they did after Kerr was shot.


    Rather pathetic to be reporting back to your pals on PULSE what I said, I guess I can expect threatening PMs in my inbox so and an attempt to track me down on facebook,as usually happens.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    GRMA wrote: »
    As I said, fair enough it was harsh and in hindsight I shouldnt have said it.

    But its a major sign of things today for a republican like MMG to want to attend the funeral of a PO, especially one who worked in Long Kesh during the hunger strikes. Throwing the gesture back in his face is not the right thing to do in my opinion, as I said it should be a time for the communities to unify, not stand apart. Unify like they did after Kerr was shot.


    Rather pathetic to be reporting back to your pals on PULSE what I said, I guess I can expect threatening PMs in my inbox so and an attempt to track me down on facebook,as usually happens.


    I think in this case I will use the words of the dissidents themselves for the reasons why Martin should not be attending mr blacks funeral


    "Rory Dougan, a dissident spokesman, who said of provos republican terrorism post the Good Friday Agreement: “If we were wrong now, then they were wrong for all them years: and if we are right now then they are wrong"

    As for pulse well I'm not going to apologise for drawing attention to reprehensible posts such as yours but you should have noticed that I neither named you or provided a link to the thread. However if anybody was to come on to this site and send threating messages, I am sure there is a mechanism for getting them barred, and if your Facebook details can be got from your boards.ie user name better choose a less obvious user name. The name junder has no personal connection to me, it was a name I picked randomly from a book and is certinly not listed on my facebook account in anyway


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,662 ✭✭✭RMD


    junder wrote: »
    Can you prove it was'nt sectarain? Or is your proof only that they previously killed catholic police officers. Seems this entire thread is proof of why this prison officer made such a good target, since on the one hand, killing a Protestant is really going to provoke the loyalist community, but because he is a prison officer means people such as yourself can argue that he was killed just because of his job. Of course it's the same argument the provies used when they were killing members of my community before.
    End of the day you know and I know and yes even the dissidents know that unless they escalate the conflict to a point which brings the army back onto the streets, they are finished.

    The dissidents are pretty much finished in terms of support, nobody wants them around except for the knuckle dragging republicans still stuck in the 70's. I think Westminister are clever enough to never deploy the BAF to Northern Ireland again, it would be a propaganda victory for the dissidents which is the last thing anybody wants. Their deployment of the SRR was and is the smartest idea IMO, try to gather hard evidence on the dissidents and lock as many up as possible.
    GRMA wrote: »
    As I said, fair enough it was harsh and in hindsight I shouldnt have said it.

    But its a major sign of things today for a republican like MMG to want to attend the funeral of a PO, especially one who worked in Long Kesh during the hunger strikes. Throwing the gesture back in his face is not the right thing to do in my opinion, as I said it should be a time for the communities to unify, not stand apart. Unify like they did after Kerr was shot.


    Rather pathetic to be reporting back to your pals on PULSE what I said, I guess I can expect threatening PMs in my inbox so and an attempt to track me down on facebook,as usually happens.

    This is the funeral of a man savagely murdered, not a political event for reunification. Let the family make their decisions on who will attend and who wont. SF can release their condemnations and extend their condolences, the funeral is for the family to grieve and not a platform for some political story.

    Can we keep the pathetic digs out of this and try hold a mature discussion? If he went to pulse so be it, leave it on pulse then and don't drag this topic off on an unrelated tangent.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,775 ✭✭✭Death and Taxes


    GRMA wrote: »
    The family won't let any SF members attend the funeral. His orange brethren probably didnt want any taigs around the place.

    This should be an occasion for both sides to unify, not stand apart.
    No this is a private family funeral, the families wishes should be respected and without snide remarks about "taigs", I'm sure there will be members of the SDLP, Alliance etc present.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,775 ✭✭✭Death and Taxes


    GRMA wrote: »
    You saw the fuss when Orange men went to Kerrs funeral.
    I saw that they went, despite the fuss!


  • Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,780 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    GRMA wrote: »
    ...I guess I can expect threatening PMs in my inbox...
    With my admin hat on for a second: if you get threatening PMs, report them. We don't tolerate the PM system being used for threatening or harassment purposes, by anyone, to anyone.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    RMD wrote: »
    The dissidents are pretty much finished in terms of support, nobody wants them around except for the knuckle dragging republicans still stuck in the 70's. I think Westminister are clever enough to never deploy the BAF to Northern Ireland again, it would be a propaganda victory for the dissidents which is the last thing anybody wants. Their deployment of the SRR was and is the smartest idea IMO, try to gather hard evidence on the dissidents and lock as many up as possible.



    This is the funeral of a man savagely murdered, not a political event for reunification. Let the family make their decisions on who will attend and who wont. SF can release their condemnations and extend their condolences, the funeral is for the family to grieve and not a platform for some political story.

    Can we keep the pathetic digs out of this and try hold a mature discussion? If he went to pulse so be it, leave it on pulse then and don't drag this topic off on an unrelated tangent.

    Well said. It's indeed tragic. Nobody needs the political/sectarian groups interfering to gain a platform. Protestant, catholic, SF or loyalist, .......... who gives a monkeys,....just labels. We are all human beings and should treat each other with the respect that we as individuals would want.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,678 ✭✭✭Crooked Jack


    No this is a private family funeral, the families wishes should be respected and without snide remarks about "taigs", I'm sure there will be members of the SDLP, Alliance etc present.

    Well, it's not really is it. There are representatives from the northern, southern and british governments, the northern and southern prison services, the police, the gardai and almost every political party in the north.
    The Deputy first minister condemned this murder in the strongest possible terms and offered to attend but was told he wasn't welcome. I believe this sends out the wrong message, one of segregation and division at a time when unity is what is called for.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder



    Well, it's not really is it. There are representatives from the northern, southern and british governments, the northern and southern prison services, the police, the gardai and almost every political party in the north.
    The Deputy first minister condemned this murder in the strongest possible terms and offered to attend but was told he wasn't welcome. I believe this sends out the wrong message, one of segregation and division at a time when unity is what is called for.

    Who attends the funeral is the family's buisness. The orgnization Martin represents used to kill prison officers some could have been friends if the black family. Will he condemn those killings or where they ok, bit hypocritical to condemn the dissidents for doing exactly what the provies did themselves


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,678 ✭✭✭Crooked Jack


    junder wrote: »
    Who attends the funeral is the family's buisness. The orgnization Martin represents used to kill prison officers some could have been friends if the black family.

    The organisation he represents? Which organisation would that be. The northern executive as DFM? Who did they kill? Or perhaps you mean Sinn Fein. When did Sinn Fein ever shoot a prison officer?
    Imagine the outrage if this had have been Martin McGuinness' attitude. "Well he was part of an organisation that used to beat the living shit out of my friends in jail so fuck him." There would quite rightly be uproar.
    It is however absolutely the family's business who attend and I'm not for one second disputing that. Im just saying welcoming everyone except the DFM sends a backwards looking and divisive message at a time when all aspects of Irish society should be uniting against these killers.
    junder wrote: »
    Will he condemn those killings or where they ok, bit hypocritical to condemn the dissidents for doing exactly what the provies did themselves

    McGuinness has condemned this killing in the strongest possible terms. He has quite rightly made no reference to killings from 20/30/40 years ago during completely different circumstances. why would he?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,775 ✭✭✭Death and Taxes


    Well, it's not really is it. There are representatives from the northern, southern and british governments, the northern and southern prison services, the police, the gardai and almost every political party in the north.
    The Deputy first minister condemned this murder in the strongest possible terms and offered to attend but was told he wasn't welcome. I believe this sends out the wrong message, one of segregation and division at a time when unity is what is called for.
    I note you carefully chose to ignore the snide and insentive "taig" reference by the poster I was quoting.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,355 ✭✭✭gallag



    The organisation he represents? Which organisation would that be. The northern executive as DFM? Who did they kill? Or perhaps you mean Sinn Fein. When did Sinn Fein ever shoot a prison officer?
    Imagine the outrage if this had have been Martin McGuinness' attitude. "Well he was part of an organisation that used to beat the living shit out of my friends in jail so fuck him." There would quite rightly be uproar.
    It is however absolutely the family's business who attend and I'm not for one second disputing that. Im just saying welcoming everyone except the DFM sends a backwards looking and divisive message at a time when all aspects of Irish society should be uniting against these killers.



    McGuinness has condemned this killing in the strongest possible terms. He has quite rightly made no reference to killings from 20/30/40 years ago during completely different circumstances. why would he?
    You guys seem more offended about this than about the murder. If one of the solders who murdered people on bloody Sunday got into politics, how ridiculous would you find people who feigned disgust at a nationalist family who lost loved ones on bloody Sunday for refusing entry to said solder to the funeral of a family member murdered by a loyalist hit squad. Hopefully you can get over the offence the black family caused.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭GRMA


    gallag wrote: »
    You guys seem more offended about this than about the murder. If one of the solders who murdered people on bloody Sunday got into politics, how ridiculous would you find people who feigned disgust at a nationalist family who lost loved ones on bloody Sunday for refusing entry to said solder to the funeral of a family member murdered by a loyalist hit squad. Hopefully you can get over the offence the black family caused.

    Don't talk rubbish. if anything good were to come from this horrible event it could have been the unity like we saw after Kerr was killed.

    This plays into the bloodthirsty loyalist line that this was sectarian and the family doing this doesn't help things.

    Loyalists attended the funeral and they killed PO's too, and haven't even disarmed.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭GRMA


    junder wrote: »
    I think in this case I will use the words of the dissidents themselves for the reasons why Martin should not be attending mr blacks funeral


    "Rory Dougan, a dissident spokesman, who said of provos republican terrorism post the Good Friday Agreement: “If we were wrong now, then they were wrong for all them years: and if we are right now then they are wrong"

    As for pulse well I'm not going to apologise for drawing attention to reprehensible posts such as yours but you should have noticed that I neither named you or provided a link to the thread. However if anybody was to come on to this site and send threating messages, I am sure there is a mechanism for getting them barred, and if your Facebook details can be got from your boards.ie user name better choose a less obvious user name. The name junder has no personal connection to me, it was a name I picked randomly from a book and is certinly not listed on my facebook account in anyway

    You did.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,678 ✭✭✭Crooked Jack


    gallag wrote: »
    You guys seem more offended about this than about the murder. If one of the solders who murdered people on bloody Sunday got into politics, how ridiculous would you find people who feigned disgust at a nationalist family who lost loved ones on bloody Sunday for refusing entry to said solder to the funeral of a family member murdered by a loyalist hit squad. Hopefully you can get over the offence the black family caused.

    I'm sorry are you suggesting Martin McGuinness shot Mr Black or a member of his family? Because that's the only way your argument is in any way valid.
    I have at no point claimed to be offended or disgusted by the position the Black family has taken in fact if you read back you'll see I agreed wholeheartedly that it's up to them who attends the funeral.
    All i said was that very publicly making clear that representatives of one party would not be welcome was a divisive move and not one in keeping with the united front parties here have been putting up in the face of these killings.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,678 ✭✭✭Crooked Jack


    I note you carefully chose to ignore the snide and insentive "taig" reference by the poster I was quoting.

    I ignored it because I dont think it's accurate. If you have a problem with what somebody else said take it up with them dont use it to deflect from the point I'm making


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭GRMA


    I ignored it because I dont think it's accurate. If you have a problem with what somebody else said take it up with them dont use it to deflect from the point I'm making
    As I said earlier I shouldn't have said it, and I retract it.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,355 ✭✭✭gallag


    GRMA wrote: »

    Don't talk rubbish. if anything good were to come from this horrible event it could have been the unity like we saw after Kerr was killed.

    This plays into the bloodthirsty loyalist line that this was sectarian and the family doing this doesn't help things.

    Loyalists attended the funeral and they killed PO's too, and haven't even disarmed.
    Loyalists this, blood thirsty loyalists, and the family causing outrage. Poor prisoners. Strip searches. Blagh Blagh. I have not heard you condeme the dissidents and say what they did was not justified as strongly as you are condemning the black family. You defend or at least try to justify the dissidents actions while attacking loyalists and the black family.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭GRMA


    gallag wrote: »
    Loyalists this, blood thirsty loyalists, and the family causing outrage. Poor prisoners. Strip searches. Blagh Blagh. I have not heard you condeme the dissidents and say what they did was not justified as strongly as you are condemning the black family. You defend or at least try to justify the dissidents actions while attacking loyalists and the black family.
    Don't talk rubbish, I have condemned it and unreservedly do so. I think it was a disgrace.

    Just because you dont agree with me there's no need to label me a dissdent supporter. That's lazy.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,355 ✭✭✭gallag



    I'm sorry are you suggesting Martin McGuinness shot Mr Black or a member of his family? Because that's the only way your argument is in any way valid.
    I have at no point claimed to be offended or disgusted by the position the Black family has taken in fact if you read back you'll see I agreed wholeheartedly that it's up to them who attends the funeral.
    All i said was that very publicly making clear that representatives of one party would not be welcome was a divisive move and not one in keeping with the united front parties here have been putting up in the face of these killings.
    Nonsense, I made an analogy that I am sure you under stood. I will make it clearer. If one of the solders who was working on bloody Sunday got into politics, let's say the leader of the pup, and then one of the family's who had been affected by bloody sunday, either directly or indirectly then lost a loved one to a loyalist hit squad, would you be critical of the family's decision to not welcome the solders to the funeral?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,355 ✭✭✭gallag


    GRMA wrote: »
    Don't talk rubbish, I have condemned it and unreservedly do so. I think it was a disgrace.

    Just because you dont agree with me there's no need to label me a dissdent supporter. That's lazy.
    You are but, it's all here in black and white. Look at your language, sympathy and putting logic to the actions of the dissidents while harsh language, strong condemnation and a negative stance on all things loyalist or the black family. You have used more words explaining why the black family is wrong than you have condemning the actions of the murderers. You have used words with negative connotations with loyalists I.e blood thirsty while avoiding and strong negatives for the dissidents. You have spent more time telling tails of the dangers of mistreating prisoners than of the dangers of shooting at a car on the motorway.

    It's all in black and white, and while you might believe you don't support the dissidents you have showed them more support than the victims in this thread.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,678 ✭✭✭Crooked Jack


    gallag wrote: »
    Nonsense, I made an analogy that I am sure you under stood. I will make it clearer. If one of the solders who was working on bloody Sunday got into politics, let's say the leader of the pup, and then one of the family's who had been affected by bloody sunday, either directly or indirectly then lost a loved one to a loyalist hit squad, would you be critical of the family's decision to not welcome the solders to the funeral?

    Firstly, that is not what you said. you said this

    "If one of the solders who murdered people on bloody Sunday got into politics, how ridiculous would you find people who feigned disgust at a nationalist family who lost loved ones on bloody Sunday for refusing entry to said solder to the funeral of a family member murdered by a loyalist hit squad. Hopefully you can get over the offence the black family caused."

    A totally different scenario. You have now realised that and are back tracking with this new scenario, which, doesnt apply to this situation either.
    Unless you are aware of some incident wherein Martin McGuinness shot a colleague or family member of Mr Black your comment is nonsensical and even dafter than the usual whataboutery we hear on boards.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    GRMA wrote: »

    You did.

    I made an earlier link to the thread long before you wrote your misguided post, I do that quite often in the hope that other unionists / loyalists would join in debates on this site, it can be tiresome being the only unionist. I do this because I know that the moderation on this site is quite robust, so anybody yahoo coming on spouting sectarian rubbish will be barred fairly quickly, but no direct link was made to you or you post


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,428 ✭✭✭.jacksparrow.


    junder wrote: »

    I made an earlier link to the thread long before you wrote your misguided post, I do that quite often in the hope that other unionists / loyalists would join in debates on this site, it can be tiresome being the only unionist. I do this because I know that the moderation on this site is quite robust, so anybody yahoo coming on spouting sectarian rubbish will be barred fairly quickly, but no direct link was made to you or you post

    But you're the one who made this into a sectarian debate?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,355 ✭✭✭gallag



    Firstly, that is not what you said. you said this

    "If one of the solders who murdered people on bloody Sunday got into politics, how ridiculous would you find people who feigned disgust at a nationalist family who lost loved ones on bloody Sunday for refusing entry to said solder to the funeral of a family member murdered by a loyalist hit squad. Hopefully you can get over the offence the black family caused."

    A totally different scenario. You have now realised that and are back tracking with this new scenario, which, doesnt apply to this situation either.
    Unless you are aware of some incident wherein Martin McGuinness shot a colleague or family member of Mr Black your comment is nonsensical and even dafter than the usual whataboutery we hear on boards.
    Nonsense. It is a sound analogy. Martin was a member of the IRA as the solder was a member of the baf. The soilder would be associated with the murder of innocent people just as Martin would be associated with the murder of innocent people.
    Surly you can understand my point, surly you can agree that it is ridiculous to be focusing on the black family not wanting IRA men who killed/assoseated with killers of colleagues and friends of Mr black at his funeral? ????.


  • Registered Users Posts: 381 ✭✭480905


    Whatever the colour , creed or religion of the people who carried out this attack, it changes nothing of the fact that they are guilty of murdering a man on his way to do a days work. A family man, wife, Kids, probably had a dog.... Former prisoners have expressed revulsion at this man being attacked. "A pure gentleman" one was quoted as saying.... Now to those who are separating this into a political battle , please desist as you are slurrying the memory of a family man, Orange or Green , his religion is irrelevant now, who was murdered by thugs.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,678 ✭✭✭Crooked Jack


    gallag wrote: »
    Nonsense. It is a sound analogy. Martin was a member of the IRA as the solder was a member of the baf. The soilder would be associated with the murder of innocent people just as Martin would be associated with the murder of innocent people.
    Surly you can understand my point, surly you can agree that it is ridiculous to be focusing on the black family not wanting IRA men who killed/assoseated with killers of colleagues and friends of Mr black at his funeral? ????.

    It absolutely is not and anybody can see that by just reading through the last few posts. I cannot understand your point because it is nonsensical, however, I can understand why you would want to make such a point as it suits your own ends, sadly however, it's just not one that is based in reality.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    This thread looks it's descending into standard NI trench warfare - which will attract the standard "fine tooth comb and ban hammer" moderation result if not walked away from pretty sharpish.

    moderately,
    Scofflaw


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