claim

harr · 02-01-2014 1:09am #1

I know not much advice can be given but someone might give me a quick answer on something...
My brother in law was with us over the Christmas with his wife and kids,two days before xmas my brother in law went down to the local garage to pump up a go cart tyre which exploded in his hand breaking two of his fingers.
He claims the gauge was faulty as it was reading a wrong pressure,to be honest i just think he was not paying attention to what he was at.
The garage in question is only two pumps and a post office in a small village and the owner is a sound man in his 60s and will allways help any one out with a car problem be it changing bulbs and the likes.
The brother is hell bent on making a claim and want all sorts of paper work from the owner calibration certs and maintenance certs for the compressor and rings him every few days for this paper work,he even reported him to the hsa the poor owner is in a heap with worry and i know the gauge was working fine as i only used it the day before and cctv shows about 10 cars and a few bikes using the same day.
I think its a scummy thing to do,its a well run old fashioned garage where there is free air,water,toilets and a washer for your windscreen.
Do any of you think he might have a case,he has spoken to some of them personal injury solicitors already and they are filling his head with some very high figures he might get.

sorry for long post.

coylemj · 02-01-2014 2:54am

The garage owner is not obliged to provide the guy with anything so all that mullarkey about calibration certs is nonsense. Tell the garage owner to give the guy nothing and tell him that if he wants to go to law then he can deal with the garage owner through his solicitor.

It will be a condition of the garage owner's pubic liability insurance that he not enter into correspondence with anyone where there is a potential claim so it's very much in his interest not to give the guy anything as it might undermine his position if a claim does materialise.

If I was the garage owner I'd be asking your brother-in-law for the make and model of the go-kart tyre, I suspect it wasn't able to handle the pressure and as you say the guy wasn't watching the pressure gauge so it just exploded.

harr · 02-01-2014 9:37am

He has the info for the tyre as it was new and was putting it together for his sons xmas gift it states that the tyre can take 30psi but he is claiming that the gauge was only reading 20 when it burst.
I know the gauge was working ok as i had used a day before hand and the day after it happened.
Thanks for the advice

Aka Ishur · 02-01-2014 9:44am

Completely OT but 30psi is nuts in a go kart tyre....

dr.fuzzenstein · 02-01-2014 10:17am

Well, I'm sure the guy can make a successful claim if he provides proof of the readout of the gauge at the time of the explosion. Oh wait...
Also, he should hand over the tire to an independent scrutineers that can verify there wasn't a defect with the tyre, maybe there was and he should get onto the tyre manufacturer.
Some people just have an owie and smell money.

Saruman · 02-01-2014 10:28am

Aka Ishur wrote: »

Completely OT but 30psi is nuts in a go kart tyre....

Why? It's pretty typical for a bike which brings me to the point that most garages don't allow you to use air for non cars. This is presumably because if the risk such as what happened.

The blame here lies with your (OP) brother in law in my non legal and thus pointless observation.

dr.fuzzenstein · 02-01-2014 10:29am

Saruman wrote: »

Why? It's pretty typical for a bike which brings me to the point that most garages don't allow you to use air for non cars. This is presumably because if the risk such as what happened.

The blame here lies with your (OP) brother in law in my non legal and thus pointless observation.

Good point!
OP, check out if the garage has a sign up that says not for non-car use.

Aka Ishur · 02-01-2014 10:37am

Saruman wrote: »

Why? It's pretty typical for a bike which brings me to the point that most garages don't allow you to use air for non cars. This is presumably because if the risk such as what happened.

The blame here lies with your (OP) brother in law in my non legal and thus pointless observation.

Excellent point about non car use.

As an aside, a bike tyre would be at 80psi (mountain bike) to 120psi (racing bike), the racing kart I had would have tyres at 15-20 psi depending on the weather, any higher and it would be like driving on an ice rink.

harr · 02-01-2014 11:12am

The assembly instructions that he showed me said 30psi it's a big enough go-cart.
No sign up saying for car use only, a lot us locals use it for a lot of things from bikes to paddling pools.
He leaves it on the whole time so even if shop is closed, so it's handy for early morning's.
It's still going to cost the owner if he has to get a law firm involved.

Caliden · 02-01-2014 11:16am

Sounds like a lot of the onus of proof is on your brother in law.

Bepolite · 02-01-2014 12:21pm

harr wrote: »

The assembly instructions that he showed me said 30psi it's a big enough go-cart.
No sign up saying for car use only, a lot us locals use it for a lot of things from bikes to paddling pools.
He leaves it on the whole time so even if shop is closed, so it's handy for early morning's.
It's still going to cost the owner if he has to get a law firm involved.

He'll want to stop doing that in case someone does something stupid. While I'm normally with the victim in injury claims this does seem to be a case of someone ruining it for other people.

Ken. · 02-01-2014 2:56pm

Just because the tyre is new doesn't mean its not defective. I've seen brand new car tyres give out after 10 miles and others that last 100,000 miles.
To get a car tyre checked for defects is over €1000. They go to somewhere in Germany. A friend recently had a problem and that's what it cost him. He got the money back but he had to pay up front with no guarantee the results would go his way.

coylemj · 02-01-2014 5:15pm

harr wrote: »

It's still going to cost the owner if he has to get a law firm involved.

Only if he has no public liability insurance in which case the cost of the lawyers will be the least of his worries. Leaving that equipment switched on 24 x 7 may be a convenience for the locals but I doubt the insurance company will be impressed.

harr · 02-01-2014 6:04pm

coylemj wrote: »

Only if he has no public liability insurance in which case the cost of the lawyers will be the least of his worries. Leaving that equipment switched on 24 x 7 may be a convenience for the locals but I doubt the insurance company will be impressed.

He has full public liability insurance ok,in all the years he has been there he has never had to turn off the compresser or worry about it, it's a sad place this country is coming to when you have a little f..k like my brother in law trying to squeeze a few quid out of a working man who is really only pottering around to keep himself busy and have something to get up in the morning for.
I would say if he got ten customers a day he would be lucky. :mad:

dr.fuzzenstein · 02-01-2014 8:36pm

harr wrote: »

He has full public liability insurance ok,in all the years he has been there he has never had to turn off the compresser or worry about it, it's a sad place this country is coming to when you have a little f..k like my brother in law trying to squeeze a few quid out of a working man who is really only pottering around to keep himself busy and have something to get up in the morning for.
I would say if he got ten customers a day he would be lucky. :mad:

It's all part of the plan by large multinationals. Add more red tape, regulations, costs and hassle and be willing to accept sky-high fees for rent, rates, staff, solicitors, accountants and consultants. Because you will need them all to just run the business to be compliant with basic regulations, nevermind anything else. Huge turnover will see millions in profit even with wafer thin margins.
Governments are only too happy to oblige, under the guise of "doing everything properly" and in the end, those big boys will pay loads of tax. (Hah, look at Google)
Solicitors are only to happy to fan the flames of that, because a massive contract for an international firm will bring in more money than doing a bit of paperwork for a two-bit local shop every few years.
This deliberately creates a business environment that wipes out small businesses, because they can't keep up with it all. Or if they do, one such incident and it's good-buy mom and pop and hello large multinational.
And people who decide to milk the system for themselves are just adding to that.
Just look at any high street and count how many businesses are not only Irish, but small, local and independent. You won't find many.
With so many laws today, we can all fall foul of them, sometimes people can be persuaded to step back from a certain course of action, if it is pointed out to them that their own affairs are less than pristine...

enricoh · 02-01-2014 9:38pm

they wouldnt be coming back near my house next cristmas after that crap, whether they claim now or not. broke my wrist playing ball years ago , who do i sue?!
the oul lad is probably thinking of quitting now with the worry of all that n it'll be 10 mile to the nearest bland applegreen - thats progress!

the tyres are probably 2 ply and anything over 20 psi is pushing it. i put 25 on a wheelbarrow tyre before n it popped in the back of my car. u just send off the guage off n get it calibrated. my moneys on a crap tyre - unless its a berg go kart - the ferrari of karts!

harr · 02-01-2014 10:26pm

enricoh wrote: »

they wouldnt be coming back near my house next cristmas after that crap, whether they claim now or not. broke my wrist playing ball years ago , who do i sue?!
the oul lad is probably thinking of quitting now with the worry of all that n it'll be 10 mile to the nearest bland applegreen - thats progress!

the tyres are probably 2 ply and anything over 20 psi is pushing it. i put 25 on a wheelbarrow tyre before n it popped in the back of my car. u just send off the guage off n get it calibrated. my moneys on a crap tyre - unless its a berg go kart - the ferrari of karts!

I could tell he is worried about it,the brother in law is a wanker anyway but this is taking it to far,it's over 10 miles to the nearest branded station nobody there checking your oil and water or giving the lights a quick clean.
His Nephew helped him type up a report today for his insurer as they requested just in case he does put in a claim which I have no doubt he will.
The HSA also advised him to change the gauge and to keep the old for inspection again in case of legal action.
I will get the wife to have another word with her brother to see what way he is thinking,but I know he had another appointment with solicitor today so he could wright up a report and to view medical records.

johnnyskeleton · 02-01-2014 11:20pm

harr wrote: »

I know not much advice can be given but someone might give me a quick answer on something...
My brother in law was with us over the Christmas with his wife and kids,two days before xmas my brother in law went down to the local garage to pump up a go cart tyre which exploded in his hand breaking two of his fingers.
He claims the gauge was faulty as it was reading a wrong pressure,to be honest i just think he was not paying attention to what he was at.
The garage in question is only two pumps and a post office in a small village and the owner is a sound man in his 60s and will allways help any one out with a car problem be it changing bulbs and the likes.
The brother is hell bent on making a claim and want all sorts of paper work from the owner calibration certs and maintenance certs for the compressor and rings him every few days for this paper work,he even reported him to the hsa the poor owner is in a heap with worry and i know the gauge was working fine as i only used it the day before and cctv shows about 10 cars and a few bikes using the same day.
I think its a scummy thing to do,its a well run old fashioned garage where there is free air,water,toilets and a washer for your windscreen.
Do any of you think he might have a case,he has spoken to some of them personal injury solicitors already and they are filling his head with some very high figures he might get.

sorry for long post.

Tell him to get an independent engineer to look at the pump. That way he will know for sure whether it was faulty or not, and won't just be thinking that it might be. Of course, it's one thing to demand all the documentation from the owner, but another to put his hand in his own pocket (no reference to his broken fingers intended).

enricoh · 03-01-2014 12:18am

If I was garage owner I' d be demanding the tyre n tube get sent off and analysed.
Have him dipping into his pocket or else his no foal, no fee solicitor.
The solicitor mightnt want to shell out n tell him to drop it

timmy4u2 · 03-01-2014 12:45am

coylemj wrote: »

The garage owner is not obliged to provide the guy with anything so all that mullarkey about calibration certs is nonsense. Tell the garage owner to give the guy nothing and tell him that if he wants to go to law then he can deal with the garage owner through his solicitor.

It will be a condition of the garage owner's pubic liability insurance that he not enter into correspondence with anyone where there is a potential claim so it's very much in his interest not to give the guy anything as it might undermine his position if a claim does materialise.

If I was the garage owner I'd be asking your brother-in-law for the make and model of the go-kart tyre, I suspect it wasn't able to handle the pressure and as you say the guy wasn't watching the pressure gauge so it just exploded.

Perhaps he intends processing the claim as a lay litigent.
I am afraid that once a statement of claim etc is forwarded either voluntary discovery or discovery granted by the courts will come into force and information will then have to be exchanged.
In any event claims will have to be presented to the injuries board for assessment and a solicitor is not required initially, at least.
Have a look at the injuries board site here
http://www.injuriesboard.ie/eng/?gclid=CKCfs7_T4LsCFWF42wodXz0AoQ

rock22 · 03-01-2014 10:57am

Not relevant to the legal aspect but :-
Was it a tubed or tubeless tyre? It could be the latter on a go-cart.
Was he assembling the tyre onto the wheel? Was he competent to do that?

The difficulty with such small tubes, assuming it is a tubed tyre, is that they take very little air to inflate. i.e. 2 seconds with a compressor might bring it to a dangerous pressure. A competent person would know this. The pressure would rise very rapidly in the tube and it would be almost impossible to read. The 20lb reading your brother read might be the pressure in the flexible pipe between the hand unit and tyre/tube valve.

Even if the gauge was not working correctly his fingers would not be damaged because he would be keeping his hands away from the tyre while inflating, wouldn't he?

kennM · 03-01-2014 11:02am

timmy4u2 wrote: »

Perhaps he intends processing the claim as a lay litigent.
I am afraid that once a statement of claim etc is forwarded either voluntary discovery or discovery granted by the courts will come into force and information will then have to be exchanged.
In any event claims will have to be presented to the injuries board for assessment and a solicitor is not required initially, at least.
Have a look at the injuries board site here
http://www.injuriesboard.ie/eng/?gclid=CKCfs7_T4LsCFWF42wodXz0AoQ

Hey Timmy, you are indeed right... all personal injury claims (accept a small few like medical negligence) need to go through the injuries board however it only progresses through injuries board if liability is not under dispute.

From my lay viewpoint of this there are 3 possible factors here (a) pressure gauge is defective - considering a number of other people used it on the same day, its probably safe enough to say it wasn't dangerously defective (if defective) (b) tyre is defective - in which case liability would sit with cart provider (retailer), who in turn can pass on costs up the supply chain to original source (c) your brother in law wasn't paying attention and over inflated the tyre, he has absolutely no proof that he didn't over inflate the tyre. A tyre of that size would increase in PSI very rapidly.

Hopefully it arrives at a just conclusion in the end... liability needs to be established here.

harr · 03-01-2014 5:52pm

Now the ****er is off to get his ears checked because of the loud bang on advice of his so called solicitors, I know the bang i will be giving him the next time I see him.
Another thing to point out is that on the day it happened he never reported to the owner even though he was working in his workshop.
He just drove to a&e so nobody including my self seen the the actual injury but he does have paper work from a&e.
could it be possible it happened else where
And blamed the gauge. He is on cctv put the owner cant make out him actually putting air in the tyre, all you can make out is him rummaging with something at the side of the car.

Farmer · 03-01-2014 7:44pm

Most gauges don't show the pressure when the trigger is held as the full potential of the air tank (maybe 100 p.s.i.) is available at that point. It's up to the user to check the pressure at intervals by releasing the trigger. This needs to be done quite frequently when pumping a small wheel. Chances are that the gauge wasn't even in the circuit when the blow-out happened

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