Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)

Shooting Forum - Firearms licencing information


Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all,
Vanilla are planning an update to the site on April 24th (next Wednesday). It is a major PHP8 update which is expected to boost performance across the site. The site will be down from 7pm and it is expected to take about an hour to complete. We appreciate your patience during the update.
Thanks all.

Gardai proposals to ban firearms

Options
1…8081838586…95

Comments

  • Options
    #2462
    clawback07
    Registered Users Posts: 97 ✭✭clawback07


    bravestar wrote: »
    I'm not trying to justify anything to anyone. My job doesn't define me any more than a person's skin colour does. I'm simply trying to help my fellow Shooters understand things a bit better, but if they can't see past the obvious then that is their problem and I wish them well.

    Were all on the same side here, people should remember that.

    And all I am simply saying is , (1) it takes a member of AGS to upload the details of a stolen gunsafe on to the pulse system and place it in the proper category and (2) a member of AGS to down load the information re stolen firearms and gun safes and check it thoroughly prior to presenting it to any committee! Or maybe I am missing something very obvious .


  • Options
    #2463
    bravestar
    Registered Users Posts: 1,082 ✭✭✭bravestar


    clawback07 wrote: »
    And all I am simply saying is , (1) it takes a member of AGS to upload the details of a stolen gunsafe on to the pulse system and place it in the proper category and (2) a member of AGS to down load the information re stolen firearms and gun safes and check it thoroughly prior to presenting it to any committee! Or maybe I am missing something very obvious .

    You are not missing anything and I agree with you. :)


  • Options
    #2464
    Deaf git
    Registered Users Posts: 228 ✭✭Deaf git


    So did someone pull data out of pulse to justify an overall lost/stolen figure they had previously pulled out their ass?


  • Options
    #2465
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,456 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    garrettod wrote: »
    Assuming the CAI's 10,000 are all licence holders, 10,000 as a percentage of over 200,000 (licences) is small.. so the Sports Coalition must be correct ;):)
    Eh, no.

    200,424 licenses. Spread over approx. 120,000 people (as there are people like myself with more than one firearm.

    The NARGC claim to represent 28,000 members. So that leaves 92,000. If you allow for the few thousand of the NASRPC, the fishermen, the few RFD that have formed this new dealers association, the few that have formed this new range operators association, the "others" then you are talking about approx 8,000 or so.

    That leaves 84,000. 84,000 represented by the IFA, CAI, NRAI, NTSA, Pony Club, the rest of the RFDs, the rest of the range operators, and all the other organisations.

    In fact the "Coalition" only represent two of the 5 (or is it 6) main NGBs, and approx 32% of the total amount of firearm owners.

    Exact numbers are impossible to get as there will be cross over between people being members of numerous groups, and the fact that the members of some groups may not all be firearm owners.
    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

    Moderators - Cass otmmyboy2 , CatMod - Shamboc , Admins - Beasty , mickeroo



  • Options
    #2466
    Fallow01
    Registered Users Posts: 138 ✭✭Fallow01


    NARGC, CAI and others have lost a lot of members in recent years due to emigration etc, the NARGC number is old and likely to be a lot less from what I hear, they also lost a lot of gun clubs to CAI, IFA...

    The membership numbers quoted by those who are insurance/compensation providers, are these members or policyholders/affiliate members only for the purpose of gaining insurance?

    WDAI recently circulated information on their membership and supporters, over 80% of their new members are coming from gun clubs, why would these people join another hunting organisation such as WDAI, in apparently large numbers? They also claim their membership and support base averages 120,000 people in any given month, does this make them the largest supported organisation?

    Either way a lot of hunters and shooters will not be represented


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #2467
    yubabill1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭yubabill1


    Well, lads and ladies - where are we right now?

    way I see it, Minister for Justice meeting various shooting orgs soon, Justice cttee interim report in, Sports Coalition have laid their term of surrender on the table.

    Speaking of which, is it fair to say that Sports Coalition (or Collision as I have seen it called) have usurped the support of other shooting representatives and seek to speak for all shooters, especially if a permanent licensing review body is to be established?

    I distinctly smell a political fudge coming so quickly, we will all be like bishop Len Brennan when Father Ted kicked him up the arse.

    Anyone with S/A centrefires and pistols, in football terms, watch your house (it isn't as safe as you think, nor are S/A pump shotguns not to mention crime rate licence caps and firearm appearance bs). Shooting orgs have been hoodwinked by politicians in '06 and '09 at the behest of AGS......

    Just my 2c.


  • Options
    #2468
    clawback07
    Registered Users Posts: 97 ✭✭clawback07


    After reading Sparks excellent summation of the sport coalitions whitewash I have come to the conclusion that hoodwinking by politicians is not as big a threat as the threat from within . We appear to have a reasonable minister for justice and a reasonable commissioner ( these planets might never be in alignment again !! ) and a golden opportunity to resolve a lot of issues for everyone is slipping away.One of the basic rules of any engagement - what you have you hold - is being ignored in favour of so called temporary bans . To think I signed a petition for the sports coalition , I apologise now and hang my head in shame . I will write to the minister and the commissioner myself expressing my concerns for the future of My firearms and My sport .


  • Options
    #2469
    garrettod
    Registered Users Posts: 2,420 ✭✭✭garrettod


    Hi,

    While I suspect many people signed a petition which was coordinated by the Sports Coalition, there's no reason why those same people could not also sign other petitions arranged by other interested parties....

    Thanks,

    G.



  • Options
    #2470
    yubabill1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭yubabill1


    clawback07 wrote: »
    After reading Sparks excellent summation of the sport coalitions whitewash I have come to the conclusion that hoodwinking by politicians is not as big a threat as the threat from within . We appear to have a reasonable minister for justice and a reasonable commissioner ( these planets might never be in alignment again !! ) and a golden opportunity to resolve a lot of issues for everyone is slipping away.One of the basic rules of any engagement - what you have you hold - is being ignored in favour of so called temporary bans . To think I signed a petition for the sports coalition , I apologise now and hang my head in shame . I will write to the minister and the commissioner myself expressing my concerns for the future of My firearms and My sport .

    The swift and unannounced capitulation by the Sports Coalition smells distinctly like maybe someone had a bit of dirt on them.

    Or - the statement in their Feb 20 letter, to the effect that they did not want to be at odds with organs of the state is also strange.....was someone using a bit of leverage on them?

    I've been around long enough to call something that's not right.


  • Options
    #2471
    BoatMad
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    we dont deserve to have any licensed firearms in this country when we are " represented "by those bodies

    its a disgrace


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #2472
    Deaf git
    Registered Users Posts: 228 ✭✭Deaf git


    I see a notice on FB from NARGC advising of a meeting on 6th May in Lucan to brief members on a meeting held on 29th April between the Coalition, 'Other' shooting bodies, the Minister DOJ and Garda Commissioner.
    Anyone know what awaits us at this meeting of the 29th?


  • Options
    #2473
    knockon
    Registered Users Posts: 516 ✭✭✭knockon


    Deaf git wrote: »
    I see a notice on FB from NARGC advising of a meeting on 6th May in Lucan to brief members on a meeting held on 29th April between the Coalition, 'Other' shooting bodies, the Minister DOJ and Garda Commissioner.
    Anyone know what awaits us at this meeting of the 29th?

    I saw that and I am amazed how quiet it is considering what a massive deal it is to have these 2 Ladies in a forum on a Wed evening.


  • Options
    #2474
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,456 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    This thread has died off a little over the last few days to weeks. The reasons are simple:
    • There is no point in posting (regardless of content) to simply rehash the same old information.
    • People are truly sickened by how things are working out and are somewhat speechless
    • Others, myself included, are simply sick of the dealings going on behind closed doors. History repeating itself and those responsible simply carrying on with no regard to everyone else's concerns or even having the manners to address their previous actions

    With that said, and bearing in mind the previous crap that was done on "our behalf" i'm truly nervous about what is going to be said and done, again, on "our behalf" this time, as was point out above, directly to the two ladies you cannot afford to make a mistake in front of or to. The vagueness of the description of the other shooting bodies also concerns me. Is it all shooting bodies, or just the makey-uppy ones that were formed to strengthen the appearance of the coalition?

    These meetings do not "just" happen. They are planned well in advance so they had time to notify people using either Facebook, or other forms of social media. A letter, e-mail or notification to people with a simple itinerary of what topics they intend to cover might calm those nerves. Also a promise that no more proposals will be issued without first consulting with those that it will effect.

    You know.............. everyone else.

    I hope, and i've fingers, toes and legs crossed, that it's a true representation of the shooting bodies. All of them. Not just the self appointed spokespersons for our sport. Again, all of them.
    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

    Moderators - Cass otmmyboy2 , CatMod - Shamboc , Admins - Beasty , mickeroo



  • Options
    #2475
    Sparks
    Registered Users Posts: 40,055 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    WDAI are going in; I think the NTSA have an invite but I'm not sure; I'd be surprised if the NRAI wasn't as well.
    But yeah, this has been in the works for a while now, the NARGC have known of their invite for at least two weeks. So dropping a hint like this the night before the meeting is just another "trust us, we're competent, you're not" mushroom jobs.

    The new job is eating all my time at the moment, but honestly, I keep looking at how this is going and thinking we've pretty much been done in by the Coalition at this point as a political move on their part to try to get them some sort of "in charge of Irish shooting" position. And if history repeats, as it always does, most people won't find out about the change for a year or two and half the people will believe whatever lie they're told at that point about how it's a great thing and they'll never find out how hard they've just been shafted. It's rather depressing really.


  • Options
    #2476
    yubabill1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭yubabill1


    Speaking as the poor cousin outside looking in, so to speak - does it strike anyone else as strange that the MoJ is meeting the stakeholders (?) BEFORE the justice Committee has even reported?

    Like has just been said - a fudge is coming and the majority will buy it, just like they bought getting their licence from the post office in 2008/9 in return for a complete overhaul of the system ("just because it's restricted doesn't mean you can't license it" ..who said that again -us or them?).


  • Options
    #2477
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,456 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    yubabill1 wrote: »
    ........ does it strike anyone else as strange that the MoJ is meeting the stakeholders (?) BEFORE the justice Committee has even reported?............

    Not necessarily (in my opinion). I see nothing wrong with such meetings and the more the better regardless of the current situation of the committee's report. My thinking is that rather than no meetings and the Minister getting for the report then acting on it, this way we have the opportunity to talk, allay any doubts, clarify certain points, etc. Then when the report does come out she can take the content of the previous meetings and go through the report with these facts in mind.

    IOW, and to use a poor metaphor, it's like preventing a fire rather than trying to put one out.

    My concern is not the meetings, it's the representatives. I say this for all the reasons contained within this thread and especially since the letter of Feb. 20th that was published on April 4th. If this is their desired and planned route then it's completely against the majority wishes and contrary to what is best for the sport. If they are put in front of the Minister and continue on this path then she (the Minister) is getting these propsoals (the "Coalitions") with no filter. Not that there is a right way to push such proposals, but in face to face meetings you need to have and know what you want and want to say. Plus that is their ("coalition") thoughts and not that of the other shooting groups. Imagine them pushing their proposals and the other shooting groups saying HELL NO. Fighting in front of the Minister. :rolleyes:
    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

    Moderators - Cass otmmyboy2 , CatMod - Shamboc , Admins - Beasty , mickeroo



  • Options
    #2478
    Sparks
    Registered Users Posts: 40,055 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    Cass wrote: »
    Imagine them pushing their proposals and the other shooting groups saying HELL NO. Fighting in front of the Minister. :rolleyes:

    That we've gotten to where this is actually a necessary act speaks volumes...


  • Options
    #2479
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 14,950 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    So is anyone going to this meeting tonight in Lucan?? Be intresting to hear what is being said.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Options
    #2480
    Sparks
    Registered Users Posts: 40,055 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    So is anyone going to this meeting tonight in Lucan?? Be intresting to hear what is being said.

    Tonight?


  • Options
    #2481
    Kryten
    Registered Users Posts: 314 ✭✭Kryten


    Sparks wrote: »
    Tonight?

    No it's 6th May


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #2482
    Deaf git
    Registered Users Posts: 228 ✭✭Deaf git


    More importantly, the real meeting is happening today at some stage (I presume during business hours). I hope all the groups had the common sense to attend if invited.


  • Options
    #2483
    yubabill1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭yubabill1


    It's tonight 29/4, I believe.

    Reporting back to members 6 May.


  • Options
    #2484
    Scalachi
    Registered Users Posts: 268 ✭✭Scalachi


    The meeting with the Minister, The Garda Commissioner, Assistant Commissioners, DOJ, Gardaí etc happened today and I think all relevant shooting groups, NARGC/NRAI/NTSA/NASRPC/CAI/IFA were represented.

    I am sure all your relevant groups or NGB's will be providing you with information as the sports coalition is doing.


  • Options
    #2485
    no12
    Registered Users Posts: 196 ✭✭no12


    Meeting was held today with various stakeholders MOJ and AGS Commissioner. The meeting on May 6th by the Sports Coalition is to inform people of what was discussed in todays meeting.


  • Options
    #2486
    Sparks
    Registered Users Posts: 40,055 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    Scalachi wrote: »
    as the sports coalition is doing.
    Can you pull the other one? It's got bells on.


  • Options
    #2487
    garrettod
    Registered Users Posts: 2,420 ✭✭✭garrettod


    Hi,

    Given the clear concerns being expressed here (amongst other places, no doubt) regarding some of whats suspected of having been going on behind closed doors, is there anyone here interested in presenting some of the points of concern, during the open meeting on 6th May & calling for direct responses to same ?

    Personally, I'm not the man for the job, but it strikes me that if someone capable were to stand up and say they represent in excess of X licence holders, who have significant concerns about the following issues (TBC) & feel their interests are not being represented by the Sports Coalition, they might (a) get a hearing and (b) get some much needed attention or possibly even press coverage, which might in turn draw more support thereafter.

    Ultimately, it's the same old story when it comes to just about anything in Ireland, we don't complain enough or stand up for ourselves when we should. Obviously, there's a right and a wrong way to stand up for yourself, but surely the more vocal at present the better ?

    Thanks,

    G.



  • Options
    #2488
    Sparks
    Registered Users Posts: 40,055 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    Why would you ask for a hearing from the cause of the problem?


  • Options
    #2489
    Deaf git
    Registered Users Posts: 228 ✭✭Deaf git


    Perhaps some of the groups that attended might do the logical thing and stick up a summary on their websites tonight.


  • Options
    #2490
    OzCam
    Registered Users Posts: 2,045 ✭✭✭OzCam


    Sparks wrote: »
    "trust us, we're competent, you're not"

    I've heard that before. It usually doesn't end well.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #2491
    turismo2142
    Registered Users Posts: 149 ✭✭turismo2142


    Care to comment on the oireachtais committee's interim recommendation scalachi and how the coalition updated everyone prior to that?


Advertisement