Gay Marriage/Marriage Equality/End of World?

aloyisious · 29-08-2014 10:56am

Going Strong wrote: »

I wonder if said columnist was of the "I'm unfortunately gay but have never acted upon such impure desires and neither should the rest of you" persuasion at all?

I was wondering if the "openly same-sex attracted columnist" was of the opposite gender to him and he might have been attracted to her and whether the columnist was still with the "official" catholic newspaper, whatever that actually means. I would have thought employing an "openly same-sex attracted" columnist might have been against the ethos of an official catholic newspaper.

Peregrinus · 29-08-2014 11:00am

Going Strong wrote: »

I wonder if said columnist was of the "I'm unfortunately gay but have never acted upon such impure desires and neither should the rest of you" persuasion at all?

If he's the columnist I think he is, no, he wasn't quite of that persuasion.

A bloke called John Heard. He used to write a blog under the name "Dreadnought" in which he wrote about being a gay Catholic. He leveraged that into journalism, and a column in the Catholic Weekly.

Long story short, he did not regard being gay as "unfortunate", and his blog celebrated eroticism and was larded with photographs of shirtless men ("dreadhotties"). And when he first identified as gay - this would be about the age of 17 or 18 - he was sexually active with both men and women, and hoped that Catholic thinking on this issue would develop.

Then he went off to college to do a philosophy degree. He looked into Catholic thinking on sex and sexuality with a view to critiquing it, but found he couldn't mount a destructive critique of it which would satisfy him. And when he was writing the "Dreadnought" blog that's more or less where he was - gay, glad to be gay, open about being gay, but intellectually convinced there was something lacking in gay sexual expression. He had, and wrote about having, a boyfriend. I don't know how the boyfriend (who wasn't a Catholic) felt about either having a no-sex relationship, or about having sex accompanied by what must have been lashings of agonising and guilt. I don't know how that particular relationship ended (or indeed if it ended).

Confused? Incoherent? You may think so. I certainly thought so at the time. But it was at least honest. And we must cut him some slack; he was young and foolish at the time, and still working things out.

He kept all this up while doing a postgraduate degree in philosophy. It was around this time that he was writing the Catholic Weekly column. Then he moved into more mainstream journalism, writing from a conservative viewpoint for mainstream publications, not particularly on matters of sexuality. Then he gave up the unequal struggle of trying to earn a living as a philosopher and went off to study law. He's currently practising law. He still does occasional bits of journalism. Last significant writing on matters of sex or sexuality that I noticed was a piece in the Australian Spectator about 18 months ago in support of same-sex marriage. (Which we still don't have in Australia.) It's reasonable to think that his thinking about his own sexuality may have moved on somewhat from when he was writing for the Catholic Weekly, if only because (a) he's a bit older now, and (b) although he still maintains a website, nothing of the blog he once wrote or the articles in the Catholic Weekly appears on it. Presumably they don't reflect what he currently thinks.

Cabaal · 29-08-2014 11:29am

and so it begins,

On the back of the Gardai flying the pride flag in Limerick

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2014/08/29/a-nightmare-precedent/

yes, thats it, This fool compared a persons sexuality to a cult
:rolleyes:

Its funny, the letter talks about giving special treatment to a specific group based on their sexuality. But isn't that exactly what numerous government organizations and employee's did or still do?

Special treatment for non gay people, bad treatment for gay people. Teachers and nurses are a good example of this. Government employee's but they don't even have job security based on their sexuality.

SebBerkovich · 29-08-2014 11:48am

Cabaal wrote: »

and so it begins,

On the back of the Gardai flying the pride flag in Limerick

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2014/08/29/a-nightmare-precedent/

yes, thats it, This fool compared a persons sexuality to a cult
:rolleyes:

Its funny, the letter talks about giving special treatment to a specific group based on their sexuality. But isn't that exactly what numerous government organizations and employee's did or still do?

Special treatment for non gay people, bad treatment for gay people. Teachers and nurses are a good example of this. Government employee's but they don't even have job security based on their sexuality.

It's an interesting argument made very, very badly. Should a government run body be expressing a political or social stance? -
I don't know...
but the Gardai should be focused on equality more than most institutions, so i feel that the symbol is a showing of the Gardai's intention to be an institution which acts for all people in the Republic. Rather than on taking a particular position.

Personally i feel that the rainbow flag is far more inclusive than that Tri-Colour anyway.

Delirium · 29-08-2014 11:53am

“It is our intention by doing so that we send a clear message of support to all LGBT people and in particular a message to report any homophobic, violent, threatening and/or abusive behaviour towards them,” he explained.

Chief Supt Sheahan added that he is keenly aware that homophobic acts cannot be addressed if the gardai are not made aware of them and in flying the rainbow flag as part of the Pride Parade 2014 he hopes to encourage any person to report an incident at either their nearest garda station, to their local LGBT liaison officer or to contact the National LGBT liaison officer in Garda Racial Intercultural Diversity Office, Harcourt Square, Dublin.

Source

Flying the flag so as to let LGBT people know that the police are there to take any problems encountered seriously is giving them special treatment? :rolleyes:

If the country treated LGBT folk the same as the rest of society then there would be no need for the Gardai to fly the flag. But because the law has failed LGBT folk in the past, the Gardai are making sure to get the message out that they aim to do better.

oscarBravo · 29-08-2014 12:01pm

SebBerkovich wrote: »

Should a government run body be expressing a political or social stance?

If that political or social stance is "LGBT people are humans beings with rights", then my answer is "hell, yes".

SebBerkovich · 29-08-2014 12:09pm

oscarBravo wrote: »

If that political or social stance is "LGBT people are humans beings with rights", then my answer is "hell, yes".

Agreed - I was just trying to point out that perhaps if it was the Vatican's flag, we might be feeling different about what freedom the institution should have with regards to expressing their support.

oscarBravo · 29-08-2014 12:39pm

SebBerkovich wrote: »

Agreed - I was just trying to point out that perhaps if it was the Vatican's flag, we might be feeling different about what freedom the institution should have with regards to expressing their support.

Absolutely, and I think that difference is completely justifiable.

NuMarvel · 29-08-2014 1:17pm

Dublin City Council has flown the Pride flag on flag poles along the quays for years. Cork City Council flew the Pride flag over City Hall earlier this year.

What's with the sudden "concern" about public bodies in Limerick flying it?

Cabaal · 29-08-2014 1:32pm

NuMarvel wrote: »

What's with the sudden "concern" about public bodies in Limerick flying it?

Cause they only noticed now

aloyisious · 29-08-2014 2:13pm

NuMarvel wrote: »

Dublin City Council has flown the Pride flag on flag poles along the quays for years. Cork City Council flew the Pride flag over City Hall earlier this year.

What's with the sudden "concern" about public bodies in Limerick flying it?

The possible bias by the state and it's law enforcers to pinkies, next thing is they'll be sitting in Leinster House guiding how laws are....... oh, :eek:

I was being very much tongue-in-cheek above :-)

Cabaal · 29-08-2014 2:53pm

aloyisious wrote: »

The possible bias by the state and it's law enforcers to pinkies, next thing is they'll be sitting in Leinster House guiding how laws are....... oh :eek:

Brian Shanahan · 29-08-2014 2:55pm

aloyisious wrote: »

Mr Rosengren also made some quotes about gender and homosexuality etc. He said that neither he nor the Church “see homosexuality as a sin”. “The problem is that the Church believes God made man and woman equally in the image and likeness of God’s very self - therefore gender actually has meaning. “Homosexuality and other identifications that people may use to describe themselves such as bisexual, transgendered and so on … may obscure for people the meaning of their lives, but the dividing line for the Church is that homosexual acts definitely do,” said Mr Rosengren. “Having previously employed an openly same-sex attracted columnist on an official Catholic newspaper I feel quite entitled to make these observations,” he added.

So he's following up "homosexuality isn't a sin" with saying that because people are gay they are engaging in sinful acts. And because he once met a gay person he's suddenly an expert.

There is only one suitable response:

robindch · 04-09-2014 10:26am

Dublin's Socrates Cafe will be discussing marriage equality next Tuesday, 9th September in the Long Stone pub:

http://www.meetup.com/socratescafedublin/events/203093922/?a=me1_grp&rv=me1&_af_eid=203093922&_af=event

Nodin · 05-09-2014 6:23am

The Society of St Vincent de Paul has strongly defended its decision to donate €45,000 to a Galway LGBT group which is trying to establish a resource centre in the city.

On Tuesday, the SVP received a letter from the Catholic bishop of Galway, Dr Martin Drennan, demanding clarification as to the grounds for the donation.

The SVP's response is due to land on the bishop's desk today, stating that the SVP National Management Council support is based on a key element of the SVP Christian ethos, which is "to be non-judgmental when its assistance is sought". -
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/bishop-queries-svps-45000-gift-to-gay-group-30563717.html

"non judgemental"......what kind of hippy shite is that? I blame Vatican II. They were all smokin the pot, I heard.....

Links234 · 05-09-2014 8:17am

They should've kicked bishop drennan up the arse

Peregrinus · 05-09-2014 8:25am

Links234 wrote: »

They should've kicked bishop drennan up the arse

(I bet he hears that joke a lot.)

rainbow kirby · 05-09-2014 9:28am

Well done, UK.

B0jangles · 05-09-2014 3:00pm

And here's another cheering story to kick off the weekend

Indo wrote:

Gaelic football pundit defends decision to bring Catholic school students to gay pride parade

A well-known Gaelic football pundit and former inter-county player has spoken of his decision to bring students to a gay pride parade in Co. Down.

Jarlath Burns, principal of St. Paul's High School in Co. Armagh and BBC pundit, marched with a group of senior pupils at a gay pride parade in Newry last weekend.

It is understood the group from St. Paul's were the first Irish students to take part in a pride parade.

“At St Paul’s, we celebrate diversity. It is a welcoming place where all students can feel comfortable.

"We just wanted to walk to show solidarity with what is a marginalised group in our society, to show them compassion, dignity and respect,” said Burns, to the Irish Catholic.

Burns said his decision to march with his students was not at odds with his school's Catholic ethos:

“Schools should not be places where students are ridiculed or made feel isolated.

"We are proud to be a Catholic school and it because of that we decided to walk as a group and give Christian witness," he said.

The former Armagh midfielder said societal norms should be challenged, and is proud of his school's act of solidarity:

"It may have been controversial but we have to challenge ourselves and the status quo.

"We can’t be bound by tradition. It’s in that context that we decided to march and I’m very proud of what we did,” he said.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/gaelic-football-pundit-defends-decision-to-bring-catholic-school-students-to-gay-pride-parade-30564960.html

Nodin · 05-09-2014 6:20pm

Hotblack desatio posted a more detailed article from the Times in "Hazards of Belief"

"He also confirmed that the SVP had no formal association with the Catholic Church or its bishops but that “relationships at a local level were very strong with local clergy very much involved.” This was also the case in Galway, he said."
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/bishop-objects-to-lgbt-centre-grant-on-moral-grounds-1.1918168

Bishop Drennan needs to be told where to go.

aloyisious · 05-09-2014 6:24pm

Nodin wrote: »

The Society of St Vincent de Paul has strongly defended its decision to donate €45,000 to a Galway LGBT group which is trying to establish a resource centre in the city.

On Tuesday, the SVP received a letter from the Catholic bishop of Galway, Dr Martin Drennan, demanding clarification as to the grounds for the donation.

The SVP's response is due to land on the bishop's desk today, stating that the SVP National Management Council support is based on a key element of the SVP Christian ethos, which is "to be non-judgmental when its assistance is sought". -
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/bishop-queries-svps-45000-gift-to-gay-group-30563717.html

"non judgemental"......what kind of hippy shite is that? I blame Vatican II. They were all smokin the pot, I heard.....

RTE 1 Radio Drive-time are covering this now with an interview of Nuala Ward of Amach and Petra Conway from Catholic Comment. Seem's there was an interview on Galway FM, earlier, possibly with the bishop. Petra wasn't pulling any punches about the donation and that Amach would use it on it's promoting of marriage equality. Men, women, children and catholiscism is what marriage is all about and now't else. The Amach rep explained fully where the money would be spent, and how it would be accounting to the fund disperser each year over the three years of the dispersal (at 15,000 € a year) how the money was to be spent.

Benny_Cake · 05-09-2014 6:56pm

aloyisious wrote: »

RTE 1 Radio news are covering this now with an interview of an Amach Rep and a rep from Catholic Comment. Seem's there was an interview on Galway FM, earlier, possibly with the bishop. Petra from Catholic Comment wasn't pulling any punches about the donation and that Amach would use it on it's promoting of marriage equality. Men, women, children and catholiscism is what marriage is all about and now't else. The Amach rep explained fully where the money would be spent, and how it would be accounting to the fund disperser each year over the three years of the dispersal (at 15,000 € a year) how the money was to be spent.

Ludicrous. They shouldn't have to explain how it will be spent, that's between themselves and the SVP. Nothing to do with Bishop Drennan or Catholic Comment (whoever they are).

krudler · 06-09-2014 4:06am

Bishop Drennan, is he from Rugged Island?

aloyisious · 06-09-2014 3:46pm

Drive-time link for the interview: https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCMQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rte.ie%2Fradio1%2Fdrivetime%2Fprogrammes%2F2014%2F0905%2F641799-drivetime-friday-5-september-2014%2F&ei=_RwLVPDqF6LA7AatloCYCg&usg=AFQjCNEPv8tGuh9raJEmvGbXBEqfA8xbUg&bvm=bv.74649129,d.ZGU

Click on the PLAY arrow, blank-space below Friday 5th Sept on the right, and scroll forward to 1.51 on the video time-play meter.

Seem's that Cath-comment was set up in 2012 and may be linked to... https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CB8QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.faithinthemedia.net%2F&ei=LhsLVMDcGem47AavyoCIAw&usg=AFQjCNFuqwbN488Ym52O2m0dsOBtEW_yDg

Petra think's SVD have gone beyond it's (Christian) core-ethos in giving money to fund a campaigning group (Amach) in favour of gay marriage and she repeat's that point several times.

shruikan2553 · 06-09-2014 4:24pm

Nodin wrote: »

The Society of St Vincent de Paul has strongly defended its decision to donate €45,000 to a Galway LGBT group which is trying to establish a resource centre in the city.

On Tuesday, the SVP received a letter from the Catholic bishop of Galway, Dr Martin Drennan, demanding clarification as to the grounds for the donation.

The SVP's response is due to land on the bishop's desk today, stating that the SVP National Management Council support is based on a key element of the SVP Christian ethos, which is "to be non-judgmental when its assistance is sought". -
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/bishop-queries-svps-45000-gift-to-gay-group-30563717.html

"non judgemental"......what kind of hippy shite is that? I blame Vatican II. They were all smokin the pot, I heard.....

Should have replied with "sorry, we have no records of that, they were lost in a fire"

Benny_Cake · 06-09-2014 4:47pm

Statement from the SVP here: http://www.svp.ie/News/Latest-News/SVP-position-on-grant-to-AMACH!-LGBT-Ltd,-Galway.aspx

The Bishop could have avoided making himself look foolish if he'd done a little bit of investigation as to why the grant was made, who Amach are, and so on. I see that AMACH! have extended an invitation to Bishop Drennan to meet with them and see what they are about, which is a classy response. Hopefully he'll take them up on it.

At the very least, Galway SVP and AMACH! have gained a good deal of publicity from this. So it's not all bad.

Cabaal · 06-09-2014 8:25pm

Catholic comment are actually pretty active on the likes of thejournal.ie, one "shill" who is very active in abortion, marriage equality and education stories is Paddy Scully (http://catholiccomment.ie/speakers/paddy-scully.html & http://www.catholiccomment.ie/speakers/).

He's regularly called out on the fact he represents Catholic comment.

Strangely enough he remains awful silent on stories to do with child sex abuse linked to the Catholic Church.

Not sure if Catholic Comment monitor their speakers but they right should if they don't, Paddy has come out with aload of stuff that could be perceived as very hateful and he does nothing good for the image of the catholic church in this country.

Corkfeen · 06-09-2014 9:20pm

Cabaal wrote: »

Catholic comment are actually pretty active on the likes of thejournal.ie, one "shill" who is very active in abortion, marriage equality and education stories is Paddy Scully (Google him and he's a "volunteer" for them.

He's regularly called out on the fact he represents Catholic comment.

Strangely enough he remains awful silent on stories to do with child sex abuse linked to the Catholic Church.

He had a rant about Philomena Lee in an article about her on the journal the other day. Particularly nasty behaviour tbh.

PopePalpatine · 07-09-2014 9:20am

Cabaal wrote: »

Catholic comment are actually pretty active on the likes of thejournal.ie, one "shill" who is very active in abortion, marriage equality and education stories is Paddy Scully (Google him and he's a "volunteer" for them.

He's regularly called out on the fact he represents Catholic comment.

Strangely enough he remains awful silent on stories to do with child sex abuse linked to the Catholic Church.

I wonder if he's also in T'Udder Forum.

Cabaal · 07-09-2014 9:38am

Corkfeen wrote: »

He had a rant about Philomena Lee in an article about her on the journal the other day. Particularly nasty behaviour tbh.

You ain't kidding, for those that can't find it......

I hope someone will ask Philomena if she believes her child would have been better served by abortion. That is after all what she is saying by being a keynote speaker at a pro abortion conference.
Its sad to see my old alma mater law faculty has been taken over by the radicals. But communism, and extreme feminism, were always popular in universities. But it should bring our the students union!

This conference is trying to push forward the new legislation, designed by Alan Shatter, at the bequest of the LGBT redefinition of marriage groups. Included in its cocktail is the legislation which will facilitate surrogacy for gay couples. This legislation will, by definition, create a whole new generation of children, separated from their blood relations.
So we have Philomena, who was separated from her child, supporting legislation which will create a new cycle of state supported children to be deliberately separated from at least one parent.
Is there not something rotten in the state of Ireland?

Oh nooo's, he's discovered the Gay Agenda
:rolleyes:

http://www.thejournal.ie/philomena-lee-force-adoption-cork-1653457-Sep2014/

Gay Marriage/Marriage Equality/End of World?

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