Is this the head gasket?

congo_90 · 11-01-2009 3:21am #1

Seem to have the oil light come on recently a good bit so popped the bonnet to discover a leak somewhere along the head and block (where they join) Is this a blown head gasket? I checked oil levels to find her nearly empty and some sort of gunk on the dip stick. Anyways I'm just wondering before I go to a mechanic
See pics below. The damage seems worse on the right of the pic but goes most of the way across.

Any ideas/suggestions? (leave all crappy hyundai jokes at the door.)
Thanks

seanybiker · 11-01-2009 3:26am

Looks like a gasket gone to me. Replace gasket and top her up.

congo_90 · 11-01-2009 3:31am

I've a limited but expanding knowledge of mechanical parts etc on the car.. What sort of experience is required? basically Can much go wrong when replacing a head gasket? Any idea as to why its gone too? I dont drive the car too hard but I do have cold start journeys where the engine may only be warming up as I arrive..

seanybiker · 11-01-2009 3:35am

Im not a mechanic at all bud. Maybe ya put to much oil in the last time ya done it. Could be from dirving hard, but ya said ya dont drive her hard, cold driving wouldnt be the best for her. It's simple to change a gasket.
Your better off waiting for a person who knows for definate what their on about though. I dont wanna be saying anything and ending up completely wrong.

congo_90 · 11-01-2009 3:39am

ah rite no probs.. i've roughly an idea and a mechanical savvy neighbour. Maybe he can help me. It seems simple enoungh. I just hope the head itself isn't warped. cheers for the advice!

HungryJoey · 11-01-2009 3:43am

That looks like the rocker cover gasket to me, common in alot of engines to leak oil from there as the gaskets crack/perish. Its usually just a case of buying a new rocker cover gasket (Only a couple of euro) and unscrewing the cover and lifting it off and there will be the gasket. Clean up the area and surface and replace with new gasket. Pop down the cover and screw it back onto the head.

It would be very unlikely though, for this to cause "gunk" or "mayonaise" on the filler cap or the end of the stick. If you have these symptoms you probably guessed right and it is your head gasket and it is leaking oil/coolant causing the gunk build-up and loss of fluids. This is a much bigger job and should be checked out by a mechanic. He can do a compression test on the engine and tell if there is loss of compression in a cylinder, this would indicate head-gasket failure which is not where the oil is in the pictures, its further down the block and not as easy as screwing off the crank case and replacing its gasket.

To sum it up, yes that is an oil leak in the picture, that is not the head gasket in the picture. It would appear you have possibly 2 problems leading to oil loss, head gasket failure & rocker cover leaking oil. Get it to a mechanic to check out why you are loosing oil.

congo_90 · 11-01-2009 3:46am

HungryJoey wrote: »

That looks like the crank case gasket to me, common in alot of engines to leak oil from there as the gaskets crack/perish.

Is that not below the pistons? in between the sump and block?

HungryJoey · 11-01-2009 3:57am

congo_90 wrote: »

Is that not below the pistons? in between the sump and block?

** my bad, I meant to say rocker cover

No the rocker cover (The black cover with 12V SOHC written on yours), covers the cams at the top of the engine, the valves and keeps the oil from spraying out of the engine/prevents oil from being contaminated.. Because there would be a large volume of oil flow under the rocker cover, if the gasket is perished it will leak oil, just like in the picture.

congo_90 · 11-01-2009 4:03am

ah so now its more interesting lol looks like a mechanic job then. Unless there is some way to distinguish? Perhaps if I took a better pic? I know that coolant has mixed because the oil scum on the dip stick (tad worried may have an oil change now too)

HungryJoey · 11-01-2009 4:06am

congo_90 wrote: »

ah so now its more interesting lol looks like a mechanic job then. Unless there is some way to distinguish? Perhaps if I took a better pic? I know that coolant has mixed because the oil scum on the dip stick (tad worried may have an oil change now too)

Well if coolant has mixed, there is only 1 reason it would be there and that is if the head gasket has blown. There's no way of telling from pictures. You'd need to get it down to a mechanic and do a compression test on the engine.

The oil highlighted in the pictures you put up are a seperate issue altogether but I wouldnt get too worried about that yet.

Darragh29 · 11-01-2009 4:09am

Op this isn't the head gasket. What is wrong there is that your rocker cover gasket needs to be replaced. Replacing this is extremely easy. Go to a Hyundai main dealer and get a new rocker cover gasket, I think they are around 20-30 Euro at the most.

You have to take off the rocker cover, which is the cover with 12V SOHC stamped into it. I think you'll need a 10MM spanner or socket to take this cover off, you can see the small 10MM bolts in your pic.

Most important here is total removal of the old gasket and preparation of the surface where the new gasket will be sitting. You might also need a good gasket sealing compound to do the job.

You'll also need some fine sandpaper for metal and a sharp razor blade to clean the old gasket off the rocker cover and cylinder head surfaces...

congo_90 · 11-01-2009 4:09am

soo.. Provided the head isn't warped.. How much we looking at roughly for a mechanic to do this? a tad sh1tty cos i'll need the car all week

@hungryjoey, Thanks for all the advice guys.. so now its not just a head but probably something else?

congo_90 · 11-01-2009 4:13am

Darragh29 wrote: »

Op this isn't the head gasket. What is wrong there is that your rocker cover gasket needs to be replaced. Replacing this is extremely easy. Go to a Hyundai main dealer and get a new rocker cover gasket, I think they are around 20-30 Euro at the most.

You have to take off the rocker cover, which is the cover with 12V SOHC stamped into it. I think you'll need a 10MM spanner or socket to take this cover off, you can see the small 10MM bolts in your pic.

Most important here is total removal of the old gasket and preparation of the surface where the new gasket will be sitting. You might also need a good gasket sealing compound to do the job.

You'll also need some fine sandpaper for metal and a sharp razor blade to clean the old gasket off the rocker cover and cylinder head surfaces...

So I need a rocker cover gasket? Can I buy this in a motor factors? If all I have to remove is those will I need a torque wrench?
I thought the bottom right was the head gasket..

Darragh29 · 11-01-2009 4:14am

congo_90 wrote: »

soo.. Provided the head isn't warped.. How much we looking at roughly for a mechanic to do this? a tad sh1tty cos i'll need the car all week

@hungryjoey, Thanks for all the advice guys.. so now its not just a head but probably something else?

OP, tomorrow when you have daylight, run the engine for a minute and then turn it off. When you have done this, take off the oil filler cap at the top of the engine and take a picture of the back of that cap, which should have engine oil on it. Take the dipstick out of the engine and take a picture of this also before cleaning any oil off and post both up here.

DON'T FORGET TO PUT THE OIL FILLER CAP AND DIPSTICK BACK IN ON THE ENGINE!

congo_90 · 11-01-2009 4:15am

Will do. I'll post first thing.. What will this indicate to you?

Darragh29 · 11-01-2009 4:17am

congo_90 wrote: »

So I need a rocker cover gasket? Can I buy this in a motor factors? If all I have to remove is those will I need a torque wrench?
I thought the bottom right was the head gasket..

No, head gasket is a different thing thing entirely. It is about 4 inches below the black rubber gasket. The metal cylinder block that is directly underneath the rubber gasket I've pointed out, the head gasket is sandwiched between the bottom of that cylinder head block and the engine block.

seanybiker · 11-01-2009 4:19am

congo_90 wrote: »

What will this indicate to you?

That ya listened to him lol.

Darragh29 · 11-01-2009 4:20am

congo_90 wrote: »

Will do. I'll post first thing.. What will this indicate to you?

I want to see if there is any evidence of water-oil cross contamination. I think you said earlier that you had scum on your dip stick? This would indicate a possible, separate head gasket problem but not necessarily so, I just want to see if there is any evidence of this...

congo_90 · 11-01-2009 4:22am

seanybiker wrote: »

That ya listened to him lol.

Lol good enough i spose..

Darragh29 wrote: »

I want to see if there is any evidence of water-oil cross contamination. I think you said earlier that you had scum on your dip stick? This would indicate a possible, separate head gasket problem but not necessarily so, I just want to see if there is any evidence of this...

Ok cheers Darragh. Outta curiosity If that is the case is it costly or similar procedure of repair? The car is crappy and old.
I'll have those pics up come morning. cheers again

Darragh29 · 11-01-2009 4:26am

congo_90 wrote: »

Lol good enough i spose..

Ok cheers Darragh. Outta curiosity If that is the case is it costly or similar procedure of repair? The car is crappy and old.
I'll have those pics up come morning. cheers again

No a head gasket is a different thing entirely, it's different job which is hundreds to sort out. If this is your only problem (rocker cover gasket), it is easy to sort out...

Is the car driving OK, any sign of loss of power or excess exhaust smoke or anything like that???

congo_90 · 11-01-2009 4:28am

Since the problem initially began there has been a loss of power which again points to HG imo. Its stablised now a bit. Also the engine idles but kinda pfft pfft noise when idling? dunno if thats any use perhaps a recording could help?

Darragh29 · 11-01-2009 4:36am

congo_90 wrote: »

Since the problem initially began there has been a loss of power which again points to HG imo. Its stablised now a bit. Also the engine idles but kinda pfft pfft noise when idling? dunno if thats any use perhaps a recording could help?

Well post up the pics tomorrow and see how we get on. Also, dip the car for oil and check if the level is too low, too high or just right.

congo_90 · 11-01-2009 4:40am

When I topped up it was just right so it'll be interesting to see if the level has moved much in the last few days.

tu2j2 · 11-01-2009 6:27am

When did you last check the oil before the warning light came on?

To me it doesn't look like the rocker cover is leaking massive amounts of oil although if you haven't checked it in ages it could have lost a lot through it.

Has the coolant level dropped too?
Basically the basic signs of head gasket failure are losing oil and coolant, and a manky looking yellowey white crap on the oil cap and dipstick. If you have those your best bet is bring it to a mechanic for a compression test, you'll know then for sure.

modm3 · 11-01-2009 8:06am

OP wasn't clear on what colour the "gunk" was on the end of the dipstick. I guessing it was dark oily jelly'ish gunk. Would tie in with very low engine oil level, tends to solidify if worked really hard - ie not enough oil to do the lubrication job. You've been lucky if that's the case and no further damage has been done. It just looks as if the rocker gasket needs changing. But if the "gunk" is as mentioned mayonais like, then the head gasket is gone.

the merchant · 11-01-2009 11:20am

If the HG is blown, the increase in crankcase pressure could potentially blow the rocker gasket.

Therefore the rocker gasket could be a symptom of the head gasket.

congo_90 · 11-01-2009 8:56pm

tu2j2 wrote: »

When did you last check the oil before the warning light came on?

To me it doesn't look like the rocker cover is leaking massive amounts of oil although if you haven't checked it in ages it could have lost a lot through it.

Has the coolant level dropped too?
Basically the basic signs of head gasket failure are losing oil and coolant, and a manky looking yellowey white crap on the oil cap and dipstick. If you have those your best bet is bring it to a mechanic for a compression test, you'll know then for sure.

Coolant level seems ok. Last check was probably ~3months ago. The gunk was a yellowish thick like jelly

the merchant wrote: »

If the HG is blown, the increase in crankcase pressure could potentially blow the rocker gasket.

Therefore the rocker gasket could be a symptom of the head gasket.

Jesus I knew it was bad but before i posted here I had completed a non stop 120mile journey!!

Oil level has dropped a tiny bit since I last checked there last week when diagnosing the problem myself.

For darragh29 i've posted up more pics.

Darragh29 · 11-01-2009 9:58pm

the merchant wrote: »

If the HG is blown, the increase in crankcase pressure could potentially blow the rocker gasket.

Therefore the rocker gasket could be a symptom of the head gasket.

This is most likely what has happened here...

It seems you have a head gasket problem there all right or at least you have what you might call preliminary evidence of a head gasket problem. That pepper sauce like substance on the back of the oil filler cap does seem to be oil contaminated with coolant.

congo_90 · 12-01-2009 4:26pm

Strangly my coolant levels are above full in the tank. Oil still at same level?

Darragh29 · 12-01-2009 8:56pm

congo_90 wrote: »

Strangly my coolant levels are above full in the tank. Oil still at same level?

Look into the coolant expansion bottle (plastic bottle with coolant in it), when the engine is cold and see if there is the same pepper like scum in there, floating on top of the coolant.

congo_90 · 13-01-2009 2:04am

If there is how bad is it then? Flush all lines out, radiator i'm guessing? What are the chances of me pulling this one off? I'm gonna have a mechanic look at it tomorrow afternoon i'll try post on my break cos they'll be able to do what you've all tried to do.. get a closer look. Thanks guys!
If its just a HG do ya reckon I could do it myself or best leave it to someone in the knowhow?

Thanks again to all who posted here. As always I can rely on fellow boards members for assistance!

Is this the head gasket?

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