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Should children be expected to care for their parents in old age?

  • 02-07-2011 9:55pm
    #1
    SparkyTech
    Closed Accounts Posts: 590 ✭✭✭


    With many of us living, or expecting to live, into old age, and the cost of caring for our elderly/pensions/nursing home care under debate, should today's generation be forced to provide room and board for their ageing parents?

    Are the parents responsible for financially securing their elderly care/affairs? Is it the responsibility of the state to look after the elderly ,or is it a combination of responsibility between the parents and their children?

    What do you think?


«13

Comments

  • #2
    Jaafa
    Registered Users Posts: 2,621 ✭✭✭Jaafa


    Children should give their elderly parents everything they need. Don't rely on the state.


  • #3
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,021 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    SparkyTech wrote: »
    What do you think?

    You first !


  • #4
    pragmatic1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,573 ✭✭✭pragmatic1


    If they paid taxes the state should shoulder some of the work. Childern should also play their part. No one loves you like your parents and you owe them for basically everything. I'd never see my auld ones stuck.


  • #5
    maglite
    Registered Users Posts: 1,783 ✭✭✭maglite


    Yes, who else will,

    The state gets its money from the working generation. The other option would be take them out back and shoot them for squandering their money.


  • #6
    omahaid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,497 ✭✭✭omahaid


    Yep, that's why we're going to have 15 of them. Wife doesn't know this yet though


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  • #7
    SparkyTech
    Closed Accounts Posts: 590 ✭✭✭SparkyTech


    pragmatic1 wrote: »
    If they paid taxes the state should shoulder some of the work. Childern should also play their part. No one loves you like your parents and you owe them for basically everything. I'd never see my auld ones stuck.
    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    You first !

    I share the same opinion as pragmatic. Some of the responsibility lies with the state, some of it lies with the kids.


  • #8
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,021 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    The state should be responsible where the individuals cannot meet the cost from their own assets.
    pragmatic1 wrote: »
    No one loves you like your parents and you owe them for basically everything.

    Generalise much ?


  • #9
    flutterflye
    Registered Users Posts: 3,538 ✭✭✭flutterflye


    In a way I'd love this.
    I would get to treat my dad the way he treated me.
    Unfortunately I don't think I have it in me to be that deliberately cruel though.

    Anyway, I can see the 'for' side to this argument.
    -To help those who brought you up when their time comes to be the ones needing looking after.
    -To save on money
    -To save on national tax (the little that goes to care of the elderly)
    -To assist having a more functional, united society
    -To ensure the elderly are not lonely, scared, unwell, vulnerable, easy targets for theft etc...

    However it is not even remotely feasible.
    (Where I say 'children', I mean the adult children)
    -What about when the parents or children are estranged? (ill treatment, ethical issues, feuds, anything really)
    -What if the parent left the family home and never knew the child?
    -The children would need regular vetting and monitoring to ensure the parent was being cared for properly
    -The children may be in a bad financial situation
    -The children may have family, work, or other responsibilities that cannot be dropped
    -The children may not have sufficient accommodation for the parent
    -The child may be physically or mentally unwell or unfit to care for the parent

    Oh there's loads more pro's and con's, but it is clear to me that it would never work on a practical level.


  • #10
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,030 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    It depends.

    Parents who deserve it should be cared for.

    Parents who don't should die as they lived.


  • #11
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,021 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    flutterflye wrote: »
    However it is not even remotely feasible.

    You left out a few.

    The kids live abroad
    The kids died before their parents
    The person in question never had kids


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  • #12
    AnneElizabeth
    Registered Users Posts: 519 ✭✭✭AnneElizabeth


    Of course not! My mother constantly complains about how wrong it is that old people expect to be minded by their children. Some man she knows has taken six months unpaid leave to mind his mother...
    I've already picked an old folks home for my parents :P


  • #13
    policarp
    Registered Users Posts: 3,658 ✭✭✭policarp


    Bring back the olden days when there was big families.
    There was always someone there to do something...


  • #14
    flutterflye
    Registered Users Posts: 3,538 ✭✭✭flutterflye


    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    You left out a few.

    The kids live abroad
    The kids died before their parents
    The person in question never had kids

    That is why I also said the following...
    flutterflye wrote: »
    Oh there's loads more pro's and con's, but it is clear to me that it would never work on a practical level.

    But yes, they are all extremely valid points.


  • #15
    crotalus667
    Registered Users Posts: 1,900 ✭✭✭crotalus667


    only if they want to and can do , not every one can provide propper care


  • #16
    smk89
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,163 ✭✭✭smk89


    Jaafa wrote: »
    Children should give their elderly parents everything they need. Don't rely on the state.

    This isn't the musketeers club. All for one and one for all, if the state organises a system and does it well they can make it cheaper and better than if we all go it alone.


  • #17
    themadchef
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,813 ✭✭✭themadchef


    Zombies will have us before then....

    They are coming you know, to feast on your goo.


  • #18
    stovelid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,252 ✭✭✭✭stovelid


    I would love to see a society where provision for the well being of children and the elderly was paramount even if it required higher taxes.

    In the absence of such, I will do everything I possibly can to care my parents if they need me.

    I understand that many of the sentiments in this post ( less money in your pocket to care for others or filial love and repayment) will be repugnant to many AH posters but there you go.
    Jaafa wrote: »
    Children should give their elderly parents everything they need. Don't rely on the state.

    Bollocks.

    I will have paid the bones of 40 years of tax by the time I retire. It's not unreasonable to want a society where some kind of provision for the elderly is provided,.


  • #19
    katiebelle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 172 ✭✭katiebelle


    Parents can be very stubborn about not taking any help. I had thought when my mum first became ill they were coping. Then I found my mother sitting in her own wee in the sitting room. She could not make it to the bathroom in time. I had to step in and organize many of the practical things like adult nappies 24 hour oxygen stair lift etc. My parents flat out refused to let a home help in the door. They were easily entitled to this but would not have strangers in the house. It put more pressure on me even though i was working full time , single parent and so on you know the drill. My many siblings just walked away from this situation and really only got involved at the very end when my mother was finally in a nursing home as my dad and I could no longer cope. All they had to do was visit her from time to time and they could not even manage that.
    Now its my dads turn and again Its down to me. He is very elderly but still somewhat independent but wont take any supports like home help. What do you do in that situation ???


  • #20
    flutterflye
    Registered Users Posts: 3,538 ✭✭✭flutterflye


    policarp wrote: »
    Bring back the olden days when there was big families.
    There was always someone there to do something...

    I actually love the idea of the olden day large family community, and the way some nationalities, and some tribes all work together in a similar manner.

    The thing is though that it is simply not functional in our present society.
    The nuclear family is here because it is what works.
    There are so many reasons why it is the way it is, and why it remains this way.
    Unless there is some major shift in societal or economical structure (bigger than our current recession), I cannot envision this occurring in the foreseeable future.

    In our world of information, services, materialism, greed, transport, education, mass media, urbanisation, medical advances etc... and all that comes with it, a large community style family unit is not really compatible for society to function.


    Nice idea in an ideal word though....

    Eh... may have gone a tad off topic again. :o


  • #21
    OPENROAD
    Registered Users Posts: 11,692 ✭✭✭✭OPENROAD


    I look after my mum and have done for 8 years, I never thought about not looking after her as she is my my best friend, not just my mum and this has certainly made it easier for me to do it, oh the likes of AH helps also ;)

    As she has gotten worse, I now have to do everything for her, and when I say everything I mean everything ;) It is very much a 24/7 thing.

    What I would like to see is more recognition from the state for the work all carers do. Mainly because Carers save the state an absolute fortune every year.


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  • #22
    Cork Lass
    Registered Users Posts: 6,804 ✭✭✭Cork Lass


    My father lives in a care home. He has alzhiemers and is completely incoherent as well as wheelchair bound. He paid his taxes (full and plenty I might add) and is now in a private home availing of the Fair Deal scheme. We still pay a portion of his fees and will pay a percentage from the sale of the house at a later stage. I think he deserves this as if we were to care for him it would mean 1 if not 2 of us having to give up work to do so. This in turn would lead to us applying for carers allowance. So what would be the difference in cost to the state? I admire anyone who does this but would not expect it from my children or spouse and have made this very clear to them.


  • #23
    flutterflye
    Registered Users Posts: 3,538 ✭✭✭flutterflye


    katiebelle wrote: »
    What do you do in that situation ???

    That sounds very tough. For all of you.

    I don't know what you can do, but maybe ask your doctor or phn?


  • #24
    ejmaztec
    Registered Users Posts: 23,971 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    AnneElizabeth wrote: »
    Of course not! My mother constantly complains about how wrong it is that old people expect to be minded by their children. Some man she knows has taken six months unpaid leave to mind his mother...
    I've already picked an old folks home for my parents :P

    Didn't the HSE close that one a couple of weeks ago?:confused:


  • #25
    Sardonicat
    Registered Users Posts: 12,378 ✭✭✭✭Sardonicat


    Having worked in many nursing homes I can categorically state that you would have to kill me before i would allow my father into one of those places. And I'm talking about the good ones here.

    I nursed my mother at home when she was dying from cancer and I am staying with my dad. He doesnt need much in the way of care now but as he ages this is likely to change. Caring for parents wouldnt be the heavy task it is if families spread the burden between them. Saddly, in most cases, one person is left to shoulder the load alone while the rest happily get on with their lives. They excuse this selfishness with glib lip serivce and double edged praise for the carer (isn't she fantastic, i wouldnt have the patience....). while i agree that the state should provide a decent elder care service, the fact is it doesnt. If you want to ensure decent, dignified care for your folks the only thing to do is to provide it yourself.


  • #26
    katiebelle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 172 ✭✭katiebelle


    Sardonicat wrote: »
    Having worked in many nursing homes I can categorically state that you would have to kill me before i would allow my father into one of those places. And I'm talking about the good ones here.

    That's a comment that sends a chill down my spine. My mother was in one of the better homes and it had a total open door policy . I went at all times of the day and night. I did still have to weigh in and get heavy with the staff on occasion because of certain issues. At least she was not there too long as she passed away shortly after going in there.

    I doubt my father will end up in one. I would be in a better position I think to be able to take him in. Besides he is all there cognitively and he would refuse to go into one anyway


  • #27
    oldyouth
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,754 ✭✭✭oldyouth


    I wanted for nothing, either physical or emotional, as I grew up. The question doesn't bear considerarion as far as I am concerned, though I appreciate it isn't the same for everyone


  • #28
    policarp
    Registered Users Posts: 3,658 ✭✭✭policarp


    flutterflye wrote: »
    Nice idea in an ideal word though....

    Eh... may have gone a tad off topic again. :o

    Yuppie 2.4 Kids per family means parents pay for everything and then some...
    In the old days the Eldest son got the farm, the next could be a Priest or a Christian Brother , girls were second class citisens to be sold off to the best suitor.


  • #29
    Lady Chatterton
    Registered Users Posts: 19,585 ✭✭✭✭Lady Chatterton


    Sardonicat wrote: »
    Caring for parents wouldnt be the heavy task it is if families spread the burden between them. Sadly, in most cases, one person is left to shoulder the load alone while the rest happily get on with their lives. They excuse this selfishness with glib lip serivce and double edged praise for the carer (isn't she fantastic, i wouldnt have the patience....)

    Sardy, I completely agree with you, people can be incredibly selfish sometimes. One of my best friends has taken leave from work to care for her mother who is ill. My friend is one of five adult children but she is the only one who isn't married so the rest of them have left the role of caring to her. It is very unfair and I can see her becoming completely burn out and ill herself as she is on the go 24/7.

    As you say if families pulled together it would make the load lighter. My granny is in her eighties and she has six children and loads of grandchildren, we have a rota in place and everyone helps out so thankfully, she is happy and able to live an independent life at home despite having serious health issues.


  • #30
    Lady Chatterton
    Registered Users Posts: 19,585 ✭✭✭✭Lady Chatterton


    OPENROAD wrote: »
    I look after my mum and have done for 8 years, I never thought about not looking after her as she is my my best friend, not just my mum and this has certainly made it easier for me to do it, oh the likes of AH helps also ;)

    As she has gotten worse, I now have to do everything for her, and when I say everything I mean everything ;) It is very much a 24/7 thing.

    What I would like to see is more recognition from the state for the work all carers do. Mainly because Carers save the state an absolute fortune every year.
    Your mam is so lucky to have someone as kind and considerate as you in her life to look after her.


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  • #31
    Sardonicat
    Registered Users Posts: 12,378 ✭✭✭✭Sardonicat


    Just to ad; I'm not judging anyone who has had to place an elderly relative into care. I know there are times when care at home is just not feasable. But please, please research any care homes well and make sure you choose one with an open door policy 24/7 and don't be afraid to drop in any time, esp if your relative has dementia or their ability to communicate is impaired.

    I've worked in places where the staff nurse just went to sleep at night and left me to make sure the patients were ok overnight. On top of this I had to clean, do laundry and load the dishwasher and prepare for breakfast in the morning. What you need to remember is that care assistants are there to care for patients, not do general domestic work. If your relative is in a place at night where the care staff are doing the housework they are at a greater risk of falling or becoming ill without anyone noticing because the carers cant do the work they are supposed to do. things like this are a give away. Always call in at night, stay til about 11pm and have a good look around.


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