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After Kenny is gone

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    #92
    rugbyman
    Registered Users Posts: 1,783 ✭✭✭rugbyman


    You hit on the nail Irlandese,

    "By the way, ask Lenihan if he has been a member of Opus dei from his college days and how many other cabinet members and incidentally how many FG front bench TD's are also members in good standing???"

    That and Knights of Columbanus,

    the tentacles reach down from the Dail, local govt. banks, Guards etc.

    Rugbyman


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    #93
    Aidric
    Registered Users Posts: 13,589 ✭✭✭✭Aidric


    astrofool wrote: »
    Kenny's only hope would be to work the backbenches for a while, and hope to get a cabinet table later on.

    A bit like Hague has done in the UK.
    Good comparison and I think you're right.


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    #94
    rightwingdub
    Registered Users Posts: 725 ✭✭✭rightwingdub


    rugbyman wrote: »
    You hit on the nail Irlandese,

    "By the way, ask Lenihan if he has been a member of Opus dei from his college days and how many other cabinet members and incidentally how many FG front bench TD's are also members in good standing???"

    That and Knights of Columbanus,

    the tentacles reach down from the Dail, local govt. banks, Guards etc.

    Rugbyman

    I heard Hanafin was involved in Opus Dei also apparently John Bruton was previously involved as well.


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    #95
    Tinker13
    Registered Users Posts: 76 ✭✭Tinker13


    I think FF should have been ousted at the last General Election in 2007. In relation to his personal finances, Bertie Ahern was plainly making it up as he went along and being caught out time and again in public.

    Also, most people knew that we were definitely facing a downturn.

    However, when push came to shove, the electorate decided "better the devil you know..."

    Was this in relation to not wanting Enda Kenny as leader?...

    ...or was it just that no one wanted FG in general. ( I seem to remember some populist FG proposal to reimburse Eircom shareholders if elected.)


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    #96
    rightwingdub
    Registered Users Posts: 725 ✭✭✭rightwingdub


    Tinker13 wrote: »

    ...or was it just that no one wanted FG in general. ( I seem to remember some populist FG proposal to reimburse Eircom shareholders if elected.)

    That was 2002 under Michael Noonan also don't forget his idiotic proposal to compensate the taxi drivers as well.:D


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    #97
    Irlandese
    Registered Users Posts: 538 ✭✭✭Irlandese


    rightwingdub wrote: »
    I heard Hanafin was involved in Opus Dei also apparently John Bruton was previously involved as well.
    Oh there are a lot more of them in the Dail and especially the front benches and in the various permanent executives like the gardai, health services and all over the civil service, especially Dept. of education, Justice and Finance, than an un-suspecting "almost-democratic" populance are aware.
    But, does anyone think we would ever get to know who is a member of a secretive, re-actionary society, like Opus Dei or other shadowy power-clubs, as well as having great civil and political power over our lives and futures?
    Not a hope.
    Comments?


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    #98
    Tinker13
    Registered Users Posts: 76 ✭✭Tinker13


    rightwingdub wrote: »
    ...don't forget his idiotic proposal to compensate the taxi drivers as well.:D

    Yes absolutely. It seems that FG, instead of taking an easy win, seem to always come out with something daft that scares all of the floating voters away.


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    #99
    rightwingdub
    Registered Users Posts: 725 ✭✭✭rightwingdub


    Tinker13 wrote: »
    Yes absolutely. It seems that FG, instead of taking an easy win, seem to always come out with something daft that scares all of the floating voters away.

    Kenny promised free laptops for schoolkids in 2006 as well:D


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    #100
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    rightwingdub wrote: »
    Kenny promised free laptops for schoolkids in 2006 as well:D

    Is there a point to this quote ?

    Or can I just randomly throw in a reminder that John "Expenses" O'Donoghue promised zero tolerance on crime ?


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    #101
    rightwingdub
    Registered Users Posts: 725 ✭✭✭rightwingdub


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    Is there a point to this quote ?

    Or can I just randomly throw in a reminder that John "Expenses" O'Donoghue promised zero tolerance on crime ?

    Just pointing out the rubbish that Kenny has come out with as leader of FG, as much as I can't stand Biffo I actually think Kenny would be even worse.


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    #102
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    rightwingdub wrote: »
    Just pointing out the rubbish that Kenny has come out with as leader of FG, as much as I can't stand Biffo I actually think Kenny would be even worse.

    For all his faults, Kenny didn't screw the country over.

    As for "coming out with rubbish"......try Cowen & Co blaming Lehmans in the montage on PrimeTime last week.


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    #103
    Irlandese
    Registered Users Posts: 538 ✭✭✭Irlandese


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    Is there a point to this quote ?

    Or can I just randomly throw in a reminder that John "Expenses" O'Donoghue promised zero tolerance on crime ?
    The point is that we can laugh all we like at the american "tea Parties" or Sarah palin etc etc but at least they and other democracies have some kind of accountability. We do not. Our politicians are an elite, an upper class or caste, who treat us like the plonkers we are to accept their bullsh%t like free toothbrushes in school ( haughey) or Kenny ( I will be "Miss-Elf" ) and his computers etc etc.
    When will we ever grow up as a nation and send some of these guys to jail as opposed to the Seanad??


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    #104
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    Irlandese wrote: »
    When will we ever grow up as a nation and send some of these guys to jail as opposed to the Seanad??

    While I do think that Kenny needs his head examined after today, I don't think that he has done anything to warrant jail-time; that's in sharp contrast to certain FF leaders.


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    #105
    Irlandese
    Registered Users Posts: 538 ✭✭✭Irlandese


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    While I do think that Kenny needs his head examined after today, I don't think that he has done anything to warrant jail-time; that's in sharp contrast to certain FF leaders.
    How can you even begin to know if he has had his nose in the trough like the rest of them?
    Can you be certain he is not a member of Opus Dei? Has a relative, business associate or lover with a financial interest in relation to any bail outs or loans or non-standard, too favourable decisions by banks or state agencies or employers with contracts with government or bank bodies??
    Ever influenced a planning permission for a "friend"?
    Go on out of it.
    This is Gombeen Ireland we are talking about................


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    #106
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    Irlandese wrote: »
    How can you even begin to know if he has had his nose in the trough like the rest of them?

    I can't "know".

    However I do go on the premise of innocent until proven (or blatantly obviously) guilty.

    The day someone digs up some dirt on Kenny that compares to Haughey, Ahern & Co, or points out damage that he has done that equates to Cowen's mismanagement, I'll be on here like a shot - don't worry.

    But at the moment, there's no reason to consider of that magnitude - just woeful bad handling of this week's events.


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    #107
    T runner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,307 ✭✭✭T runner


    Irlandese wrote: »
    Oh there are a lot more of them in the Dail and especially the front benches and in the various permanent executives like the gardai, health services and all over the civil service, especially Dept. of education, Justice and Finance, than an un-suspecting "almost-democratic" populance are aware.
    But, does anyone think we would ever get to know who is a member of a secretive, re-actionary society, like Opus Dei or other shadowy power-clubs, as well as having great civil and political power over our lives and futures?
    Not a hope.
    Comments?

    Yes, if we will never get to know then how do you know? Are you in Opus-Dei?


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    #108
    Aidric
    Registered Users Posts: 13,589 ✭✭✭✭Aidric


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    epitomised by Cowen's "those f*&%ers" outburst in the Dáil a while back.
    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    That didn't stop the far worse (on so many levels) dis dat Be-be-bertie....
    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    Considering that those "procedural issues" are allowing FF to subvert democracy, I think they're perfectly right to highlight and complain about those....

    .....in doing so, they're certainly trying to represent me, anyway!
    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    just happened to be the same week as the FF TDs were skiving off on early holidays......
    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    you get a sense of competency from Lenihan and Cowen, despite their many, many appearances in the media lying through their teeth and mentioning Lehman Bros at every opportunity ?
    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    Sorry ? Complaining and blaming FF for refusing to hold by-elections and refusing to discuss the reports is somehow not "in the national interest" ?
    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    Cowen and Lenihan (and indeed most of those trotted out over the past year when apologist bluffers / liars were required, as seen on PrimeTime's intro) regularly put both feet in it with blatant lies and mistruths
    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    I laughed my head off when I read this. The idiot who sold us down the swanee with an over-enthusiastic, panicked bank bailout ?

    And the same idiot that blamed Lehmans ?

    I couldn't care less whether there is "charisma" (some people said both Haughey and Ahern had it, although I never saw it, and look where that got us) or whether someone comes out with naff soundbites, as long as they can do their job.
    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    He certainly didn't connect with me or understand my psyche. He came across as an untrustworthy used car salesman, tbh.
    OMG!!!! The fact that he's sick is irrelevant, and I hope to God that even FF have more sense than to allow someone do the most important job in the state because "it's perhaps a helpful distraction from his illness" !!! :eek:
    That's your call, but I cannot see why, and anything that you said in the above post is about as convincing as Ahern's claims about his finances.
    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    As for "coming out with rubbish"......try Cowen & Co blaming Lehmans in the montage on PrimeTime last week.
    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    While I do think that Kenny needs his head examined after today, I don't think that he has done anything to warrant jail-time; that's in sharp contrast to certain FF leaders.

    What % of your posts are spent bashing FF would you say?


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    #109
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    Aidric wrote: »
    What % of your posts are spent bashing FF would you say?

    If by "bashing" you mean "pointing out the facts", I'd say probably around 80%; they've given me plenty of ammunition, that's for sure.

    Anyway, do you have a point that you wanted to make ?

    Did you see anything in any of those posts that you went to the bother of quoting that is in any way inaccurate or unfair ?


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    #110
    Aidric
    Registered Users Posts: 13,589 ✭✭✭✭Aidric


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    Anyway, do you have a point that you wanted to make ?
    No doubt FF have badly mismanaged. It just appears to me, on the face of it, that your analysis always seeks to get a swipe in at FF. Hatred never made for rational analysis.


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    #111
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    Aidric wrote: »
    No doubt FF have badly mismanaged. It just appears to me, on the face of it, that your analysis always seeks to get a swipe in at FF. Hatred never made for rational analysis.

    You're missing the chicken for the egg.

    Rational analysis of their actions and their ethos has caused me to hate FF. Not the other way around.

    I'll ask again. Did you see anything unfair or untrue in what I posted ?


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    #112
    Laminations
    Registered Users Posts: 4,693 ✭✭✭Laminations


    Aidric wrote: »
    What % of your posts are spent bashing FF would you say?

    Oh please, are the banking reports bashing FF? What about the tribunals investigating corruption? Are ~80% of the electorate that are unhappy with FF and who have no faith in Cowen bashing FF? Right now an internal FG party dispute is grabbing the headlines above the recognition of Cowens incompetence and FFs complicity in our downfall. Focusing on such a minor issue with respect to the problems this country is in could be considered bashing


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    #113
    T runner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,307 ✭✭✭T runner


    Irlandese wrote: »
    This is Gombeen Ireland we are talking about................

    Speak for yourself. I am part of a few voluntary organisations who are Irish and far from gombeen. The vast majority of people in this country are decent people.


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    #114
    Laminations
    Registered Users Posts: 4,693 ✭✭✭Laminations


    Aidric wrote: »
    No doubt FF have badly mismanaged. It just appears to me, on the face of it, that your analysis always seeks to get a swipe in at FF. Hatred never made for rational analysis.

    Like Liam said, a rational analysis of their actions (Bertie in particular for me) can only result in something that Borders on hatred. I certainly don't respect them as a party


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    #115
    Bersouth
    Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭Bersouth


    irishh_bob wrote: »
    you seem to assume that because fianna fail have buggered up the country , fine gael ( under enda kenny ) have an automatic right to walk into goverment , just because cowen is a disaster doesnt mean the electorate have to endorse kenny , why benchmark against someone like biffo
    Fine Gael reckon they are the party to sort out the mess the country is in .... let them start with their own house!!!!!


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    #116
    Foxtrol
    Registered Users Posts: 11,006 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    Laminations wrote: »
    Oh please, are the banking reports bashing FF? What about the tribunals investigating corruption? Are ~80% of the electorate that are unhappy with FF and who have no faith in Cowen bashing FF? Right now an internal FG party dispute is grabbing the headlines above the recognition of Cowens incompetence and FFs complicity in our downfall. Focusing on such a minor issue with respect to the problems this country is in could be considered bashing

    I hope you aren't saying that the leadership contest in FG is a "minor issue". More than likely this internal dispute is going to decide who the next leader of the country is going to be.


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    #117
    T runner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,307 ✭✭✭T runner


    Laminations wrote: »
    Like Liam said, a rational analysis of their actions (Bertie in particular for me) can only result in something that Borders on hatred. I certainly don't respect them as a party

    In truth, a conclusion of hatred is always an irrational one.


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    #118
    T runner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,307 ✭✭✭T runner


    Laminations wrote: »
    Oh please, are the banking reports bashing FF? What about the tribunals investigating corruption? Are ~80% of the electorate that are unhappy with FF and who have no faith in Cowen bashing FF? Right now an internal FG party dispute is grabbing the headlines above the recognition of Cowens incompetence and FFs complicity in our downfall. Focusing on such a minor issue with respect to the problems this country is in could be considered bashing

    Im afraid the main opposition party to deciding to have a leadership squabble the same week as a confidence vote in the Taoseach is actually headline news. You are blaming others again for FGs incompetence.


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    #119
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    Foxtrol wrote: »
    I hope you aren't saying that the leadership contest in FG is a "minor issue". More than likely this internal dispute is going to decide who the next leader of the country is going to be.

    That's a fair point, but FF decided that internally when Ahern's shenannigans caught up with him, without FF even making even a nod towards democracy or public opinion.

    Why should FG be any different ?


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    #120
    Wide Road
    Closed Accounts Posts: 412 ✭✭Wide Road


    Hi,Im new here. Just wondering if anyone heard Dr James O'Reilly on radio earlier? He spoke about Enda winning the confidence motion and Richard re-joining the front bench soon after. How can this happen after R Brutons interview on the tv news. I know Dr Reilly didn't mention it on tv news but surely he isn't speaking for the majority of Endas supporters. Strange.


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    #121
    nacho libre
    Registered Users Posts: 16,637 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    He certainly didn't connect with me or understand my psyche. He came across as an untrustworthy used car salesman, tbh.



    Hang on a sec! I'm being harsh on him, because he isn't qualified ?

    If I I took on a job as a brain surgeon and killed someone, would you forgive me on the same basis ?


    Facing Vincent Browne is irrelevant if you do so to repeat the lie that this had anything to do with Lehmans.



    OMG!!!! The fact that he's sick is irrelevant, and I hope to God that even FF have more sense than to allow someone do the most important job in the state because "it's perhaps a helpful distraction from his illness" !!! :eek:

    I mean, I was almost happy simply disagreeing with you until I read the above!


    .

    well maybe not to you but Ahern to enough people was a very good salesman;)

    I'm not saying Lenihan should be in the job because he has cancer or given a free pass because of his illness, i'm merely saying I admire lenihan for his response to an overwhelming predicatment in his life and his determination to keep working. There is nothing wrong in admiring someone displaying mental fortitude.

    Neither am I saying Lenihan is the most qualified person to do the job, but if we are honest most ministers have no expertise in the ministeries they are assigned to.

    He (Lenihan),when he was appointed as Finance minister, was, as David McWilliams said, akin to Mcwilliams being appointed attorney general in a time of constitutional crisis.
    With that in mind he has made mistakes, but i apportion most of the blame to the people around him in the department of finance who should have an in depth knowledge of economics. He is of course associated with FF but i don't hold him responsible for the quagmire we're in, as it was Ahern and Cowen who took the decisions that landed us in the mess we are in. He has been left with the mess to clean up.
    So to answer your question if you took on the job in good faith and tried your best to get up to speed on the requirements of the job, and carried out the operation, despite upheaval in your personal life, I wouldn't hold it against you for the operation being a failure. However, if you stood in the way of someone more qualified than you due to arrogance and refused to acknowledge that person was better qualified to carry out the operation then, yes, i'd hold it against you.
    The latter is in effect what Fianna Fail are doing when there is the like of Bruton and Burton waiting in the wings.


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