Season 4 Finale : HAVE read the books - spoilers possible

December2012 · 15-06-2014 4:40pm #1

So here we are, approaching the end of a magnificent season and one of the best books in the book series.

The promo is here: http://youtu.be/_PA4pfwmFyE

The title is "the Children"

Possibly referencing Danaerys and her dragons, the shepherds daughter, LS, the Children of the Forest.

And of course, Tyrion and Tywin.

Can't wait!

GerB40 · 15-06-2014 5:05pm

Usually I watch the new episodes first thing Monday morning but I'm going to wait till the evening to watch it with my non-reader friends. I want to experience the shock of Tyrion sorting out his daddy issues, I want to see if the hound gets mercy, I want to see Brans storyline see some sort of resolution. But most of all I want to relive the WHAT THE MOTHERFÚCKIN ABSOLUTE FÚCK?! moment of meeting what's left of Catelyn Stark..

I genuinely envy those who don't know what's in store for this finale. Bástards..

Soft Falling Rain · 15-06-2014 8:57pm

GerB40 wrote: »

Usually I watch the new episodes first thing Monday morning but I'm going to wait till the evening to watch it with my non-reader friends. I want to experience the shock of Tyrion sorting out his daddy issues, I want to see if the hound gets mercy, I want to see Brans storyline see some sort of resolution. But most of all I want to relive the WHAT THE MOTHERFÚCKIN ABSOLUTE FÚCK?! moment of meeting what's left of Catelyn Stark..

I genuinely envy those who don't know what's in store for this finale. Bástards..

Well, in a way, you don't really know what's in store either. I've a feeling there's going to be a lot of outrage tomorrow morning, even if the episode is brilliant.

It's sad tbh, personally as long as we get a quality episode I won't be too worried about deviations or omissions.

bopper · 15-06-2014 9:15pm

Soft Falling Rain wrote: »

Well, in a way, you don't really know what's in store either. I've a feeling there's going to be a lot of outrage tomorrow morning, even if the episode is brilliant.

I have to quote this hilarious post from imdb. I think it's pretty accurate.

Much like every major event, the forum will be filled with hate.

People will hate if STANNIS! STANNIS! STANNIS! Isn't yelled for a full 15 minutes.
People will hate if stoneheart doesn't show up
People will hate if Dany shows up for more than one second, even if I do think her scene this episode will be good.
People will hate if the children of the forest don't look like how they pictured them
People will hate if the mountain is dead, and they dont show him poisoned.
People will hate if tyrion doesn't kill shae, or any of the scene is different.
People will hate if tywin doesn't say ''wherever whores go''
people will then hate if tyrion doesn't say something about *beep* gold even though he didn't even say it in the books.
People will hate absoloutely everything about this episode. EVEN IF IT IS THE BEST EPISODE THEY EVER MAKE, ONE THING WILL MAKE EVERYONE HATE IT.

Iwasfrozen · 16-06-2014 1:16am

bopper wrote: »

I have to quote this hilarious post from imdb. I think it's pretty accurate.

Man I don't care about anything else but i will shít gold if Tywin doesn't say "wherever whores go".

Tristram · 16-06-2014 1:46am

Tired Monday morning in work until I remembered I have this to look forward to later. Have perked up a bit now

Witcher · 16-06-2014 3:10am

Ending;

No LS..goddammit

Liam O · 16-06-2014 4:51am

Joke worthy altogether given what they had to work with. No Tysha, no Lady Stoneheart, it seems they are merging Bran's storyline with thatof Street Fighter or Mortal Kombat. I didn't think anything could annoy me more than Jojen dying the way he did but then they go and trivialise Tywins death. Everything was so short and pointless. The thing that Tyrion resents Tywin for the most completely cut out. Nothing between him and Jaime either. If Tyrion wasn't so wound up at Jaime's revelation he definitely would not have gone out to kill Tywin imo. I was really coming around to the show after how well they dealt with the changes at the Wall but I think this was the last episode I'll watch until the books are finished. Argh.

mrkite77 · 16-06-2014 6:42am

Bran's storyline with thatof Street Fighter or Mortal Kombat

No no, Bran is an Argonaut!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pF_Fi7x93PY

Nody · 16-06-2014 6:55am

I feel they missed a great opportunity to not only make cross season story lines but also to make it way more epic rather then tying up the story lines for the season and moving people to be ready for next season's story lines. Why not have Stanis with the wildlings attacking the wall? Or have Shae beg for mercy (my great lion) to make the scene even more a gut puncher...

Witcher · 16-06-2014 6:59am

I think the NW deserved the honour of repelling the first Wildling attack with their own strength, then Stannis breaks them before they can really hit the Wall. Played out pretty much the same as it did in the books.

GerB40 · 16-06-2014 7:28am

God fúcking dammit.... At every turn, for better or worse, I stood up for this show. Even changes I didn't like I understood because it's a tv adaptation. But what in the name of bollóx was that ending? There couldn't possibly be a better ending than Lady Stoneheart. I mean, the information is right there in the books but of course the bástards in charge had other ideas. Season 4 could have been the best, the finale (for me) fúcked that up...

Edit: Having thought about it, it makes a bit of sense television wise. Even though LS would have made an unbelievable cliffhanger the show runners need as much storyline for season 5, lest it be as uneventful as the books.
One possibility I've been thinking about is that they open next season with a seemingly irrelevant PoV from the eyes of a dire wolf wandering the wilds. The unknown wolf could pick up the scent of rotting flesh and eventually find the body of a naked woman washed up on a river bank. As soon as the feast begins Arya wakes up and viewers will realise that it was her warging into Nymeria (setting up the fact that she's a warg too).
The next time we see this corpse she won't be quite as dead....

December2012 · 16-06-2014 7:41am

Did anybody else watch all through the end credits thinking...ooooookaaaay maybe they'll sting the end with Stoneheart...... Any time now ...... Any time now...... Huh?

Soft Falling Rain · 16-06-2014 7:50am

Brienne and the Hound was absolutely brutal, heart in mouth stuff. Highlight of the episode for me.

TBH I kind of resigned myself to the fact that there would be no LS before they cut to Tyrion's escape. I was looking at the clock while The Hound was begging for mercy and it went on longer than I expected. So unless they were doing a rushed hatchet job on Tyrion (which I don't think they did) I knew there wouldn't be enough time to do the LS reveal justice.

Better to leave it to S5 than making a hamfisted effort at it before leaving us hanging (no pun intended) for 9 months.

FURET · 16-06-2014 8:19am

Disappointed with Tywin's death especially, and annoyed by Jojen's.

It's maddening that more time isn't spent with the characters. For example, I really wanted to see much more of Tywin's private reaction to Cersei's revelation. Was he shaking? Was he sitting in silence? Did he cry? Was he perhaps truly tempted to spare Tyrion given that he had only just learned that his favorite children are actually incestuous? Failure to spend more time with the characters robs them of the depth that they deserve. We never get to see characters on their own. If you think back to the Sopranos, the scenes of Tony or Paulie on their own, where they were the only ones in the scene, always managed to deepen the characters. We get none of that in GoT.

The series is suffering from overstretch. I wouldn't mind if they focused on fewer characters per episode if it meant that we could get to know them better.

ArmaniJeanss · 16-06-2014 9:28am

Hmmmm, haven't seen the episode yet but it sounds as if the live-in-running thread on westeros.org is going to be an absolute joyful read later.

Oh, and well played Lena Headley on that instragram LS pic a while back, top notch trolling.

bopper · 16-06-2014 10:55am

I am really really surprised we didn't see LS. Out of everything people were hoping for in the season finale she was the one thing I was certain they were going to include.

I am disappointed in the episode overall, but I think it's more a case of my hopes being built up so much. In retrospect I'll probably appreciate it a lot more.

username123 · 16-06-2014 11:03am

Im glad Ive read the thread now, Ill be watching the episode later. I have adjusted my expectations accordingly.

Soft Falling Rain · 16-06-2014 11:15am

The only worry I'd have about Lady Stoneheart's absence in this episode is that it would have made the most sense to pull the trigger now. Unless it's a very early introduction in S5 there would just be a slight worry that the character's dropped.

Rosy Posy · 16-06-2014 11:17am

I did enjoy the episode- Stannis at the wall was visually stunning and I also loved the way they've represented the children of the forest- very like how I had imagined them. I was minorly irked that Bloodraven didn't have the tree growing through his eye- it wasn't immediately obvious that he only had one eye, leaving the line 'a thousand eyes and one' somewhat redundant.

Even though I really enjoyed the extra dimension the Tysha storyline gave to the Lannisters, I can see why they left it out. It would be so hard to show how much it meant to Tyrion without the pov from inside his head.

Liam O · 16-06-2014 11:30am

Rosy Posy wrote: »

I did enjoy the episode- Stannis at the wall was visually stunning and I also loved the way they've represented the children of the forest- very like how I had imagined them. I was minorly irked that Bloodraven didn't have the tree growing through his eye- it wasn't immediately obvious that he only had one eye, leaving the line 'a thousand eyes and one' somewhat redundant.

Even though I really enjoyed the extra dimension the Tysha storyline gave to the Lannisters, I can see why they left it out. It would be so hard to show how much it meant to Tyrion without the pov from inside his head.

Not really, all you would have to do was show him being a dick to Jaime, literally the same as in the book. They just trivialised everything. It was a random decision from Tyrion to go and kill Tywin in this whereas in the book it was the Tysha revelation that drove him to take the biggest risk he could have at that moment. The scene on the privy just lacked the emotion required and Shae's death was also lacking something, probably a good actress more than anything.

The fireball thing wasn't in the book in any shape or form was it. To have Jojen reduced to being killed by his sister and obliterated by a fireball was silly. If you were going to have someone save them why not Coldhands? Just pointless deviations.

username123 · 16-06-2014 11:48am

Liam O wrote: »

It was a random decision from Tyrion to go and kill Tywin in this whereas in the book it was the Tysha revelation that drove him to take the biggest risk he could have at that moment.

Considering Twyin is responsible for sentencing Tyrion to death its hardly random!

Nody · 16-06-2014 11:58am

username123 wrote: »

Considering Twyin is responsible for sentencing Tyrion to death its hardly random!

Compared to the books? Yes it is. Why would he simply not run away which was the goal; why the need to get revenge on a father who's approval he's been craving since day 1? Because he found out about Tysha; his first true love. Instead in the episode he gets freed, is on his way out and as an after thought decides oh wait let me go kill my father before running away.

bopper · 16-06-2014 12:03pm

Nody wrote: »

Compared to the books? Yes it is. Why would he simply not run away which was the goal; why the need to get revenge on a father who's approval he's been craving since day 1? Because he found out about Tysha; his first true love. Instead in the episode he gets freed, is on his way out and as an after thought decides oh wait let me go kill my father before running away.

The episodes aren't written with "compared to the books" in mind though. Response to the episode from non readers seems to be largely positive.

username123 · 16-06-2014 12:09pm

Nody wrote: »

Compared to the books? Yes it is. Why would he simply not run away which was the goal; why the need to get revenge on a father who's approval he's been craving since day 1? Because he found out about Tysha; his first true love. Instead in the episode he gets freed, is on his way out and as an after thought decides oh wait let me go kill my father before running away.

Im not making a comparison with the books, this is the tv show under discussion is it not?

Given what we have seen on screen, Tywin has hurt Tyrion over and over again, its no surprise at all that Tyrion would want to kill him. Plus - he needs to get rid of him or the mighty reach of Tywin Lannister could follow him wherever he goes.

Nody · 16-06-2014 12:10pm

bopper wrote: »

The episodes aren't written with "compared to the books" in mind though. Response to the episode from non readers seems to be largely positive.

And if they had included Tysha (which would have taken 3 min dialogue earlier (with anyone, his old lover, new lover, squire, dreams while wounded etc. and another 1 min in this episode as a throw away comment from dear old brother) it would have been brilliant and explained but they did not; which is a pity. In the end the series is not based to be exactly as the book but a lot of it reflects over; adding a bit of human nature and character does not hurt the series and put the action in my clearer lights and helps justify the action better then "you sentenced me to death so now that I'm running away I'll kill you first!". It would also help set up the upcoming issues for Jamie regarding his feeling of his dwarf brother knowing he was the trigger for the action he took.

Mr.Prodston · 16-06-2014 12:27pm

I don't want to be that guy but.... (I will be :pac:)...goddammit they butchered it. Tywin's death was up there with the Red Wedding for me, moreso in fact. It all just seemed off, yes in broad strokes everything happened the same but it was so different at the same time. I'm not against Jaime and Tyrion ending on good terms but it's their conversation that truly is the catalyst. If Tysha was never mentioned on the show then fair enough but she was and they just seem to have missed a trick.

Also how the hell did the men in the Eyrie just leave Westeros' most wanted man and Arya Stark, you know one of the most important people in the realm who is presumed dead just leave? It just doesn't add up.

For what was billed as the finest hour of the show so far I can't help but feel massively underwhelmed. It's my problem I know and I'm sure people who just watch the show will be happy enough with what they've seen but it just niggles at me.

Dany's scene was well done, Stannis arrived, the hound isn't confirmed dead and Arya is off to Braavos. I enjoyed all of those scenes. A little surprised they killed Jojen off though.

I'll let it all sink in and rewatch it tonight so maybe I'll come back a little less grumpy. I'd even forgotten about Lady S but I'd better not start on that :P

Nerdlingr · 16-06-2014 12:47pm

No LS!! gutted. Was really looking forward to that reveal ! Thought the end of season 4 would have been perfect... it would leave the non book readers stewing over it for another year!! Last shot of the season + LS taking off her hood = Jaw on the ground moment. Think they missed a trick...dont know if the impact will be as big if they do it in the middle of next season.

jebidiah · 16-06-2014 1:10pm

Nerdlingr wrote: »

No LS!! gutted. Was really looking forward to that reveal ! Thought the end of season 4 would have been perfect... it would leave the non book readers stewing over it for another year!! Last shot of the season + LS taking off her hood = Jaw on the ground moment. Think they missed a trick...dont know if the impact will be as big if they do it in the middle of next season.

I still don't get why people were still hoping for that this season. It's been pretty obvious for the last few weeks that it wasn't going to happen soon.

We would need to be reintroduced to the BwB first at least. And there was no way they could have fit that in this episode.

Im pretty pissed they altered Jamie and Tyrions scene. Especially when they added the Beatle scene last week. I loved that scene, but I'd of dropped that in favor of the actuall conversation

RobbingBandit · 16-06-2014 1:19pm

Another pointless death in Jojen, Vargo Hoat death for the hound as she bit off his ear, great end scene with him and Arya. Scooby Doo Rains of Castamere when Jamie and Tyrion were running down the tunnel was good too.

Witcher · 16-06-2014 1:24pm

Jojen is dying in the books anyway, better off killing him now rather than dragging it out.

Season 4 Finale : HAVE read the books - spoilers possible

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