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Vegatable oil SVO from lidl/aldi

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  • 08-11-2007 5:47pm
    #1
    Lazairus
    Registered Users Posts: 303 ✭✭


    For the past six months i have been using vegetable oil in my car.
    I have some results and some comments to make
    what i have learned is this
    1 veg oil appears to have 5% more power than diesel.
    so when im driving at 60mph with diesel, I would be driving at 64 with vegoil/petrol mix.
    2. The car is a little harder to start with veg oil . so in the morning,and every time the engine is cold, i have to crank it 4 times for it to start. Plus you need a strong battery
    3.I have got no problems with the system , but i had to do a major overall in my car.my 95 1.9d Golf. new clutch , gearbox - the clutch went , and so i changed both , i had a spare gearbox , so i changed it, i Had to change the battery .
    Comments
    1. How clean is veg oil , Compared to diesel

    veg oil is higher in nitrates and lower in monoxide

    2 please if you are converting your car please purchase a in line fuel heater from an english site. here

    3. filling your car takes time and can be messy,it can stain your bumper. my system is put each bottle of veg oil into a 5 gallon drum and then fill the car
    using a funnel ,

    _ _ _ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ _

    A conversion for veg oil is simple
    1.Find your pump make Bosch only for 1 tank solution ,Cav/lucas you need 2 tank solution go to the online shop for elsbett here
    and go to cars/vans and find your car make, year ,( deisel only. ) and find your pump name it should be something like this
    VW-GOLF/VENTO/BORA/JETTA-1,9 D/1994-96//1896ccm/47kW/BOSCH/R

    2. once youve confirmed that you have a bosch pump . buy a heat exchanger
    here(email them and he will post it out)80Euro
    or inline fuel heater posted above , or both.
    3. install your heater/ exchanger by removing the pipe from the fuel filter and twin male connector joiner , attach it with jubilee clips. attach your heater ,and reattach the out of the heater back to the fuel filter.(buy extra fuel cable)
    4. Email me when you get steps 1-3 done . ill tell you the rest.

    Result = 80euro + 10 for clips and cable + joiner. and .69 cent for every bottle of veg oil. priceless.

    Ciarán.


Comments

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    #2
    silverharp
    Registered Users Posts: 17,840 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    I've no real expertise in this but over the longer term if more people around europe start doing this then the gov's will look for tax and the price of veg oil will increase as substitution sets in. It would seem a waste to process veg oil for supermarket shelves only to be put in a car.
    However it's great to have a backup supply in case there were any shortages

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



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    #3
    SeanW
    Registered Users Posts: 8,740 ✭✭✭SeanW


    Technically, the OP is breaking the law because he's using a road fuel on which no duty has been paid. There's no green dye in there so it would difficult for Revenue to tell but still.

    More power to you if it works, but I would advise the OP not to talk about this too much in a public forum, or indeed anywhere. Loose lips sink ships and all that.

    Moreover the environmental benefits of the OPs action are now in question because he's using food grade oils for his car AND there's a big plastic container wasted for every litre of fuel.

    Methinks a better and more legal setup wouldn't go amiss here.


  • Options
    #4
    Taildragon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 100 ✭✭Taildragon


    @SeanW

    You've made some good points. However..

    There is a concession from the Revenue on vegetable oil for road use (part of the Irish Government's Kyoto commitment, I understand) - there is a filling station near here that sells it at the pump for 80-odd cent/litre.

    I've heard that Tesco have the best price @ €2 for 3 litres ;)

    Of course the OP could go back to burning dinosaur diesel instead of "wasting" food grade cooking oil :D


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    #5
    Lazairus
    Registered Users Posts: 303 ✭✭Lazairus


    reply@SeanW

    :mad:Firstly i don't waste food oil .There is plenty to go around , and no , i don't just have to use veg oil , i can use any form of fuel , Ive chosen veg oil from Aldi because its the cheapest, after all i am a student , not a millionaire . Until i find a better and cheaper way to fill my car , im stuck, it is my plan to source rapeseed oil in bulk next summer , when i can afford it .eilish oils do a good deal.

    note the car in question is worth the around the thousand euro mark, why would i pay another thousand to elsbett? for a conversion kit i could make up myself?

    Secondly i don't waste plastic bottles of veg oil , all my bottles are taken to the recycling center(AES).

    thirdly legal my arse , legality has nothing to do with this i can just put diesel any time i want , im trying to use a cleaner fuel to save the environment, I try!? ,yet i will in future keep quiet about this , when i start using ppo , i can do/say what i want.

    im trying to make a change , what about u? . I will use any system thats cheaper , available and affordable.


  • Options
    #6
    silverharp
    Registered Users Posts: 17,840 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    Lazairus wrote: »
    im trying to make a change , what about u? . I will use any system thats cheaper , available and affordable.

    if you are doing this for green reasons, then you need to be happy that the fossil energy built into the bio fuel is significantly less then 1:1 and that your price is not distorted due to taxes on fuel or agricultural subsidies. you could end up with a situation that it takes more then 1lt of energy equivalent to make the oil substitute.

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



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  • Options
    #7
    Gurgle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,064 ✭✭✭Gurgle


    AFAIK, You 'should' pay excise duty @38c/litre on any substitute fuel you use in your car. This would put cooking oil at ~€1.07 per litre, cheaper than diesel is in most places anyway.


  • Options
    #8
    SeanW
    Registered Users Posts: 8,740 ✭✭✭SeanW


    In reply to Lazairus.

    Firstly, I'm glad to hear that you recycle the plastic bottles, the amount used was my first concern when I read your post.

    Secondly I wasn't criticising you for the road fuels duty bit, rather I was merely suggesting for your own sake that you avoid discussing your present source of oils too loudly.

    Hope this clarifies things.


  • Options
    #9
    PeterDuggan
    Registered Users Posts: 863 ✭✭✭PeterDuggan


    That sounds great Lazairus. Well done. I'd be curious to know have you measured the fuel consumption? Also the link to the in line fuel heater seems to be broken.


  • Options
    #10
    freddyuk
    Registered Users Posts: 1,110 ✭✭✭freddyuk


    I would keep a spare fuel filter in the car and a means to fit it. I don't know how many miles you have done but SVO cleans out all the gunk in the fuel system and it lodges in the filter which gets blocked. You may be a long way from home.
    As for the long term effects it is not really known but it is suggested you start on diesel and finish on diesel as you say the engine is struggling in cold because the fuel is too thick at low temperatures putting strain on the whole system. A twin tank system is advised using a Pollack valve.
    I stopped using it because an expert in the SVO market advised it is likely to cause long term damage but if your car is expendable it probably does not matter too much.


  • Options
    #11
    Ballantine
    Registered Users Posts: 27 ✭Ballantine


    SeanW wrote: »
    Technically, the OP is breaking the law because he's using a road fuel on which no duty has been paid.

    While I am aware that duty is imposed on certain fuels, can you quote the law where it says (i) any fuel used in a car must be subject to tax, and (ii)the rate it should be levied at.

    For example, should I choose to run my car on gas from my piggery, you seem to suggest that this would be illegal unless I paid tax on the gas I produce, and I'd like to see the laws you say you are aware of which demands this.


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    #12
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,695 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Ballantine wrote: »
    While I am aware that duty is imposed on certain fuels, can you quote the law where it says (i) any fuel used in a car must be subject to tax, and (ii)the rate it should be levied at.

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2010/en/act/pub/0011/print.html
    ‘biofuel producer’ means a person who produces biofuel for his or her own use or for sale;

    http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/excise/duties/excise-duty-rates.html
    Substitute Fuel (rates shown include carbon charge)
    Used as a propellant instead of unleaded petrol 587.71 per 1,000 litres
    Used as a propellant instead of diesel 479.02 per 1,000 litres
    Used other than as a propellant 102.28 per 1,000 litres


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    #13
    Ballantine
    Registered Users Posts: 27 ✭Ballantine


    Capt'n Midnight wrote: »
    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2010/en/act/pub/0011/print.html

    http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/excise/duties/excise-duty-rates.html

    Is it correct to suggest the obligation to charge and collect the duty is on the biofuel producer and/or supplier? I can't see where it is an obligation for the end user to pay any duties, levies or VAT except to the supplier.

    In any case, the oil in question is not being produced as a bio fuel, but for cooking.


  • Options
    #14
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,695 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Ballantine wrote: »
    Is it correct to suggest the obligation to charge and collect the duty is on the biofuel producer and/or supplier? I can't see where it is an obligation for the end user to pay any duties, levies or VAT except to the supplier.

    In any case, the oil in question is not being produced as a bio fuel, but for cooking.
    If you are caught with fuel on which duty hasn't been paid you can explain how it's completely different from using marked gas oil or laundered diesel on which some duty has been paid.


    If it's supplied as fuel from a legit dealer then you can assume the duty has been paid.

    If it's not supplied as fuel
    or the supplier is dodgy then you can get your car taken off you.


  • Options
    #15
    Ballantine
    Registered Users Posts: 27 ✭Ballantine


    Capt'n Midnight wrote: »
    If you are caught with fuel on which duty hasn't been paid you can explain how it's completely different from using marked gas oil or laundered diesel on which some duty has been paid.


    If it's supplied as fuel from a legit dealer then you can assume the duty has been paid.

    If it's not supplied as fuel
    or the supplier is dodgy then you can get your car taken off you.

    If I buy diesel in a garage and am stopped, I have no proof that duty or VAT has been paid. I may even have bought it outside the state which is quite legal, and so no duty or VAT has been paid to the state in that instance either.

    Sure, you mention possible penalties, but that doesn't really clarify the legal situation.


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    #16
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,695 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Ballantine wrote: »
    If I buy diesel in a garage and am stopped, I have no proof that duty or VAT has been paid. I may even have bought it outside the state which is quite legal, and so no duty or VAT has been paid to the state in that instance either.

    Sure, you mention possible penalties, but that doesn't really clarify the legal situation.
    All vat reduced fuel here and in the north have dyes added. So if there is no dye then you've paid the duty here or there.

    Have a look at the motors forum. A lot of people have spent a lot of time on this one. The revenue are very good at plugging any loopholes found.

    The impression is that if you play by the rules they are easy enough to deal with.


    The answer is of course an electric car with a trailer generator.


  • Options
    #17
    Ballantine
    Registered Users Posts: 27 ✭Ballantine


    Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

    The answer is of course an electric car with a trailer generator.

    Thats a fascinating idea and has got my head spinning a little! I presume that the generator + electric car idea is flawed ( in that it probably costs more in fuel to run the generator to either power the motor or charge the battries, than it would cost in fuel to power a pertol or diesel engine.

    What about if the roof and panels of the car were made of solar panels?


  • Options
    #18
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,695 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Ballantine wrote: »
    Thats a fascinating idea and has got my head spinning a little! I presume that the generator + electric car idea is flawed ( in that it probably costs more in fuel to run the generator to either power the motor or charge the battries, than it would cost in fuel to power a pertol or diesel engine.

    What about if the roof and panels of the car were made of solar panels?
    The generator is more of a range extender for electric cars

    the economics are totally governed by how much tax you can avoid , it might even mean having to park the car while recharging

    actually the generator can run at it's most efficient speed , rather than a car engine which has to run at a wide variety of mostly sub-optimal speeds


  • Options
    #19
    Bluefang
    Registered Users Posts: 21 ✭Bluefang


    Interesting thread - my advice to anyone considering SVO - get a mid to late 90's Peugot diesel with Bosch fuel system (be sure it is NOT Lucas) - the fuel filter is preheated, so no modifications neccesary for cold starts - at all.

    Get a Musgraves card or a friend / relative who has one and buy wholesale.

    A work colleague of mine has been running like this for a few years now - MPG is comparable, no extra maintenance.

    I would do it myself only my trip to work etc is a short one and diesels are only economical on long runs.

    Hope this helps someone reading the thread !


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