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does anyone run a herd of hereford sucklers

  • 28-05-2012 2:20pm
    #1
    vanderbadger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,087 ✭✭✭


    not talking about pedigree breeding here but you rarely see red white head cows anymore, just wondered if anyone runs a commercial herd of them with Ch bull for example, it should be a nice enough cross? would size be an issue?
    my own ch cross cows are grand quiet animals but i find them to be softish, give alot of trouble with their feet over the winter, thinking of buying in some heifers that i would go on to breed with ch bull. would love a few salers but cant be dealing with mad cattle so wondering about white heads maybe, anyone run a few in their suckler herds?


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Comments

  • #2
    bogman_bass
    Registered Users Posts: 5,057 ✭✭✭bogman_bass


    we have 1 whitehead cow and she did a good job on a FL22 bull calf.

    also have a couple of heifers out of late calving blue cows mainly for short gestation but they look nice heifers and I'll bull them when the time comes. It seems to be a nice cross and might try it again.

    we finish our stock off grass or sell as stores so they fit into our system. A blue works well because the hereford brings that bit of fat to the party that make the blue finishable off grass


  • #3
    Dozer1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,194 ✭✭✭Dozer1


    I've a couple, grand quiet cows good longevity and go incalf without much truble. Main issue I have is that some of them can be small height wise and like bogman says they do bring fat to the mix, unfortunately too much at times.
    I don't think you'll breed export quality BB's off them but when prices are good at home they are an economical cow and not too heavy on the land.

    I've had them calve to BB, CH and LM, and like I've said here before any weanlings you carry to the sales will tend to be lighter than those from cont cows. I've 3 CH bull calves off whitehead cows this year and if I put up a pic you'd defo say they were whitehead calves. Trying LM on them all again this year.


  • #4
    kermit_the_dog
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 159 ✭✭kermit_the_dog


    vanderbadger wrote: »
    not talking about pedigree breeding here but you rarely see red white head cows anymore, just wondered if anyone runs a commercial herd of them with Ch bull for example, it should be a nice enough cross? would size be an issue?
    my own ch cross cows are grand quiet animals but i find them to be softish, give alot of trouble with their feet over the winter, thinking of buying in some heifers that i would go on to breed with ch bull. would love a few salers but cant be dealing with mad cattle so wondering about white heads maybe, anyone run a few in their suckler herds?


    i know a shewd female farmer ( mid fifties ) who farms part time , she swears by hereford , accepts her weanlings are smaller but says the easy calving , hardiness and most of all , docility , makes up for it

    depends whether you are reliant on beef 100% i suppose , hereford are a lovely creature but fall down beside continential when it comes to figures

    as for saler , like comparing the devil to god


  • #5
    DMAXMAN
    Registered Users Posts: 328 ✭✭DMAXMAN


    a neighbour of ours runs a suckler herd with a good few hereford cross cows and keeps his own replacements.saying that he used to be simmental breeding and has a bit of size in the cows still from the simmental breeding.the stock look well and are very economical to keep. also he gets a bonus from the factory for hereford stock


  • #6
    pakalasa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,552 ✭✭✭pakalasa


    bogman_bass wrote: »
    we have 1 whitehead cow and she did a good job on a FL22 bull calf.
    Probably the longs legs of FL22 crossing well with the short legs of the whitehead.....:D


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  • #7
    bbam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,410 ✭✭✭bbam


    We had six or eight in our herd..
    I seriously don't think it is viable, easy calving and indeed dosile would definitely be traits..
    However your still not producing weanlings that catch the premium prices in the ring by the autumn... They seem to always bring €200 less than continental cross weanlings, sim-ch or lim-ch seem to get the premium round here.. With margins on the best animals being €200-300 your essentially running animals that should break even on an average year and may leave a profit in a good year..

    It comes down to the bottom line folks... If they're not making money there is no point in running them..


  • #8
    bogman_bass
    Registered Users Posts: 5,057 ✭✭✭bogman_bass


    it depends on your system. if you are selling weanlings then they arent really a runner


  • #9
    jay gatsby
    Registered Users Posts: 292 ✭✭jay gatsby


    bogman_bass wrote: »
    it depends on your system. if you are selling weanlings then they arent really a runner


    We keep a couple also and would agree with Bogman. they are grand when you are keeping progeny on to slaughter. You get the benefit of quick fattening and good use of grass. Also you get plenty of milk so you have the option of keeping on female progeny to breed from again.

    We vertainly don't get calves to match the big continental cattle but then sure they can't all be exported.


  • #10
    pakalasa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,552 ✭✭✭pakalasa


    If I was outwintering, I'd consider them at least as a 1/2 cross suckler cow. Easily kept and not bothered by bad weather.


  • #11
    simx
    Registered Users Posts: 2,556 ✭✭✭simx


    pakalasa wrote: »
    If I was outwintering, I'd consider them at least as a 1/2 cross suckler cow. Easily kept and not bothered by bad weather.


    we have 3 of them and 1 angus/hereford cross

    they produce excellent calves in my op,the angus/hf x produces the best id nearly say of the herd,easily kept cows and easy put fat on them and fertility good


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  • #12
    jay gatsby
    Registered Users Posts: 292 ✭✭jay gatsby


    pakalasa wrote: »
    If I was outwintering, I'd consider them at least as a 1/2 cross suckler cow. Easily kept and not bothered by bad weather.


    Yeah they are great for this, the few I have were out this Winter, not a harsh one I know but no matter how little grass they had they never lost a bit of condition. Was trying to get a bit of nick off them before calving actually.


  • #13
    Angus4life
    Registered Users Posts: 73 ✭✭Angus4life


    if its quite easy calving and hardy cattle the best job for u is angus cows and a weapon of a blue bull.. have 46 sucklers and gave 15 the blue bull last year and the calves they are producing are great never had to leave a hand on any cow and and have being putiing on muscle everyday since will be investing in a blue bull for all cows :p.. i agree wit the lads above hereford just dont make to in the ring :rolleyes:


  • #14
    leg wax
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,296 ✭✭✭leg wax


    Angus4life wrote: »
    if its quite easy calving and hardy cattle the best job for u is angus cows and a weapon of a blue bull.. have 46 sucklers and gave 15 the blue bull last year and the calves they are producing are great never had to leave a hand on any cow and and have being putiing on muscle everyday since will be investing in a blue bull for all cows :p.. i agree wit the lads above hereford just dont make to in the ring :rolleyes:
    can we see photos of these calves please :D


  • #15
    kermit_the_dog
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 159 ✭✭kermit_the_dog


    vanderbadger wrote: »
    not talking about pedigree breeding here but you rarely see red white head cows anymore, just wondered if anyone runs a commercial herd of them with Ch bull for example, it should be a nice enough cross? would size be an issue?
    my own ch cross cows are grand quiet animals but i find them to be softish, give alot of trouble with their feet over the winter, thinking of buying in some heifers that i would go on to breed with ch bull. would love a few salers but cant be dealing with mad cattle so wondering about white heads maybe, anyone run a few in their suckler herds?

    what about simental , quiet ( for continentals ) with plenty of milk , should cross well with charolais


  • #16
    kermit_the_dog
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 159 ✭✭kermit_the_dog


    Angus4life wrote: »
    if its quite easy calving and hardy cattle the best job for u is angus cows and a weapon of a blue bull.. have 46 sucklers and gave 15 the blue bull last year and the calves they are producing are great never had to leave a hand on any cow and and have being putiing on muscle everyday since will be investing in a blue bull for all cows :p.. i agree wit the lads above hereford just dont make to in the ring :rolleyes:


    you must have paid through the nose for a quality blue bull , dont their feet go to hell in no time


  • #17
    Tipp Man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,025 ✭✭✭Tipp Man


    kermit_the_dog wrote: »
    what about simental , quiet ( for continentals ) with plenty of milk , should cross well with charolais
    Wouldn't they weigh a lot more and eat a lot more than the Herford cows?


  • #18
    redzerologhlen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,329 ✭✭✭redzerologhlen


    I am a huge simmental fan but a lot of them actually seem to have too much milk, loose udders, calf not sucking all 4 tits until they are 5 or 6 weeks old and bottle tits with age. We manage with them because we are full time but for the part time lad I can see how this is a big turn off for them, it adds a lot to the workload and to be honest I dont think a whale of a simmental cow would be any better on the slats for the winter. My uncle let off a whitehead with 15 good limo cows last year, he wanted easier kept cows for the winterage and has some nice calfs out of them but like I said the cows are good but he will probably finish the bulls himself.


  • #19
    kermit_the_dog
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 159 ✭✭kermit_the_dog


    Tipp Man wrote: »
    Wouldn't they weigh a lot more and eat a lot more than the Herford cows?

    yes but holstiens way a lot more than jerseys yet their increased yield makes it worthwhile , same deal with larger beef breeds


  • #20
    pakalasa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,552 ✭✭✭pakalasa


    If I have a cow that is good in every way, but lacks milk, then I always cross to a simmental, to breed replacements. That's the advantage of AI, I suppose, you can pick a bull to suit each cow.


  • #21
    Dozer1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,194 ✭✭✭Dozer1


    If I have a cow that is good in every way, but lacks milk, then I always cross to a simmental, to breed replacements. That's the advantage of AI, I suppose, you can pick a bull to suit each cow.

    .....and I bet she'd have a bull calf every year:)


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  • #22
    pakalasa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,552 ✭✭✭pakalasa


    Funny but I have a charolais cow, no milk - she's had a heifer every year for 6 years now.
    I bought a Shorthorn at the time too with a view to breeding LM crosses from her. She had a bull every year. You just never know..........:rolleyes:


  • #23
    towzer2010
    Closed Accounts Posts: 533 ✭✭✭towzer2010


    I had a similar one with a shorthorn cow. She had four LM bulls in a row. Gave her a charolais this time and she has a heifer....
    But that is the big advantage for me with AI. You can pick and mix.


  • #24
    Dozer1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,194 ✭✭✭Dozer1


    Suppose its down to the type of cow you feel works for your system, I've kept a few charolais heifer calves from milky whitehead cows and am hoping they'll bring just enough milk with them


  • #25
    vanderbadger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,087 ✭✭✭vanderbadger


    kermit_the_dog wrote: »
    what about simental , quiet ( for continentals ) with plenty of milk , should cross well with charolais

    hmm have a few and im not a fan to be honest, ya they rear a good calf but they are huge, always have too much milk. messing all winter with one getting a second calf to suck her back teats caus she had too much milk, will be getting rid of the few i have i think


  • #26
    Tipp Man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,025 ✭✭✭Tipp Man


    kermit_the_dog wrote: »
    yes but holstiens way a lot more than jerseys yet their increased yield makes it worthwhile , same deal with larger beef breeds

    That is a very debatable statement

    Most dairy farmers are moving towards a smaller easier maintained cow with better solids - so away from pure holstein


  • #27
    johnpawl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 595 ✭✭✭johnpawl


    Angus4life wrote: »
    if its quite easy calving and hardy cattle the best job for u is angus cows and a weapon of a blue bull.. have 46 sucklers and gave 15 the blue bull last year and the calves they are producing are great never had to leave a hand on any cow and and have being putiing on muscle everyday since will be investing in a blue bull for all cows :p.. i agree wit the lads above hereford just dont make to in the ring :rolleyes:

    ya be very curious to see these calves myself!!! Any pics?


  • #28
    kermit_the_dog
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 159 ✭✭kermit_the_dog


    vanderbadger wrote: »
    hmm have a few and im not a fan to be honest, ya they rear a good calf but they are huge, always have too much milk. messing all winter with one getting a second calf to suck her back teats caus she had too much milk, will be getting rid of the few i have i think

    do you outwinter

    is your land very heavy

    surely it doesnt matter how big the cow is , you need a big cow to deliver a big calf , do you not ? , i doubt a simmental would eat 200 euro more of feed per year than an angus but her calf might well be worth that much more


  • #29
    kermit_the_dog
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 159 ✭✭kermit_the_dog


    Tipp Man wrote: »
    That is a very debatable statement

    Most dairy farmers are moving towards a smaller easier maintained cow with better solids - so away from pure holstein

    it wasnt a great comparison i admit , a dairy cow delivers the goods every day for ten months , a suckler cow gives you a calf and thats her rent for the year but with stocking rate limits and small herds by international standards who outwinter for the most part , do you not need to aim for as large a weanling as possible , i can see plenty of merit in using angus or hereford if you finish but most do not finish , meal is expensive and suckler areas tend to be away from cereal and maize regions so the weanling sales are a one shot deal


  • #30
    haybob
    Registered Users Posts: 347 ✭✭haybob


    Dozer1 wrote: »
    Suppose its down to the type of cow you feel works for your system, I've kept a few charolais heifer calves from milky whitehead cows and am hoping they'll bring just enough milk with them

    I got some great cows that way and uou can consider giving those cows a limousine bull I have some great cattle from them.

    I keep a nice few black whitehead cows and had done well crossing em with the charolais and limousine bulls,


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  • #31
    Bodacious
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,274 ✭✭✭Bodacious


    johnpawl wrote: »
    ya be very curious to see these calves myself!!! Any pics?

    Not putting down on the aa X BB as you may have large canadian AA cows but would the calves not be lacking in height?


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