LauraLynn Hospice

Mont · 27-09-2011 11:27pm

Listen, we all know that its a good project but OP is right. To get €5m of voluntary donations and build a project with capacity for 8 children is mismanagement of funds. Replace the word children with refugee and you see a totally different story.

Twee. · 27-09-2011 11:34pm

Mont wrote: »

Listen, we all know that its a good project but OP is right. To get €5m of voluntary donations and build a project with capacity for 8 children is mismanagement of funds. Replace the word children with refugee and you see a totally different story.

Did you bother to read the thread?

It's not for eight children to shack up in. It's for eight children plus their families, their families who have to deal with their child dying due to illness. It's for these kids to receive care and to enjoy the rest of their lives without being confined to a hospital ward. Home away from home, when home is not an option.

lastlaugh · 27-09-2011 11:35pm

The only thing that would concern me about the facility would be that the funds would mismanaged.

It's an emotive topic, and it seems that questioning if the costs involved are excessively high is taboo...

EGAR · 27-09-2011 11:45pm

Ahm, as far as I understand the money did not come from the taxpayer..? So why is it anyone's business on how much they are spending to ease the passage for dying children and their families..? 5 millions is not much for 70 kids per annum. Me thinks Ireland has more pressing issues!

cassid · 27-09-2011 11:52pm

I think its so important for families to stay together when there is a sick or terminal ill child. I really like the concept of the house and hope families who use it, will get some small comfort during very dark difficult times. Crumlin hospital have a ronald mc donald house that incorporates the same ethos and Temple street have a house outside the hospital grounds as well.

I do wonder about the €5 million costs and the charity have received millions from the HSE towards their ongoing costs. The staffing expenditure needs to be more transparent, if its primarily medical staff for the children, then its fully justified. If its the usual CEO's or HR manager salaries, when they the charity should be accountable to the use of the HSE money and the money people have kindly donated to the cause.

I just charities in Ireland are not transparent enough, the whole sector needs a good shake up.

Over 4 million in public money http://www.sunshinehome.ie/reports/annual_report_2009.pdf

DeVore · 27-09-2011 11:54pm

Because that money comes from donations which is a limited pool of cash. Them getting it, means unfortunately someone else doesnt. So, its not unreasonable to ensure that charities do NOT turn into personal empires with the top people making a personal fortune from them (like oh I dunno, the Irish Red Cross).

But in this specific case, it certainly doesnt seem so. 5m wont go far... at 70 patients thats about 75K each if my math is right.

A while back I broke my leg and as luck(!) would have it I had 9Million Canadian dollars of insurance. Curious, I looked at the costs of the insurance claim. My "bed" cost in excess of 10k a night. 30K for the two days while I was being worked on.

There is simply NOTHING like "medical" to rack up costs. 75K seems reasonable per kid.

DeV.

Owen · 28-09-2011 12:03am

I was part of a third party fundraising initiative for the LL Hospice 2 years ago that went on annually across the country. We raised a fair bit of money, but it didn't seem like remotely enough when you see the job they do.

People like the staff there, and the make a wish foundation are about as good as they come. Begrudging them the money the fundraise for is incredible. Anyone who does should volunteer there for a few days and see if they have the same opinion then.

lastlaugh · 28-09-2011 12:06am

EGAR wrote: »

Ahm, as far as I understand the money did not come from the taxpayer..? So why is it anyone's business on how much they are spending to ease the passage for dying children and their families..? 5 millions is not much for 70 kids per annum. Me thinks Ireland has more pressing issues!

Just because money doesn't come from the Taxpayer doesn't make it OK to throw it about unecessarily.

Indeed, for such a worthy cause, it's even more important that the funds they have are used as effectively as possible.

If I was a consultant in a position to help, I would gladly offer my services free of charge.

Cerocco · 28-09-2011 12:09am

My friends child was one of the children on the news report tonight. This hospice care will give his parents respite from his 24hr home care so they can give extra time to their other 2 healthy children for 3 days out of 7. Its not just an 8 bedded unit where 8 children will be cared for. Many children and their families will benefit from the amazing heart wrenching work these people do. As I have seen first hand how difficult it is to care for an extremely sick child at home, i've sat up nights with my friend when her child was so ill it was honestly heartbreaking. I applaud the people who raised the funds to set up this valuable resorce for the children and their families.

El Weirdo · 28-09-2011 12:11am

If people are coming on here and stating that there has been mismanagement of funds, I'd like them to provide links or figures to show what they think a project like this should cost. There wasn't even a link in the OP, ffs.

I'm all for transparency in charities' funding, btw. I just think that accusations without any evidence to back them up aren't doing anyone any favours.

EGAR · 28-09-2011 12:14am

lastlaugh wrote: »

If I was a consultant in a position to help, I would gladly offer my services free of charge.

And since you are not your point is mute. If *if's* and *when's* comes to mind.

Zaph · 28-09-2011 12:17am

Mont wrote: »

Listen, we all know that its a good project but OP is right. To get €5m of voluntary donations and build a project with capacity for 8 children is mismanagement of funds. Replace the word children with refugee and you see a totally different story.

I sincerely hope that you never find yourself in a position where you need avail of its services. If that day ever came then come back here and tell us that they are mismanaging the funds they have.

lastlaugh · 28-09-2011 12:20am

EGAR wrote: »

And since you are not your point is mute. If *if's* and *when's* comes to mind.

My point is that if I was in a position to help, I would.

And my point is not 'mute', in fact, it's not even moot.

Good night.

Zen65 · 28-09-2011 12:21am

Mont wrote: »

To get €5m of voluntary donations and build a project with capacity for 8 children is mismanagement of funds.

Once in Ireland we had a society noted for its friendliness and caring, for its genuine concern for our fellow citizens.

Somewhere along the path, we became "rich" and our society lost its sense of purpose, eventually the whole concept of society was replaced by an economy. People were happy to go on sun holidays four times a year, and to spend a fortune on events such as Christenings, Debs dances, etc as a way of demonstrating their wealth.

We know now that those riches, and that economic boom were largely just falsehood. It amounted to little more than a massive and unsustainable debt being accumulated by a number of our citizens. The debt was encouraged by a plethora of "experts" who swore they knew how our money should be spent. Their ignorant advice and governance destroyed our economy and ruined the lives of so many people.

Despite that, some generous people worked tirelessly and scraped together some €5M to build this hospice, driven by the courage of parents who lost two daughters in a manner that would have broken the spirit of some of the strongest entrepreneurs in the country. That hospice was funded by private donations because the state, at its time of greatest wealth, did not set aside monies to provide for the weakest and most vulnerable of its citizens. We the tax-paying citizens did not demand that the monies be made available from the exchequer, because we were happy with our tax cuts, and as such we share in the shame of having put ourselves first.

I am simply astounded then, that somebody would describe the establishment of this Hospice as mismanagement of funds. I know this is the AH forum, but we should not take that to be a licence to speak mindless and hurtful nonsense. The LauraLynn Hospice should be seen as being the very epitome of what the Ireland should have become during the boom; a caring society, not simply a shallow affluent economy that pandered to the greediest of the greedy. I for one am grateful to those who donated, to those who collected, and those who work now in that place. I have no doubt that the monies are well spent, and those who work there provide comfort and dignity beyond the value of some euros to the families who have the misfortune to need its services.

This hospice should be respected as a no-bash zone. Now, let's close this thread and go bash something that is worthy of bashing.

Z

EGAR · 28-09-2011 12:28am

lastlaugh wrote: »

My point is that if I was in a position to help, I would.

And my point is not 'mute', in fact, it's not even moot.

Good night.

Ah yes, and there is the magic word again: *IF* and since you are not AGAIN *if if's and when's*. As for the rest: anal (I hope I spelled that right

).

I am sure my point about IF'S was neither mute nor moot. Sleep tight, may lethal illnesses never affect your children.

Logical Fallacy · 28-09-2011 12:29am

BrianBoru00 wrote: »

Can any one explain to me how the hell this place cost 5 million????
Theres only 8 beds in it.

Does that money cover staff costs as well? because even though I m not an expert in contruction or medicine- Im pretty sure I could have built an 8 bedroom unit for an awful lot less than that..

I know the 5 million is not about the construction of the hospice itself but i might as well hit you with some knowledge.

Building a medical building is a detailed and costly project. It's not a case of retrofitting a normal building...you need to take into account all kinds of things.

To give just one example for each bed you need to be able to provide medical gases...oxygen and the like. To carry these gasses you need and incredible standard of construction in the pipe work and the safety systems. They need back ups and the back ups need back ups. A system failure would literally mean death. Off the top of my head i can't quite remember but i seem to recall a need for at least 5 different gases in a medical facility.

The safety standards and minimal requirements for a building like that are, quite rightly, incredibly high....so yes, the building itself would have been very costly to build.

lastlaugh · 28-09-2011 12:34am

EGAR wrote: »

Ah yes, and there is the magic word again: *IF* and since you are not AGAIN *if if's and when's*. As for the rest: anal (I hope I spelled that right ).

What exactly is your problem with what I've posted so far?

EGAR wrote: »

I am sure my point about IF'S was neither mute nor moot. Sleep tight, may lethal illnesses never affect your children.

WTF? I can't say I really like the tone of that.

EGAR · 28-09-2011 12:37am

lastlaugh wrote: »

WTF? I can't say I really like the tone of that.

You said *Good night* - I merely wished you the same and expressed a wish that your children will never need the service of the LauraLynn Hospice.

Paranoid much..?

lastlaugh · 28-09-2011 12:40am

EGAR wrote: »

You said *Good night* - I merely wished you the same and expressed a wish that your children will never need the service of the LauraLynn Hospice.

Paranoid much..?

Not Paranoid, you just give me the creeps.

EGAR · 28-09-2011 12:42am

lastlaugh wrote: »

Not Paranoid, you just give me the creeps.

I aim to please

.

BrianBoru00 · 28-09-2011 12:45am

I know the 5 million is not about the construction of the hospice itself but i might as well hit you with some knowledge.

Building a medical building is a detailed and costly project. It's not a case of retrofitting a normal building...you need to take into account all kinds of things.

To give just one example for each bed you need to be able to provide medical gases...oxygen and the like. To carry these gasses you need and incredible standard of construction in the pipe work and the safety systems. They need back ups and the back ups need back ups. A system failure would literally mean death. Off the top of my head i can't quite remember but i seem to recall a need for at least 5 different gases in a medical facility.

The safety standards and minimal requirements for a building like that are, quite rightly, incredibly high....so yes, the building itself would have been very costly to build.

Firstly , to a previous poster, I WAS NOT bad mouthing the Sunshine home OR the people behind it.
My question was simply, How it costs 5 million?

Neither was I suggesting putting them into a ghost estate. But an 8 bedroom unit seems very small for that kind of price.
I know of another project locally, where the original cost was £250 000 , about 12 years ago. In essence it was just a house - and there was no specialist equipment or anything. At the same time, a similar house could have been purchased for approx £80 000.

The sunshinehouse / lauralynn project costs 5 million.

LogicalFalacy's reply was, at least an attempt at answer my original question. And I assume that the 5 million doesn t cover the 24 hour costs - as they will be on an ongoing basis, hopefully.

I m not having a go at the people behind it, and as LogicalFalacy said, medical equipment is expensive - but 5 million?
I m just curious as to where the money was spent. like was 500 000 spent on the building and 1 million on the apartments / landscaping and 3.5 million on 10 or 11 actual beds , linen, medical equipment???
And in that budget for the medical equipment , how much was spent on the beds etc.

28-09-2011 12:52am

OP there are so much worse things for you to give out about than a privately funded hospice for kids. I thank my lucky stars I've never had to avail of such a service but if I ever had to, you can be damn sure cost will be way way at the back of my mind.

DeVore · 28-09-2011 1:56am

Its important that questions are asked about charities... its not good enough as a society to simply say "its a kids charity, we cant ask questions about where the money goes for fear of being branded child-haters".

I run SSF every year and I'm gobsmacked that people never seem to check up on me. Every single penny goes to the charities, I dont even take taxi fare and Amp and the others wont take petrol money from me.

But I would never have a problem with showing anyone the accounts. I wouldnt take offence either.

I know the LL Foundation and its great, I've supported them personally and with SSF money and they need prove nothing to me.

But its a dangerous road to go down to say kids charities cant be questioned because there is a limit to people's generosity and its all from the same pool that its taken under the auspicies of caring for kids.

The question should be asked ... and in this instance the answer is "no, its all good".

DeV.

Morag · 28-09-2011 2:08am

lastlaugh if you really want to know a complete breakdown of how the money was spent then contact them and ask. I doubt anyone here can tell you.

BrianBoru00 · 28-09-2011 11:26am

Deleted User wrote: »

OP there are so much worse things for you to give out about than a privately funded hospice for kids. I thank my lucky stars I've never had to avail of such a service but if I ever had to, you can be damn sure cost will be way way at the back of my mind.

Did you read my post? At no stage did I give out about a privately funded hospice for kids you idiot.

Lollipops23 · 28-09-2011 11:30am

In 1992 I was in ICU in temple street with a severe asthma attack- I had a quarter of a million POUNDS' worth of equipment either hooked up to me or on standby (inc respirator should I worsen).
Translate to Euros and allow for inflation. Now include equipment for kids far worse off than I was. Now multiply by 8.

That's how it costs 5Million. Bargain if you ask me.

lastlaugh · 28-09-2011 11:36am

Lollipops23 wrote: »

In 1992 I was in ICU in temple street with a severe asthma attack- I had a quarter of a million POUNDS' worth of equipment either hooked up to me or on standby (inc respirator should I worsen).
Translate to Euros and allow for inflation. Now include equipment for kids far worse off than I was. Now multiply by 8.

That's how it costs 5Million. Bargain if you ask me.

BUT, according to an earlier post, the costs for 2007 were broken down as follows.

The cost of running the service in 2007 amounted to €5,290,125 of which €3,987,339 represented staff
costs. Non-pay expenses totaling €1,302,786 were incurred chiefly in the areas of capital maintenance, medical equipment, IT investments, recruitment and overhead costs. In 2007, the service had a total income
of €4,931,810.

BuzzFish · 28-09-2011 11:46am

Folks,

I was on site at the hospice on Monday preparing for the opening and I spoke with one of the ladies on the board of directors for the hospice. This building is far more than 8 beds. Each room is designed to not look like the inside of a hospital, using special lifts in the rooms and equipment that can be kept out of sight as much as possible to reduce the distress on the patient and their families.
The bathrooms have special baths with soothing lighting&sound and massage to again help the children relax. Remember, amounst a long list of other challenges, many of these children suffer continuous spasms and pain. They may be blind and/or deaf. For them to even communicate as how they feel can be near impossible.

This is not a place any of us want to ever use, but to be so ignorant as to say all a dying child needs is one bed undermines the work done to get this place off the ground. It undermines the work done by staff, the hours donated by volunteers every day (before, during and post completion) and the massive effort that went into the fundraising.

Some of the posters on here wouldn't go astray by spending a few hours themselves, looking at how tough life can be when you need to rely on places like this.

FortyPlusHubby · 28-09-2011 12:03pm

I really agree with Buzzfish and Zen on this. I think this thread is in bad taste, even for AH. I'd hate any parent who has a child in the Hospice to see people suggesting this facility is a waste of money, because it certainly is not.

40pH

lastlaugh · 28-09-2011 12:05pm

FortyPlusHubby wrote: »

I really agree with Buzzfish and Zen on this. I think this thread is in bad taste, even for AH. I'd hate any parent who has a child in the Hospice to see people suggesting this facility is a waste of money, because it certainly is not.

40pH

I agree. There is something not right about this thread and is far too sensitive a subject to be discussing here.

Can we get this one closed please?

LauraLynn Hospice

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