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Cheapest Club Membership in Ireland

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Comments

  • #92
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,007 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    ajcurry123 wrote: »
    I think you missed the "stick out tongue" and "roll eyes (sarcastic)" face
    But to answer your question, no I don't see any correlation between the cost of golf and the likelihood of cheating.
    I saw them al right, I just didnt (and still dont!) understand the point you are making... :o
    ajcurry123 wrote: »
    Do you really not see any connection?
    Please see below
    My argument has nothing to do with the cost of membership and everything to do with the type of membership (i.e. distance) and the lack of any requirement to play golf in the place that is purporting to be managing the relationship between your golfing ability and your handicap.

    I could care less about the money involved tbh.


  • #93
    PARlance
    Registered Users Posts: 21,092 ✭✭✭✭PARlance


    GreeBo wrote: »
    I saw them al right, I just didnt (and still dont!) understand the point you are making... :o


    My argument has nothing to do with the cost of membership and everything to do with the type of membership (i.e. distance) and the lack of any requirement to play golf in the place that is purporting to be managing the relationship between your golfing ability and your handicap.

    I could care less about the money involved tbh.

    So...we're on a thread about cheap membership!
    Surely your argument has something to do with the cost of membership?

    Does your club require members to play a set amount of competitions at the club each year?
    If so, how many?
    If not, how is this different from these "type of membership (i.e. distance) and the lack of any requirement to play golf in the place that is purporting to be managing the relationship between your golfing ability and your handicap." ?


  • #94
    downthemiddle
    Registered Users Posts: 2,859 ✭✭✭downthemiddle


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Yes, your clubs handicap secretary (well chances are its the handicap software thats prompting him most of the time but...) would/should be aware of any significant scores you have had throughout the year, not only in singles competitions and make adjustments accordingly.


    Perhaps not, but making it trivial for someone by not requiring them to ever set foot in the door of a club and giving them GUI handicaps via post doesnt seem that great an idea to me. Its hardly going to improve matters.






    .

    Strange as this may seem to you the same handicap software applies to distance members and pay and play members as it does to members of Grange Golf Club. Therefore this argument is redundant.

    There is no golf club I'm aware of who will post you out a handicap. Handicaps can only be allocated when you return three cards in the club where you are a member. I think you will find that this is the same process that applies in your club.

    We offered a very successful pay and play membership this year. Our biggest issue was "established" clubs not forwarding scores and failing to meet their obligations to report results of team events. Incidentially we did discipline a member for failing to report his performances which tends to suggest our handicap committee were able to monitor handicaps as required.


  • #95
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,007 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    downthemiddle wrote: »
    Strange as this may seem to you the same handicap software applies to distance members and pay and play members as it does to members of Grange Golf Club. Therefore this argument is redundant.

    Im not sure why you are bringing Grange into this argument, but fire ahead.
    Perhaps you would be so kind as to tell us your club, or is to be assumed it is Scarke?

    Also, which argument is redundant? There is no requirement on a club to use any handicap software as far as I am aware, do you have evidence to the contrary?
    downthemiddle wrote: »
    There is no golf club I'm aware of who will post you out a handicap. Handicaps can only be allocated when you return three cards in the club where you are a member. I think you will find that this is the same process that applies in your club.
    3 cards (well technically 54 holes) are for obtaining an initial handicap or when your handicap has been lost/suspended; what about when your handicap is transferred from a previous club?

    i.e. you designate a new home club?
    downthemiddle wrote: »
    We offered a very successful pay and play membership this year. Our biggest issue was "established" clubs not forwarding scores and failing to meet their obligations to report results of team events. Incidentially we did discipline a member for failing to report his performances which tends to suggest our handicap committee were able to monitor handicaps as required.
    It is the players responsibility alone to report away scores (team events or otherwise), not the away clubs.


  • #96
    downthemiddle
    Registered Users Posts: 2,859 ✭✭✭downthemiddle


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Im not sure why you are bringing Grange into this argument, but fire ahead.
    Perhaps you would be so kind as to tell us your club, or is to be assumed it is Scarke?

    Also, which argument is redundant? There is no requirement on a club to use any handicap software as far as I am aware, do you have evidence to the contrary?


    3 cards (well technically 54 holes) are for obtaining an initial handicap or when your handicap has been lost/suspended; what about when your handicap is transferred from a previous club?

    i.e. you designate a new home club?


    It is the players responsibility alone to report away scores (team events or otherwise), not the away clubs.
    Go away , read the CONGU book, and come back when you actually know what you are talking about.


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  • #97
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,007 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    downthemiddle wrote: »
    Go away , read the CONGU book, and come back when you actually know what you are talking about.

    Can you point out something that I said that was incorrect?


  • #98
    downthemiddle
    Registered Users Posts: 2,859 ✭✭✭downthemiddle


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Can you point out something that I said that was incorrect?
    Yes, all clubs are required to report the results of all teams events to the GUI. Would you like me to continue or will you come back when you are better informed?


  • #99
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,007 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    downthemiddle wrote: »
    Yes, all clubs are required to report the results of all teams events to the GUI. Would you like me to continue or will you come back when you are better informed?

    Where is that specified?
    Please continue.


  • #100
    onlyfinewine
    Registered Users Posts: 433 ✭✭onlyfinewine


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Can you point out something that I said that was incorrect?

    Yes, I have already done so, please re-read the posts.

    But I have had enough of your cockamamie opinions on this thread, so I will pass.

    By the way does anyone else get the impression that it's a Greebo versus the rest theme?


  • #101
    IanPoulter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 92 ✭✭IanPoulter


    onlyfinewine wrote: »
    Yes, I have already done so, please re-read the posts.

    But I have had enough of your cockamamie opinions on this thread, so I will pass.

    By the way does anyone else get the impression that it's a Greebo versus the rest theme?

    Much too often I'm afraid


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  • #102
    ernieprice
    Registered Users Posts: 133 ✭✭ernieprice


    downthemiddle wrote: »
    Yes, all clubs are required to report the results of all teams events to the GUI. Would you like me to continue or will you come back when you are better informed?

    Both the player and club MUST report the scores.
    See CONGU book page 19 (section 8.10 - Qualifying Scores and 8.12 - In Ireland playersand clubs must report to home clubs (a) All Qualifying Scores with revelent CSS and (b) All Non Qualifying scores from team and society golf.
    So in essence both Greenbo and downthemiddle are correct


  • #103
    alxmorgan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,809 ✭✭✭alxmorgan


    ernieprice wrote: »
    Both the player and club MUST report the scores.
    See CONGU book page 19 (section 8.10 - Qualifying Scores and 8.12 - In Ireland playersand clubs must report to home clubs (a) All Qualifying Scores with revelent CSS and (b) All Non Qualifying scores from team and society golf.
    So in essence both Greenbo and downthemiddle are correct

    Someone should create an account for this Greenbo.
    I imagine him as:

    1) A member of Scarke even though he has no intention of ever setting foot there
    2) Takes out the driver on every hole
    3) Always plays shots in comps he can't regularly hit in practice
    4) Has a very tenuous grip on the rules

    :D


  • #104
    downthemiddle
    Registered Users Posts: 2,859 ✭✭✭downthemiddle


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Where is that specified?
    Please continue.
    In the CONGU handbook, google is your friend.
    I wonder how you think clubs that might not have handicap software upload the required information to Golfnet?
    You have made a number of broad sweeping statements on this thread which cannot be backed up by facts. Not everybody is in the fortunate position to be able to fork out 20,000 euro in hello money. Not every club can fall back on money they received from land deals etc.
    The golf market has changed and changed dramatically in the last few years. Just because you don't agree with the business plans some clubs have adopted does not mean that you are entitled to denigrate these clubs when you patently do not know what you are talking about.
    This board doesn't need Conno when there is a mod willing to step up to the mark.


  • #105
    PARlance
    Registered Users Posts: 21,092 ✭✭✭✭PARlance


    gggg wrote: »
    Cheapest membership has to be Scarke? 99 quid for the year. I live in Louth and will be joining in 2013. You dont even need to walk through the gates of Scarke once throughout the year to maintain your official GUI handicap - just play opens all over the shop. Happy days.
    link_2007 wrote: »
    michael-jackson-eating-popcorn.gif

    explosion_thumb.jpg


  • #106
    charlieIRL
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,190 Mod ✭✭✭✭charlieIRL


    downthemiddle wrote: »
    This board doesn't need Conno when there is a mod willing to step up to the mark.


    Comments like this are not welcome here.

    That user you referred to was a constant troll and tried his best to wind everyone up - like what a lot of posters are doing here at the moment.


  • #107
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,007 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    downthemiddle wrote: »
    In the CONGU handbook, google is your friend.
    Can you tell me where in the handbook?
    Actually nevermind, ernieprice did.
    downthemiddle wrote: »
    I wonder how you think clubs that might not have handicap software upload the required information to Golfnet?
    Again, can you show me this requirement as all I can see is a mention to those clubs who chose to use the handicap software.

    downthemiddle wrote: »
    You have made a number of broad sweeping statements on this thread which cannot be backed up by facts. Not everybody is in the fortunate position to be able to fork out 20,000 euro in hello money. Not every club can fall back on money they received from land deals etc.
    Such as?
    You seem to have a real bee in your bonnet about Grange, any particular reason why?
    downthemiddle wrote: »
    The golf market has changed and changed dramatically in the last few years. Just because you don't agree with the business plans some clubs have adopted does not mean that you are entitled to denigrate these clubs when you patently do not know what you are talking about.
    I have no issue with the plan, my issue is with the freedom this allows people to manage their handicaps.
    downthemiddle wrote: »
    This board doesn't need Conno when there is a mod willing to step up to the mark.
    Questioning a moderators actions on thread are against the forum charter.

    No more warnings.


  • #108
    onlyfinewine
    Registered Users Posts: 433 ✭✭onlyfinewine


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by downthemiddle View Post
    The golf market has changed and changed dramatically in the last few years. Just because you don't agree with the business plans some clubs have adopted does not mean that you are entitled to denigrate these clubs when you patently do not know what you are talking about.
    Quote by Greebo
    I have no issue with the plan, my issue is with the freedom this allows people to manage their handicaps.

    OK Assuming you have no issue, how can people with distance memberships "manage" their handicaps in a different way than non-distance memberships?

    What is the basis of your theory?


  • #109
    downthemiddle
    Registered Users Posts: 2,859 ✭✭✭downthemiddle


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Can you tell me where in the handbook?
    Actually nevermind, ernieprice did.

    Again, can you show me this requirement as all I can see is a mention to those clubs who chose to use the handicap software.



    Such as?
    You seem to have a real bee in your bonnet about Grange, any particular reason why?


    I have no issue with the plan, my issue is with the freedom this allows people to manage their handicaps.


    Questioning a moderators actions on thread are against the forum charter.

    No more warnings.
    Clause 6 of the CONGU handbook covers the responsibilities of an affiliated club. Clause 6.12 states that an affiliated club "must provide provide the Union with such information as the Union requires to maintain a National Handicap Database". I'm not aware how a club would do this without the appropriate software.
    However I am interested in why you think a club that offers distance or associate membership is less likely to meet this requirement? What is the basis for your theory?


    I have no bee in my bonnet about Grange. I am a frequent visitor there and have always enjoyed my visits there. My issue is with the conclusions you jump to in your posts.

    People do not have freedom to manage their handicaps and I fail to see how you can logically draw this conclusion. Handicaps are managed in ALL clubs by handicap committees if clubs are meeting their responsibilities.

    Far be it from me to question your abilities as a mod and consider my wrist slapped in that regard. However I do reserve the right to question your qualities as a poster and you ill informed ramblings on this and other threads have led me to do so.


  • #110
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,007 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    downthemiddle wrote: »
    Clause 6 of the CONGU handbook covers the responsibilities of an affiliated club. Clause 6.12 states that an affiliated club "must provide provide the Union with such information as the Union requires to maintain a National Handicap Database". I'm not aware how a club would do this without the appropriate software.

    A club could submit them to the GUI without having any handicap software, the club would then manually look after handicaps.
    Per 6.5
    Ensure that, where handicaps are calculated and maintained by computer, the software used, is
    provided by an Independent Software Vendor currently licensed by CONGU®.
    downthemiddle wrote: »
    However I am interested in why you think a club that offers distance or associate membership is less likely to meet this requirement? What is the basis for your theory?
    My concern is that if you never play golf in your "home" club then the accuracy of your handicap entirely depends on away scores being reported.
    There is also no chance for any one to observe you play.

    downthemiddle wrote: »
    People do not have freedom to manage their handicaps and I fail to see how you can logically draw this conclusion. Handicaps are managed in ALL clubs by handicap committees if clubs are meeting their responsibilities.

    I'm not saying its inevitable, I just think not having any requirements to play golf in your home club makes it easier for people to manage handicaps.
    downthemiddle wrote: »
    However I do reserve the right to question your qualities as a poster and you ill informed ramblings on this and other threads have led me to do so.
    I believe I'm just as entitled to an opinion as you or indeed any other poster is; Im also entitled to defend that opinion.

    If you'd prefer a forum where everyone agrees and has the same opinion on everything then one of us is in the wrong forum...


  • #111
    onlyfinewine
    Registered Users Posts: 433 ✭✭onlyfinewine


    GreeBo;


    My concern is that if you never play golf in your "home" club then the accuracy of your handicap entirely depends on away scores being reported.
    There is also no chance for any one to observe you play.

    It is fairly obvious that the accuracy of your handicap entirely depends on your scores being reported whether or not they are home or away scores. Usually when your marker signs your card it is an acknowledgement that he has observed and by signing confirms the score you have taken. So we can eliminate your "concern" on that basis.


    I'm not saying its inevitable, I just think not having any requirements to play golf in your home club makes it easier for people to manage handicaps.

    So if the club had a requirement for you to play a few rounds in your home club it would be OK? and by inference people would find it harder to manage handicaps? This is obviously a nonsense and does not stack up. People who choose distance membership usually do so for value reasons and it is not the norm to play most of their golf in that club.
    I believe I'm just as entitled to an opinion as you or indeed any other poster is; Im also entitled to defend that opinion.

    Of course, this is your right, but confusion that an opinion however badly formed, and pretense that the opinion is a fact, does not make it so.

    Quote:
    Quote by Greebo
    I have no issue with the (business) plan, my issue is with the freedom this allows people to manage their handicaps.

    You still have not indicated why or how this is so! In fact it is a scurrilous allegation entirely without foundation and directly opposite to the spirit of the game. So I suggest that either you back it up or withdraw it.


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  • #112
    ernieprice
    Registered Users Posts: 133 ✭✭ernieprice


    Very few clubs don't have at least 1 member who attempts to manage his handicap (for whatever reason). If you recall in another thread there were team managers warning players not to loose shots. This is managing a handicap. At the recent Leinster Golf ADM they showed cuts under the ESR system and on average most clubs cut 5/8 players but 1 club had to cut 45 players. It is getting more difficult to manage handicaps unless a player is going to keep paying for .1's and win nothing. As for distant membership I can see the pros and cons. I currently play off a single figure handicap and in the next year will be moving abroad, it is an option for me to either take overseas membership or distance membership in order to maintain a handicap. I would like to play in opens (qualifying) whenever I return for holidays. Needs must and I would definitely not be managing my handicap.


  • #113
    charlieIRL
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,190 Mod ✭✭✭✭charlieIRL


    It is fairly obvious that the accuracy of your handicap entirely depends on your scores being reported whether or not they are home or away scores. Usually when your marker signs your card it is an acknowledgement that he has observed and by signing confirms the score you have taken. So we can eliminate your "concern" on that basis.

    but what if the player doesn't return that score to his "home" club? it doesn't make a bit of a difference who marked it if its not returned!!


  • #114
    ernieprice
    Registered Users Posts: 133 ✭✭ernieprice


    charlieIRL wrote: »
    but what if the player doesn't return that score to his "home" club? it doesn't make a bit of a difference who marked it if its not returned!!

    By right both the player and away club are to return/report scores but this does not always happen. During the year I had a score of 43pts away. I reported it to my club as I knew I would have a reduction and also an ESR reduction. My handicap secretary entered the score on golfnet and it took me 7 phone call to this club asking why my score was not processed. After 3 weeks it arrived when I said I was going to ring the Leinster branch to see if there was a software problem. So in support oy your point if I had stayed mum then I would have stayed at 8 instead of 6 and could have built my handicap up to 10 before season end.


  • #115
    onlyfinewine
    Registered Users Posts: 433 ✭✭onlyfinewine


    charlieIRL wrote: »
    but what if the player doesn't return that score to his "home" club? it doesn't make a bit of a difference who marked it if its not returned!!

    I have not seen any open competitions that have not had the option to enter your score into a computer at the end of the round. As far as I know these scores are then sent to the GUI and from there are sent to your home club. The information is not streamed into distance/non-distance categories so there is no advantage/disadvantage in being in either category. You only have one Congu handicap system in Ireland.

    In relation to cheating by not entering your score or returning your card, again it makes no difference which category of membership you hold, cheating is cheating no matter where or how it is done.


  • #116
    ernieprice
    Registered Users Posts: 133 ✭✭ernieprice


    onlyfinewine wrote: »
    I have not seen any open competitions that have not had the option to enter your score into a computer at the end of the round. As far as I know these scores are then sent to the GUI and from there are sent to your home club. The information is not streamed into distance/non-distance categories so there is no advantage/disadvantage in being in either category. You only have one Congu handicap system in Ireland.

    In relation to cheating by not entering your score or returning your card, again it makes no difference which category of membership you hold, cheating is cheating no matter where or how it is done.

    I entered my score on the computer and it took all these calls to have it sent. The person closing the competition has to send the information to Golfnet. In our club it has to be done by selecting the Internet button on the software and it then sends the required information.


  • #117
    onlyfinewine
    Registered Users Posts: 433 ✭✭onlyfinewine


    ernieprice wrote: »
    I entered my score on the computer and it took all these calls to have it sent. The person closing the competition has to send the information to Golfnet. In our club it has to be done by selecting the Internet button on the software and it then sends the required information.

    You are to be applauded for your persistence in this case. Usually there is not a problem of which I am aware with scores being transferred to their home club.

    I wonder if there are any other forum members with experiences in this regard?


  • #118
    jmorrisey
    Registered Users Posts: 696 ✭✭✭jmorrisey


    onlyfinewine wrote: »
    You are to be applauded for your persistence in this case. Usually there is not a problem of which I am aware with scores being transferred to their home club.

    I wonder if there are any other forum members with experiences in this regard?


    I dont play much at all in recent years and live a long way from my home club but kept a distance membership with my club so I could keep a handicap and play in open singles from time to time (played bout 12 times last year and bout 10 times this year). I havent been able to play to my handicap for a good while but have noticed that a good few really poor scores i had over the last 2 years have not been recorded on golfnet and so i have not received any .1s for same. I havent chased it up as i'm not too bothered to be honest but i didnt realise i was required to send my scores back to my home club. I thought the away club updated the system automatically


  • #119
    ernieprice
    Registered Users Posts: 133 ✭✭ernieprice


    onlyfinewine wrote: »
    You are to be applauded for your persistence in this case. Usually there is not a problem of which I am aware with scores being transferred to their home club.

    I wonder if there are any other forum members with experiences in this regard?


    I was Assistant Competition Secretary and Assistant Handicap Secretary in our club at the time so I was aware how the system should work and I decided to keep after it. I was probably being a little paranoid and thought that if the club in question did not update golfnet then their own players could not get cut either.


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