[monument]

Originally Posted by tomasrojo

Of course, and it's important to think for yourself. However, he actually says to slow down and say "excuse me" to pedestrians. The shouting is for traffic, and he says it's better not to, and to concentrate on evasive action instead.

"Resentment" is a fair description of the response I got when I used to use a bell (I accept, naturally, that other people's experiences might be completely different) , to which I would add "ridicule" as a common response.

I don't think he means shouting is 'for traffic' alone, but "in traffic". Most of everything he writes seems very thought out, and just before that he was talking about what to do "In quiet surrounding".

A bell isn't just a way to say 'excuse me', it's a tool to warn people in advance. People that are not necessarily in your way but to warn those who may step / cycle / drive out into your way. It's 'look at me' or 'please don't step out on to the road' -- and to be saying those things in the city centre at least, you'd nearly be shouting them. A bell, I find is far more polite that shouting.

You can get both resentment and ridicule without a bell and by using the most polite manner by trying to say excuse me on cycle tracks (not shared used paths) in the Phoenix Park and elsewhere. The resentment and ridicule has little to do with use of a bell and a lot to do with the idea 'why should I give way to a bicycle! A cyclist on bicycle!' -- Whether that's on a cycle track in a park or jaywalking at a crossing in the city centre, and the idea can stem from anything from bicycles are just toys to cyclists are unimportant or a bicycle can't hurt me.

It's worth saying the bells on my bikes, to different degrees, do work on traffic as well (a Dublin Bike bell makes hardly any noise compared to them). Also that's not to say I would fully rely on them to warn traffic but they are just one of many tools. And before anybody says it's safer just to stop, I'm well able to break and ring a bell at the same time.

[tomasrojo]

I still read his advice as: slow down and say "excuse me" to pedestrians, try to avoid shouting in favour of evasive action, though shouting can be effective in traffic in certain circumstances.

But, in any case, this exegesis is not necessary; this could be definitively settled by emailing John Franklin, who is quite an approachable man. But I don't think either of us feel strongly enough about this to carry it that far!

(I could get my recent copy of Cyclecraft back and see whether his text has changed much. That quote is from the 1988 edition, a copy of which I found in a second-hand bookstore.)

[monument]

He does not have much time from them one way or another -- "A bell should never be regarded as a safety aid".

He also talks about them as if you can't have both hands on your brakes and one thumb also on the bell. I would agree with him if it was imposable to use brakes and thumbs at one, but it is easy.

As for his comment "In traffic, a bell is useless" -- he's plan wrong.

[tomasrojo]

Originally Posted by monument

He does not have much time from them one way or another -- "A bell should never be regarded as a safety aid".

But he doesn't say that, either verbatim, as the inverted commas imply, or indirectly. Unless you're quoting from the recent edition?

He says in traffic a bell is more of a liability than a safety aid. He might be wrong in saying that, but that's not the same as saying it should never be regarded as a safety aid: in fact, he outlines when he does think it's useful as a safety aid.

Again, perhaps you're quoting a more recent edition when he does literally say that.

Originally Posted by monument

As for his comment "In traffic, a bell is useless" -- he's plan wrong.

Fair enough. I found a bell useless in traffic myself, but I accept it probably wasn't a very loud bell.

[rp]

Originally Posted by tomasrojo

I found a bell useless in traffic myself, but I accept it probably wasn't a very loud bell.

yeah, you'd want a very loud bell to be heard in traffic.

[monument]

I'm quoting from a more recent edition.

[tomasrojo]

It seemed unlike you to be cavalier with a quotation mark!

[Cuddlesworth]

I've had people do the same **** to me on a motorbike, I've had 4x4's do the same aggressive crap to me when in the car and I've had trucks do the same stupid motions when in a van.

Its a very much a male drivers hang-up, showing you they are in a position of power. Gardai should have pursued the matter because that type of behaviour will continue without a serious nipping in the bud.