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The Bike Scheme thread

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  • 03-11-2011 12:28pm
    #1
    what_traffic
    Registered Users Posts: 4,868 ✭✭✭


    FYI
    http://www.nationaltransport.ie/citybikes.html

    The Galway meeting is taking place:
    Tuesday, November 15 10.30am – 1.30pm Galway Siobhan McKenna Theatre, Arts Millennium Building, NUI Galway, University Road, Galway
    Bike Schemes in Regional Cities

    Introducing Public Bike Schemes in Regional Cities

    Alan Kelly TD, Minister for Public and Commuter Transport is holding a series of symposiums to explore the potential for delivering effective public bikes schemes – similar to the internationally acclaimed and successful “dublinbikes” scheme – in the cities of Cork, Galway, Limerick and Waterford.
    The purpose of each symposium will be to inform and involve local stakeholders, communicating the issues involved, facilitating debate and providing a defined channel which interested parties can avail of to discuss engagement with the scheme publicly or in commercial confidence.

    These symposiums are taking place as follows:
    • Monday, November 7 10.30am – 1.30pm Cork The Millennium Hall, City Hall, Anglesea St, Cork
    • Wednesday, November 9 10.30am – 1.30pm Waterford The Large Room, City Hall, The Mall, Waterford
    • Monday, November 14 10.30am – 1.30pm Limerick Limerick City Gallery of Art, Carnegie Building, Pery Square, Limerick
    • Tuesday, November 15 10.30am – 1.30pm Galway Siobhan McKenna Theatre, Arts Millennium Building, NUI Galway, University Road, Galway
    On the Minister’s request, the National Transport Authority commissioned analyses of the feasibility of such schemes, looking at the potential scope and of schemes in each city (technical report) and funding, cost and revenue analysis and options (commercial report). These are published here, and will underpin and inform the symposium discussions.
    Reports:
    Summary of Commercial Report
    Summary of Technical Report
    Commercial Report
    Technical Report
    If you are interested in attending a symposium, please let us know: bikeschemes@nationaltransport.ie
    If you have any comments to make on the proposals contained in the reports, please let us know, before November 20th: bikeschemes@nationaltransport.ie
    Tagged:


«134567…30

Comments

  • Options
    #2
    eire.man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 232 ✭✭eire.man


    Galway city is so small I fail to see the advantage of the scheme coming here!!

    also the scum in this town will see to the bikes being wrecked regularly!!


  • Options
    #3
    HardyEustace
    Registered Users Posts: 1,462 ✭✭✭HardyEustace


    While it would be great to see this scheme coming to Galway, I think it will only further agravate the problem of people cycling on pavements.

    The amount of idiots who think it's perfectly acceptable to cycle along pavements and the prom is astounding.


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    #4
    eire.man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 232 ✭✭eire.man


    HardyEustace wrote: »
    While it would be great to see this scheme coming to Galway, I think it will only further agravate the problem of people cycling on pavements.

    The amount of idiots who think it's perfectly acceptable to cycle along pavements and the prom is astounding.

    if Ihad both the safe roads to cycle on and good drivers to avoid me I would gladly complete my full journeys on the road

    We are not Holland with decent cycle lanes!!


  • Options
    #5
    Robbo
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 10,555 Mod ✭✭✭✭Robbo


    I'd love to see this implemented. It'd be great to see some leadership from our local representatives on cycling that goes beyond one of them regularly cycling the wrong way up Abbeygate St.

    On the subject of vandalism, I believe the security and system that Dublinbikes use mean that there's only been a small amount of them turfed in the canal or banjaxed by feral youths.


  • Options
    #6
    HardyEustace
    Registered Users Posts: 1,462 ✭✭✭HardyEustace


    eire.man wrote: »
    if Ihad both the safe roads to cycle on and good drivers to avoid me I would gladly complete my full journeys on the road

    We are not Holland with decent cycle lanes!!

    I know that this is a big problem in Galway. Lough Attalia, for example, is a place where you are left with little choice but to cycle along the path, especially at busy times.

    However, I have met people cycling along the prom, been taken out by a large, ignorant lump of a woman on the prom, people cycling across O'Briens bridge - I'm sorry but there is absolutely no excuse for that kind of muppetry.

    Equally cycling along the pavement on the Renmore road when there is a bus lane which leaves more than adequate room for a cyclist.

    I know there are exceptions to each rule (for example, I think Lough Attalia would be a fairly good one) but if you can't handle a bike competently on the road then you shouldn't be on that bike.


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  • Options
    #7
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    HardyEustace wrote: »
    While it would be great to see this scheme coming to Galway, I think it will only further agravate the problem of people cycling on pavements.

    The amount of idiots who think it's perfectly acceptable to cycle along pavements and the prom is astounding.



    I hate footpath cycling myself, but in many cases cyclists are on the path because of the amount of idiots in positions of authority who led them there in the first place, and who are content to leave them there because it's hander than the alternative, which is to provide a safer roads environment.

    I hope the public bike scheme comes to Galway. It would undoubtedly increase the number of cyclists circulating in the city, and that in itself would tend to make cycling safer and more 'normal'. Galway motorists might at last begin to realise that the city is not their private playground, and more Galway cyclists might (a) realise they have both a right and an obligation to be on the road and (b) put more pressure on the City Council to provide better conditions.


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    #8
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    HardyEustace wrote: »
    I know that this is a big problem in Galway. Lough Attalia, for example, is a place where you are left with little choice but to cycle along the path, especially at busy times.

    However, I have met people cycling along the prom, been taken out by a large, ignorant lump of a woman on the prom, people cycling across O'Briens bridge - I'm sorry but there is absolutely no excuse for that kind of muppetry.

    Equally cycling along the pavement on the Renmore road when there is a bus lane which leaves more than adequate room for a cyclist.

    I know there are exceptions to each rule (for example, I think Lough Attalia would be a fairly good one) but if you can't handle a bike competently on the road then you shouldn't be on that bike.



    I have never cycled on the path when travelling along Lough Atalia Road.


  • Options
    #9
    what_traffic
    Registered Users Posts: 4,868 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    How many bikes should Galway have?
    How many stations should Galway have? Locations?
    How much should the subsribtion be? (Dublin is only €10 per year)
    Should you be able to use the same "swipe card" for the other BIKE Share Schemes in the Country?


  • Options
    #10
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    That last point is an interesting one.

    I heard it mentioned on the radio, and it struck me as a good idea. No reason -- other than decision-makers' inertia? -- why the schemes could not be linked.


  • Options
    #11
    what_traffic
    Registered Users Posts: 4,868 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    Executive Summary - Technical report
    Page 2
    "
    This study found that although the potential exists for successful schemes in each city, it would appear that schemes in Galway and Cork would be most successful partly due to the background levels of traffic congestion and the high price of car parking in both cities.
    "


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    #12
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    eire.man wrote: »
    also the scum in this town will see to the bikes being wrecked regularly!!
    It works in Dublin so should work here too I hope. I'm all for it btw, whatever will lessen the traffic is ok in my book.


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    #13
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    what_traffic wrote: »
    Executive Summary - Technical report
    Page 2
    "
    This study found that although the potential exists for successful schemes in each city, it would appear that schemes in Galway and Cork would be most successful partly due to the background levels of traffic congestion and the high price of car parking in both cities.
    "




    For some reason the Advertiser sees that as "ironic".


  • Options
    #14
    what_traffic
    Registered Users Posts: 4,868 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    Iwannahurl wrote: »
    For some reason the Advertiser sees that as "ironic".

    Added that link for ya! Wrong use of the term all right
    No's from the report:
    "
    The report outlines proposals to establish 23 docking stations for public bicycles across the city and estimates that up to 250 bikes would be required to cater for users. It estimates that there would be 1,500 subscribers to the public bike scheme and each bicycle would be rented an average of twice per day. The initial capital cost in setting up the scheme in Galway would be €1.55m, according to the document.
    "


  • Options
    #15
    antoobrien
    Registered Users Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    what_traffic wrote: »

    The Galway meeting is taking place:
    Tuesday, November 15 10.30am – 1.30pm Galway Siobhan McKenna Theatre, Arts Millennium Building, NUI Galway, University Road, Galway

    So they don't want to include working people on this. Okay they'll just have to stay in their cars.


  • Options
    #16
    what_traffic
    Registered Users Posts: 4,868 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    antoobrien wrote: »
    Okay they'll just have to stay in their cars.

    Dont get it? Because one cannot attend a public meeting they will have to stay in their cars? :confused:


  • Options
    #17
    antoobrien
    Registered Users Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    what_traffic wrote: »
    Dont get it? Because one cannot attend a public meeting they will have to stay in their cars? :confused:

    If this is a meaningful attempt to get people out of their cars and not just a PR stunt the public meeting should be at a more suitable time for all the targets of such schemes.


  • Options
    #18
    what_traffic
    Registered Users Posts: 4,868 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    antoobrien wrote: »
    ..the public meeting should be at a more suitable time for all the targets of such schemes.
    Am agreed on that point - most people dont have flexible working hours. Thats just how Civil servants roll.


  • Options
    #19
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    Media will be there.

    Also full-time parents, perhaps.

    Unemployed people. Lots of them about.

    Councillors.

    It's the bike scheme that could potentially assist people commuting to work, not the symposium itself.


  • Options
    #20
    celty
    Registered Users Posts: 370 ✭✭celty


    HardyEustace wrote: »
    I know that this is a big problem in Galway. Lough Attalia, for example, is a place where you are left with little choice but to cycle along the path, especially at busy times.

    However, I have met people cycling along the prom, been taken out by a large, ignorant lump of a woman on the prom, people cycling across O'Briens bridge - I'm sorry but there is absolutely no excuse for that kind of muppetry.

    Equally cycling along the pavement on the Renmore road when there is a bus lane which leaves more than adequate room for a cyclist.

    I know there are exceptions to each rule (for example, I think Lough Attalia would be a fairly good one) but if you can't handle a bike competently on the road then you shouldn't be on that bike.

    Amazing to blame the cyclists when it's the City Council to blame for providing such poor facilities.

    I regularly cycle to work and it's no fun at all trying to cycle home via the Seamus Quirke Road. Basically, my choice is either to take the car or cycle on the footpath because the road is too dangerous.

    Agree re Lough Atalia.

    As for the prom, I use the road. But there is one stretch from Seapoint to Western House which I find too dangerous cycling westwords, so I make no apologies for cycling that bit, although I do try to be slow / careful and haven't knocked anyone down yet.

    Car drivers can potentially cause far more damage to me than people like me can cause to any other road user on our bikes. There's hardly a week that goes by without some idiot pulling out in front of me or just completely ignoring the fact that I'm on the road.


  • Options
    #21
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,669 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    celty wrote: »
    Amazing to blame the cyclists when it's the City Council to blame for providing such poor facilities.

    I regularly cycle to work and it's no fun at all trying to cycle home via the Seamus Quirke Road. Basically, my choice is either to take the car or cycle on the footpath because the road is too dangerous.

    Or dismount and wheel your bicycle on the footpath when the road is too dangerous, thereby travelling at the same speed as the other people using it.

    If you're using any vehicle, motorised or not, then you are responsible for what it does. Sure the council, NRA, etc contribute, but the buck stops with you.


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    #22
    antoobrien
    Registered Users Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    Iwannahurl wrote: »
    Media will be there.

    Also full-time parents, perhaps.

    Unemployed people. Lots of them about.

    Councillors.

    It's the bike scheme that could potentially assist people commuting to work, not the symposium itself.

    The utter laziness of the timing makes it apparent that this is not in fact targeted at the group that can make most impact and is more about the optics of the situtation.


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    #23
    swe_fi
    Registered Users Posts: 363 ✭✭swe_fi


    antoobrien wrote: »
    The utter laziness of the timing makes it apparent that this is not in fact targeted at the group that can make most impact and is more about the optics of the situtation.

    These are very good points on both counts, but...I'm skeptical :-)

    I am curious as to how many people in general and from the working population (which I am part of by the way) that would actually avail of these bikes. Can anyone give good examples of from where to where you would use these bikes, or envisage people using them, and/or over what sort of distances? In Dublin it would make sense based on the fact that the city core is spread out, rather flat and somewhat accommodating to pedestrians and cyclists.

    Galway has much against it when it comes to bikes, i doubt it will ever work before fixing them first.

    a) Weather - Very few people are prepared to turn up sweaty and wet to work. Going shopping or down to town for a pint / meetup / gig, same thing. This (for me and most people i know) rules out cycling or even walking apart from very short distances, and for very short distances I am not going to bother getting a bicycle from A to B. The weather must also be the reason that Galway has the most number of taxis in its main square vs size of town i have ever seen anywhere in the world.

    b) Narrow roads - this is an old town with an ancient road layout which cannot be dramatically changed and congestion is crazy (probably because of point a also) so cycling would be pretty dangerous even if you are a good & confident cyclist because people are stressed and you as a cyclist become a further object of irritation due to the fact you are holding up traffic (not really your fault). Removing roundabouts is not going to solve this issue either even it the main junctions become more friendly to pedestrians & cyclists.

    Feel free to prove me wrong, maybe it will work for students and tourist etc. even if i fail to see how. I would actually love to be able to cycle and walk around Galway and its outskirts / suburbs, but i think it needs a drastic redesign to enable it. And better weather (please). :)


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    #24
    what_traffic
    Registered Users Posts: 4,868 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    swe_fi wrote: »
    These are very good points on both counts, but...I'm skeptical :-)

    I am curious as to how many people in general and from the working population (which I am part of by the way) that would actually avail of these bikes. Can anyone give good examples of from where to where you would use these bikes, or envisage people using them, and/or over what sort of distances? In Dublin it would make sense based on the fact that the city core is spread out, rather flat and somewhat accommodating to pedestrians and cyclists.

    Galway has much against it when it comes to bikes, i doubt it will ever work before fixing them first.

    a) Weather - Very few people are prepared to turn up sweaty and wet to work. Going shopping or down to town for a pint / meetup / gig, same thing. This (for me and most people i know) rules out cycling or even walking apart from very short distances, and for very short distances I am not going to bother getting a bicycle from A to B. The weather must also be the reason that Galway has the most number of taxis in its main square vs size of town i have ever seen anywhere in the world.

    b) Narrow roads - this is an old town with an ancient road layout which cannot be dramatically changed and congestion is crazy (probably because of point a also) so cycling would be pretty dangerous even if you are a good & confident cyclist because people are stressed and you as a cyclist become a further object of irritation due to the fact you are holding up traffic (not really your fault). Removing roundabouts is not going to solve this issue either even it the main junctions become more friendly to pedestrians & cyclists.

    Feel free to prove me wrong, maybe it will work for students and tourist etc. even if i fail to see how. I would actually love to be able to cycle and walk around Galway and its outskirts / suburbs, but i think it needs a drastic redesign to enable it. And better weather (please). :)

    Would recommend to read the Technical report linked in post 1. It answer's alot of the questions you ask. The authors also state that Galway will probably be the most successful of the regional schemes.


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    #25
    what_traffic
    Registered Users Posts: 4,868 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    @ swe_fi
    BTW alot of the same scepticism you outline was also shown before the Dublin Scheme was launched as well.
    See the following thread post in the Cycling Forum.

    Now Dublinbikes is widely recognised as one of the most successful bike share rental schemes in the world. It currently has over 63,000 subscribers (of which almost two thirds hold long term subscriptions) and 2.6 million journeys have been taken since launch. On 13 Oct 2011 the scheme reached yet another rental record. 7,052 journeys were taken on the bikes, meaning each bike was rented an average of 13 times.


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    #26
    antoobrien
    Registered Users Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    swe_fi wrote: »
    I am curious as to how many people in general and from the working population (which I am part of by the way) that would actually avail of these bikes. Can anyone give good examples of from where to where you would use these bikes, or envisage people using them, and/or over what sort of distances? In Dublin it would make sense based on the fact that the city core is spread out, rather flat and somewhat accommodating to pedestrians and cyclists.

    Well in Dublin it's often used by people who travel from say the apartments in the IFSC to other places in around the city center (afaik there's one near the offices at Grand Canal Dock).

    The big boost for it in Dublin is lunch time traffic - people hopping on bikes to get to St Stephens Green for luch and stuff like that - instead of using cars.

    It's information and examples like this that needs to get out to the working public.

    In Galway there are a couple of obvious points. Domnick St & Claddagh on the west and Mervue & Ballybane on the east. Put them in the estates, near the office blocks etc.


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    #27
    swe_fi
    Registered Users Posts: 363 ✭✭swe_fi


    what_traffic wrote: »
    Would recommend to read the Technical report linked in post 1. It answer's alot of the questions you ask. The authors also state that Galway will probably be the most successful of the regional schemes.

    I did read through the consultant report and it is pretty much based on data from other European cities, most of them not anything like Galway in terms of climate and from 1 meeting city council>consultants and a brief city walk-around during off peak hours. There are a lot of assumptions. One of the recommendations is that it would be implemented with 200-250 bikes over 4 km2 (compared to 8km2 proposed by the city council) = 50-62 bikes / km2 - this just sounds bonkers to me.

    The report mentions that the weather would not prevent it from being implemented, but this purely based on the fact that it worked in Dublin. I understand that it works in Dublin, and I can also understand why based on the city layout as i said previously but I don't think this is suitable for Galway, sorry. I say spend the money on improving the current cycling/walking infrastructure instead.


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    #28
    what_traffic
    Registered Users Posts: 4,868 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    swe_fi wrote: »
    I say spend the money on improving the current cycling/walking infrastructure instead.

    This argument is like the argument which came first the chicken or the egg.
    Anyways - why cant both be done at the same time? NOTE: Focusing just on hard infrastructure can be a big mistake. You can end up with stuff like this - which is not used at all by cyclists and actually inconviences and puts cyclists in Danger in Galway City.
    Soft measures are just as important. Changing hearts and minds is the key. Bikeshare schemes do this.
    A Galwaybike share is adding to a citys cycling / transport infrastructure. It introduces people who don't currently cycle to cycling.


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    #29
    what_traffic
    Registered Users Posts: 4,868 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    swe_fi wrote: »
    The report mentions that the weather would not prevent it from being implemented, but this purely based on the fact that it worked in Dublin.

    The weather argument is actually weaker for bikeshare schemes. You could take the bus to work in the morning, get a taxi, get a lift, car pool when its raining and then use the galwaybike in the afternoon / evening if it was dry.


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    #30
    swe_fi
    Registered Users Posts: 363 ✭✭swe_fi


    what_traffic wrote: »
    This argument is like the argument which came first the chicken or the egg.
    Anyways - why cant both be done at the same time? NOTE: Focusing just on hard infrastructure can be a big mistake. You can end up with stuff like this - which is not used at all by cyclists and actually inconviences and puts cyclists in Danger in Galway City.
    Soft measures are just as important. Changing hearts and minds is the key. Bikeshare schemes do this.
    A Galwaybike share is adding to a citys cycling / transport infrastructure. It introduces people who don't currently cycle to cycling.

    The weather argument is actually weaker for bikeshare schemes. You could take the bus to work in the morning, get a taxi, get a lift, car pool when its raining and then use the galwaybike in the afternoon / evening if it was dry.


    The article you linked to is at best very biased and not a good example, well it is a good example of sensationalist journalism "Doomsday" lol. I don't see the problem with the pictures in the article you linked to to be honest, I would be able to cycle there as would most people. I used to live along this road and it is a low density road at most times. I even used to cycle from there to work before these cycle lanes were built and it was fine even back then.

    As for taking the bus, taxi, carpooling, galwaybike etc etc - yes you could in theory (I personally could not actually) if you had unlimited time on your hands or a PA but you would be spending literally hours and hours every week trying to organize travel based on the weather conditions (which could change 5 times during the day) and then end up waiting for a bus that never turns up, or half an hour late. Taxis cost a fortune over time (done that) and most of them will not take a bike.


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    #31
    what_traffic
    Registered Users Posts: 4,868 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    swe_fi wrote: »
    I don't see the problem with the pictures in the article you linked to to be honest, I would be able to cycle there as would most people. I used to live along this road and it is a low density road at most times. I even used to cycle from there to work before these cycle lanes paths were built and it was fine even back then.
    Have you cycled it since the cycle paths where installed?
    Would recommend to cycle on the path and the road for comparison and then come back and say which one was the better experience.
    Its much slower now to complete your journey, lots of stopping and starting.
    swe_fi wrote: »
    I even used to cycle from there to work before these cycle lanes paths were built and it was fine even back then.
    Good point! So was there was no need for the cycle paths in the first place?

    Anyhow by the sounds of it this bikeshare scheme is not for you plus I am not sure do you understand it fully? I fail to see the relevance of your statement
    Taxis cost a fortune over time (done that) and most of them will not take a bike.


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