Riello pump not pumping to nozzle

LookBehindYou · 15-11-2012 3:26am #1

Any ideas ?

New pump due to contamination in kerosene.
Filters were replaced on oil line.
New pump worked for a few hours then the burner locked out.
Freed out pump with the fan, so it turns ok.
Checked pump internal filter and found more contamination on the filter.
Cleaned it and tried to start burner again after bleeding, but no luck.
Pump is turning,but not getting up to any pressure to pump it to nozzle.
Solenoid is working, new nozzle,spark ok.
My question is : how do I fix the pump so it can get enough pressure to send kero to the nozzle ?

andy2die4 · 15-11-2012 4:13am

I would suggest that the pump is not the problem, you still have the contamination in the pipe line or tank. The pump is sucking it up, its blocking the filters and the pipe. Check filters again.
What was the contamination?

shane0007 · 15-11-2012 8:52am

Oil line is blocked. Came across it endless amount of times. Disconnect oil from oil tank and from burner. Place flexible hose into container. With an air compressor, blow high pressure air through the line. Re-clean ALL filters again. REPLACE nozzle. Burner will have to be re-analyised to set it up corrected.

LookBehindYou · 15-11-2012 10:37am

Thanks for the quick replies Andy and Shane.
There is flow in the oil line. I filled a few containers of kero from the oil line to see what **** is in it.No sign of water. The filters are picking up some black stuff, but are not getting clogged with it.
So basically, the is oil flow, but still no pressure in pump.
Settings on pump were not changed. There is only a small bit of pressure while bleeding when motor is running.
There is no liquid getting pumped out to nozzle.

DGOBS · 15-11-2012 12:09pm

You need some oil tank maintenance, sounds like there is water and bacterial growth at the bottom of your tank, essentially the same problem will reoccur until addressed, filters should stay clean for you

jimf · 15-11-2012 1:54pm

hate to say it but maybe new pump is now shot as well are you even getting wash pressure at start up

LookBehindYou · 15-11-2012 3:09pm

jimf wrote: »

hate to say it but maybe new pump is now shot as well are you even getting wash pressure at start up

What is wash pressure ? all I know is that when motor is running it gives some pressure because it squirts out more than when motor is not running.

jimf · 15-11-2012 3:33pm

LookBehindYou wrote: »

What is wash pressure ? all I know is that when motor is running it gives some pressure because it squirts out more than when motor is not running.

wash pressure is the pressure the pump generates at start up in a riello rdb this is usually 1.5 bar while in a 3gb is can be as high as 5 but you really need to fit a pressure gauge to find out exactly

i presume you have one if your working on oil burners

LookBehindYou · 15-11-2012 3:43pm

Jim, I dont have a pressure guage.
Its my home heating that I am trying to sort out.
Its a mechanical issue with the pump not pumping enough pressure to get to the nozzle.
If the pump was working ok, I would leave it to the experts to do the proper settings on the burner.
To get to that stage, I want to sort out the pump so it can build up pressure.

jimf · 15-11-2012 3:55pm

at this stage you really need to get somebody with test equipment to find out what exactly your problem is

lots of advice given here could point to your problem ie tank oil line etc

unfortunately you cant fix a pump other than clean the filter thats it

and sorry if i seemed ****ty about gauge

if you disconnect hose to bottom of pump are you getting a good steady oil flow

are you sure the pressure adjustment on pump was not interfered with

LookBehindYou · 15-11-2012 4:12pm

Thanks for your quick reply Jim.
There is flow in the oil pipe when disconnected from pump.
There is fuel coming out of the bleed screw.
There is also a bit of pressure flow with the motor on, checked from the allen screw which is located on the 15mm brass fitting.
The pressure adjustment was not touched.

I can understand pump failure if the drive was seized or hard to turn.

No oil leak.
No air leak.
Pump turns.
No blockages in pipes.

jimf · 15-11-2012 4:22pm

pump can turn freely and still be shot i hope im wrong but it looks like that

but as shane007 and dgobs pointed out you need to sort the source of the problem first if pump is shot no point in fitting another only for the same problem again

are you sure coil is ok how did you test it

but on riello burners they really dont give many problems

LookBehindYou · 15-11-2012 4:28pm

Coil was checked by taking out the solenoid valve and observing the valve working when power came to it from the coil which was still wired to the control box.

DGOBS · 15-11-2012 8:39pm

you sure you didn't get dirt etc under the stem valve you removed when checking the solenoid?

LookBehindYou · 15-11-2012 11:14pm

No dirt under that valve. I could see kero there.

jimf · 15-11-2012 11:30pm

unless there is something im missing this looks like pump failure again im afraid

unless shane007 dgobs or billy bunting comes up with something else to try

LookBehindYou · 15-11-2012 11:34pm

jimf wrote: »

unless there is something im missing this looks like pump failure again im afraid

unless shane007 dgobs or billy bunting comes up with something else to try

What makes these pumps fail ?

DGOBS · 15-11-2012 11:48pm

crap in the fuel, ie, water contamination for poorly maintained oil storage tanks and the resulting bacterial growth

TPM · 15-11-2012 11:54pm

DGOBS wrote: »

crap in the fuel, ie, water contamination for poorly maintained oil storage tanks and the resulting bacterial growth

and people frequently running out of oil, and repeatedly pressing the reset button till it fires up again

jimf · 16-11-2012 12:01am

TPM wrote: »

and people frequently running out of oil, and repeatedly pressing the reset button till it fires up again

good point
and the little allen key in the bottom of the boiler
tells the whole story

jimjimt · 16-11-2012 12:18am

Perhaps the built in filter on the pump needs to be cleaned,
As DGOBS said the stem valve,
Or as simple as a dirty nozzle.

You said that their was black bits in the oil coming through when you took of the hose to check flow ?

LookBehindYou · 16-11-2012 12:35am

I checked filter in pump, and was only a very small bit of grit on the filter. So it was cleaned and put back.
The nozzle is still like new because no kero got pumped to it.

I took an old pump apart to see what internals are in it.
its just a gear driving a toothed cog around with a half moon shape bit of metal below the gear.
The shaft turns the gear.
What makes them not work ?

jimjimt · 16-11-2012 12:47am

Nozzles can come unusable. Rare but it does happen. Rub your finger or rag across the top of the nozzle is enough to ruin it. Worth 8 euro for a new one to try.
As others have suggested you need a pressure gauge to check it is building pressure. You are saying their is a squirt coming out. So it could be a blocked nozzle and the pump working. It is the only thing left for you to try before you get a gauge.
It works like all pumps, engines it transfer a larger volume to a smaller space to create pressure.

jimjimt · 16-11-2012 12:59am

The pumps are self lubricating with kerosene. If they get water or other contaminants the pump and seals cannot lubricate and burn and wear in seconds. The same as putting water into an engine sump.
Very sensitive think about its size it can built up pressure to 14 bar if set. Self cooled self lubed.
A larger garage compressor builds up to 10 bar.

LookBehindYou · 16-11-2012 1:05am

jimjimt wrote: »

Nozzles can come unusable. Rare but it does happen. Rub your finger or rag across the top of the nozzle is enough to ruin it. Worth 8 euro for a new one to try.
As others have suggested you need a pressure gauge to check it is building pressure. You are saying their is a squirt coming out. So it could be a blocked nozzle and the pump working. It is the only thing left for you to try before you get a gauge.
It works like all pumps, engines it transfer a larger volume to a smaller space to create pressure.

There is nothing being pumped to the nozzle. There is a squirt coming out of bleed screw. The squirt increases in pressure when motor is running.

LookBehindYou · 16-11-2012 1:07am

jimjimt wrote: »

The pumps are self lubricating with kerosene. If they get water or other contaminants the pump and seals cannot lubricate and burn and wear in seconds. The same as putting water into an engine sump.
Very sensitive think about its size it can built up pressure to 14 bar if set. Self cooled self lubed.
A larger garage compressor builds up to 10 bar.

Lack of lubrication would make the pump seize.
This pump is not seized, and has no leaks.

shane0007 · 16-11-2012 1:20am

How can possibly try to decipher what is going on without a pressure gauge or a vacuum gauge attached? It is only guess work. You said to changed the pump but then got more crap through. This could be an issue. What resistance are you getting across the coil? Is may be enough to see some action on the coil but not enough to completely lift solenoid seating? Did you replace the nozzle? The list can go on and on.....

TPM · 16-11-2012 12:33pm

This has came up a few times recently on boards.
Oil pumps fail and are replaced only to have more issues and/or the new pump failing.

It is ESSENTIAL to find the reason why the pump fails before it is replaced. If it was due to dirt, water or other contamination in the oil, a lack of oil or restricted oil supply this MUST be rectified BEFORE the new pump is fitted. If it caused the failure of one pump it will cause the new pump to fail sooner or later.

As shane said There is very little you can do to fault find an oil pump without a pressure gauge

Riello pump not pumping to nozzle

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