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Is anybody else getting excited about Arthur's Day?!

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    #302
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    This is ridiculous. Cancer has no benefits whatsoever. Alcohol can be beneficial to a good night if you drink an appropriate amount of it.

    To compare something which is only bad when it's abused, to something which is bad in any and all circumstances, is moronic.

    I merely pointed out what the poster may have been insinuating.
    Is it not true that MANY people have been affected by both, in a bad way?


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    #303
    mathepac
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,991 ✭✭✭mathepac


    Bam Bam Mickey wrote: »
    ...
    Is it not true that MANY people have been affected by both, in a bad way?
    Correct and many consumers of alcohol suffer oral cancers and cancers of the digestive tract, liver, pancreas, etc. from alcohol consumption.

    The entire nonsense is equivalent to having arms manufacturers organising an anti-war rally, and displaying a similar cynical view. "Yeah our products kill you, but let's all dance and sing our way to either long lingering painful decline or sudden premature deaths. Diddley idley idley-oh!"


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    #304
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    Bam Bam Mickey wrote: »
    I merely pointed out what the poster may have been insinuating.
    Is it not true that MANY people have been affected by both, in a bad way?

    It is, however it is also true that many people's lives are enhanced by occasional moderate drinking. Nobody's life has ever been enhanced by getting cancer.

    Same with regard to the arms dealing post above.
    Many people's lives are ruined by obesity as well, should we condemn the commercial aspect of Easter because it involves, for children, eating a sh!teload of chocolate?

    Gambling when abused also destroys people's lives, should we therefore condemn organized "nights at the dogs" for parties?

    Once again, the idea that some abusers of something should ruin it for everyone is moronic. Deal with the specific troublemakers only. Most of us can have a good time without causing sh!te and there's no reason we should suffer because of the idiots who can't.


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    #305
    mathepac
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,991 ✭✭✭mathepac


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    It is, however it is also true that many people's lives are enhanced by occasional moderate drinking. ...
    No doubt you have some solid medical evidence to back up your assertion that alcohol consumption enhances the health and lives of consumers.
    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    ... Nobody's life has ever been enhanced by getting cancer....
    Which why it's a great idea for people to be vigilant and avoid carcinogens like tobacco and alcohol.
    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    ... Many people's lives are ruined by obesity as well, should we condemn the commercial aspect of Easter because it involves, for children, eating a sh!teload of chocolate? ...
    Peoples' lives are being ruined by alcohol, a major cause of obesity in both men and women drinkers, and by conditions like diabetes, again alcohol is a factor contributing to type 2 diabetes in adults.
    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    ... Gambling when abused also destroys people's lives, should we therefore condemn organized "nights at the dogs" for parties?

    Once again, the idea that some abusers of something should ruin it for everyone is moronic. ...
    You seem stuck on the notion that the health problems I highlighted above as being associated with alcohol are the exclusive purview of "abusers"; I can assure you they are not.
    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    ... Deal with the specific troublemakers only. Most of us can have a good time without causing sh!te and there's no reason we should suffer because of the idiots who can't.
    I have never mentioned "trouble-makers" unless you consider people who become mortally ill from alcohol consumption "trouble-makers" or "idiots".

    I find the tone of your post both nauseating and repulsive in the extreme.


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    #306
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    mathepac wrote: »
    No doubt you have some solid medical evidence to back up your assertion that alcohol consumption enhances the health and lives of consumers.

    Well there is evidence of some health benefits from drinking small amounts of alcohol but it certainly enhances the lives of consumers. The fantastic nights out I have had and am still having along with weekends away and big events that I look back on and remember the fantastic time I had would have been nowhere near as good with out alcohol being involved.

    You will get a similar response from most people who consume Alcohol as part of their social lives.


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    #307
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    mathepac wrote: »
    No doubt you have some solid medical evidence to back up your assertion that alcohol consumption enhances the health and lives of consumers.

    I enjoy a couple of beers every now and then (when I say now and then, for me that's at most once a week, and a couple really is a couple. I don't like being locked.) Nobody enjoys cancer.
    Which why it's a great idea for people to be vigilant and avoid carcinogens like tobacco and alcohol.

    It is, yes.
    Peoples' lives are being ruined by alcohol, a major cause of obesity in both men and women drinkers, and by conditions like diabetes, again alcohol is a factor contributing to type 2 diabetes in adults.

    Lots of different forms of junk food also cause those same ailments. Should we ban the chipper? Ban Abrakebabra? Ban McDonalds?
    You seem stuck on the notion that the health problems I highlighted above as being associated with alcohol are the exclusive purview of "abusers"; I can assure you they are not.

    So you're telling me the person who enjoys an occasional beer or glass of wine is plummeting towards their doom in the same sense as the alcoholic who never remembers his nights out and pukes every morning after then?
    I have never mentioned "trouble-makers" unless you consider people who become mortally ill from alcohol consumption "trouble-makers" or "idiots".

    Others have mentioned them, in terms of anti social behavior. I'll amend that to say troublemakers and abusers of alcohol.
    I find the tone of your post both nauseating and repulsive in the extreme.

    Why, because I believe that everybody shouldn't suffer because of the actions of some?
    Are you in the same boat as those who would ban trampolines in back gardens (widely in the news at the moment) because some kids get injured using them?
    Would you be in favour of scrapping the national lottery? Gambling, when abused, is just as horrific a vice as alcohol after all... How about Shelbourne Park? The Grand National?

    Your positions make no sense. Condemning alcohol abuse is one thing, but you seem to be veering towards condemning alcohol in any and all circumstances, which is ridiculous.


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    #308
    mathepac
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,991 ✭✭✭mathepac


    Lillie Wet Stockroom wrote: »
    Well there is evidence of some health benefits from drinking small amounts of alcohol ...
    So where is this evidence and what precisely does it say?
    Lillie Wet Stockroom wrote: »
    ... but it certainly enhances the lives of consumers. The fantastic nights out I have had and am still having along with weekends away and big events that I look back on and remember the fantastic time I had would have been nowhere near as good with out alcohol being involved....
    My initial response is to point out that it should be possible for a "normal drinker" to enjoy a night out and to socialise without alcohol. If your perception is that the only good nights, or even the best nights, are those associated with drinking, then there is immediate cause for concern.
    Lillie Wet Stockroom wrote: »
    ... You will get a similar response from most people who consume Alcohol as part of their social lives.
    Personally I choose not to give opinions on behalf of "most people" as "most people" didn't appoint me as their spokesman, nor have I solicited the opinions of "most people".


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    #309
    mathepac
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,991 ✭✭✭mathepac


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    ... Lots of different forms of junk food also cause those same ailments. Should we ban the chipper? Ban Abrakebabra? Ban McDonalds? ...
    I had hoped to try and focus on the Arthur's Day cynicism where a massive alcohol pushing campaign masquerading as a "cultural event" and a "fund-raising" opportunity for charity, is in reality only a thinly disguised advertising campaign for yet another alcohol-based product.

    But as you mention the purveyors of unhealthy foods, I would argue that there is a causal link between the pubs and clubs emptying their intoxicated patrons onto the streets and the demand for junk-food peaking. So if there was more moderate alcohol consumption the sales of junk-food would automatically fall, contributing to a healthier population.
    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    ... So you're telling me the person who enjoys an occasional beer or glass of wine is plummeting towards their doom in the same sense as the alcoholic who never remembers his nights out and pukes every morning after then? ...
    I have suggested nothing of the kind. I have pointed out that beverage alcohol is carcinogenic.
    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    ... Others have mentioned them, in terms of anti social behavior. I'll amend that to say troublemakers and abusers of alcohol...
    I haven't mentioned them in any of my posts.
    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    ... Why, because I believe that everybody shouldn't suffer because of the actions of some?
    Are you in the same boat as those who would ban trampolines in back gardens (widely in the news at the moment) because some kids get injured using them?
    Would you be in favour of scrapping the national lottery? Gambling, when abused, is just as horrific a vice as alcohol after all... How about Shelbourne Park? The Grand National? ...
    I have no idea what all this nonsense is about; the thread topic is Arthur's Day, the Diageo advertising campaign for one of their brands.
    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    ... Your positions make no sense. Condemning alcohol abuse is one thing, but you seem to be veering towards condemning alcohol in any and all circumstances, which is ridiculous.
    My position makes no sense to you, because you haven't read my posts but have chosen to go on a rant of some kind about topics and matters I never raised or discussed in the thread.

    The issue I am addressing is Diageo's cynicism in using the guise of fund-raising and culture in order to push one of their products in a country where alcohol consumption already costs lives and billions in health-care costs annually.

    So KISS, read my posts and stay on topic. Oh and as you spoke of gambling, be careful of the horse you are on, he's very high and it's a long way to the ground.


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    #310
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    mathepac wrote: »
    Peoples' lives are being ruined by alcohol, a major cause of obesity in both men and women drinkers,

    No, over consumption of calories is the major cause of obesity. Don't try to target any one particular product because that's just nonsense. It's everything someone consumes that leads to their obesity.


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    #311
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    It is, however it is also true that many people's lives are enhanced by occasional moderate drinking. Nobody's life has ever been enhanced by getting cancer.

    Same with regard to the arms dealing post above.
    Many people's lives are ruined by obesity as well, should we condemn the commercial aspect of Easter because it involves, for children, eating a sh!teload of chocolate?

    Gambling when abused also destroys people's lives, should we therefore condemn organized "nights at the dogs" for parties?

    Once again, the idea that some abusers of something should ruin it for everyone is moronic. Deal with the specific troublemakers only. Most of us can have a good time without causing sh!te and there's no reason we should suffer because of the idiots who can't.

    You like describing everything as moronic
    Think it makes you look intelligent?:pac:

    Enhanced lives from occasional moderate drinking?
    :pac:
    Yes, you are so right, everyone becomes lovely people on drink and never act different to when they are sober.:rolleyes:
    Everyone who drinks will always say it doesn't affect them in a negative way.


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    #312
    Defiler Of The Coffin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,117 ✭✭✭Defiler Of The Coffin


    Bam Bam Mickey wrote: »
    Everyone who drinks will always say it doesn't affect them in a negative way.

    There'd be no need for Alcoholics Anonymous if that was the case


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    #313
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    mathepac wrote: »
    So where is this evidence and what precisely does it say?

    http://www.plosmedicine.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pmed.1001090

    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1530-0277.2010.01286.x/abstract

    Two papers which talk about the benefits of low levels of alcohol.
    mathepac wrote: »
    My initial response is to point out that it should be possible for a "normal drinker" to enjoy a night out and to socialise without alcohol. If your perception is that the only good nights, or even the best nights, are those associated with drinking, then there is immediate cause for concern.

    Why on earth would there be "immediate cause for concern"?


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    #314
    mathepac
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,991 ✭✭✭mathepac


    Lillie Wet Stockroom wrote: »
    http://www.plosmedicine.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pmed.1001090 ...
    "Conclusions: These data suggest that regular, moderate consumption of alcohol at midlife may be related to a modest increase in overall health status among women who survive to older ages."

    Did you read the conclusions part of the first paper? Translated they mean that there may be some some benefits to regular moderate alcohol consumption for some members of a unique population.
    Lillie Wet Stockroom wrote: »
    ...
    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1530-0277.2010.01286.x/abstract

    Two papers which talk about the benefits of low levels of alcohol....
    The first thing to note is that both papers focussed on specialist populations and the conclusions they both reached relate only to slightly different but none-the-less tightly defined populations.

    The conclusions in both cases are so specific that they cannot possibly be applied to the general population.

    "Conclusions:  Findings are consistent with an interpretation that the survival effect for moderate drinking compared to abstention among older adults reflects 2 processes. First, the effect of confounding factors associated with alcohol abstention is considerable. However, even after taking account of traditional and nontraditional covariates, moderate alcohol consumption continued to show a beneficial effect in predicting mortality risk."


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    #315
    long range shooter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,493 ✭✭✭long range shooter


    BunShopVoyeur wrote: »
    Toddle off there so like a good boy.

    Banned. Quit the trolling.

    About time;)


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    #316
    otto_26
    Registered Users Posts: 518 ✭✭✭otto_26


    dodderangler wrote: »
    Sweet jaysus
    Bangin headache and a BLT beside my bed don't remember going to a shop and pretty sure I puked somewhere

    Really? your mad altogether! :rolleyes:


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