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Suspension gone?

  • 18-05-2015 3:11pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 2,793 ✭✭✭


    Went to drive a car that had been parked up probably guts of 2 months. Fiat Grande punto. Noticed some noises when pulling out the drive but put it down to rust on break discs... But after driving for a while it became obvious that the issue was when turning steering. I got out and had a look and it appears the left front side suspension is really low and the noise appears to be from the tire touching chassis or whatever...

    Have it into the garage on Friday to fix but wondering what could be the issue. Car has very low mileage. 2007 with about 40-50k miles on the clock.

    I have pictures I can attach later if required.

    Cheers


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,793 ✭✭✭Xcellor


    Xcellor wrote: »
    Went to drive a car that had been parked up probably guts of 2 months. Fiat Grande punto. Noticed some noises when pulling out the drive but put it down to rust on break discs... But after driving for a while it became obvious that the issue was when turning steering. I got out and had a look and it appears the left front side suspension is really low and the noise appears to be from the tire touching chassis or whatever...

    Have it into the garage on Friday to fix but wondering what could be the issue. Car has very low mileage. 2007 with about 40-50k miles on the clock.

    I have pictures I can attach later if required.

    Cheers

    I should mention that when it was driven last there was no sign of this issue. Or at least it was not immediately obvious...


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,787 ✭✭✭slimjimmc


    Probably a broken spring. Leave the car parked up, it's not something you should be driving around on especially if the tyre is rubbing off the wheel arch (rust on the brake discs would normally only make a noise when braking).


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,793 ✭✭✭Xcellor


    slimjimmc wrote: »
    Probably a broken spring. Leave the car parked up, it's not something you should be driving around on especially if the tyre is rubbing off the wheel arch (rust on the brake discs would normally only make a noise when braking).

    The garage is a couple of KM away I intend to drive it handy on Thursday.

    Any one know what the cost of fixing something like that is?


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,525 ✭✭✭kona


    Are the tyres inflated properly?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,635 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    Xcellor wrote: »
    The garage is a couple of KM away I intend to drive it handy on Thursday.

    Any one know what the cost of fixing something like that is?

    We would have to see pics. Driving it with a tire rubbing is not a great idea.
    You could damage the tire, rim, wing, wheel arch-liner or whatever else gets in the way. If we can see it, we will know more.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 33,372 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Could equally be a seized brake piston too. On top of your spring issues.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,793 ✭✭✭Xcellor


    Here is how it looks presently.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,793 ✭✭✭Xcellor


    kona wrote: »
    Are the tyres inflated properly?

    They could probably do with a bit of air alright but they don't look sagging defo not enough to give this behaviour imo


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,793 ✭✭✭Xcellor


    When I was driving the first time I noticed this I felt something fall off the car and bang off the underside of the car. The noise was there before this occured though. Its difficult to say if this was something that was just on the road but after looking at some pictures of springs that are damaged I suppose a piece of the damaged spring could have broken off and got catapulated underneath the car.


  • Registered Users Posts: 33,372 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Xcellor wrote: »
    When I was driving the first time I noticed this I felt something fall off the car and bang off the underside of the car. The noise was there before this occured though. Its difficult to say if this was something that was just on the road but after looking at some pictures of springs that are damaged I suppose a piece of the damaged spring could have broken off and got catapulated underneath the car.

    if something fell off its mostly likely cracked spring.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 80 ✭✭CD8ED


    Maybe have a look for oil coming from the shock. I doubt the spring would break if it's just been sitting up for two months (Unless you have someone who likes a joy ride in the family). Pic doesn't really tell much tbh.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,787 ✭✭✭slimjimmc


    CD8ED wrote: »
    Maybe have a look for oil coming from the shock. I doubt the spring would break if it's just been sitting up for two months (Unless you have someone who likes a joy ride in the family). Pic doesn't really tell much tbh.

    A failed shock won't cause the suspension to drop. A failing spring could have been on it's way out for a while and just coincidence that it happened when it did. A bump or a sticky top mount might have been enough to finish it off.

    It should be fairly easy for the OP to visually check if it's the spring by comparing with the good spring.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,506 ✭✭✭Interslice


    Ye just jack up that corner of the car and have a look. Turn the steering wheel if you cant get a good view.

    2m7fec8.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,793 ✭✭✭Xcellor


    Interslice wrote: »
    Ye just jack up that corner of the car and have a look. Turn the steering wheel if you cant get a good view.

    2m7fec8.jpg

    Yeah this is it. I jacked it up and basically took a pic to post but this picture is a near carbon copy of it.

    I suppose rust got at it from not being driven? No one has driven it in the last couple of months. I brought it for the last drive and then the tax ran out and I had it parked up. I didn't notice anything strange last time it was driven.

    How much to replace the spring? Is it something that needs to be done in pairs? Bit worried the other one could be on its way out too.

    Am I ok to drive it a couple of KM nice and slowly, garage just down the road . Could get them to tow it but dont want to fork out for that too.

    Cheers.
    X


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,787 ✭✭✭slimjimmc


    Springs break due to fatigue, not because it was parked up for 2 months, and when they do they go suddenly even though the actual stress point could have been building for months.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,532 ✭✭✭JohnBoy26


    slimjimmc wrote: »
    A failed shock won't cause the suspension to drop. A failing spring could have been on it's way out for a while and just coincidence that it happened when it did. A bump or a sticky top mount might have been enough to finish it off.

    It should be fairly easy for the OP to visually check if it's the spring by comparing with the good spring.

    A leaking shock can cause the suspension to sag in some cars.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,635 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    JohnBoy26 wrote: »
    A leaking shock can cause the suspension to sag in some cars.

    Not to a great degree, since the shock doesn't hold the car up. You could remove the shocks and the car would sit fine. Ride would be a bit bouncy though.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭ofcork


    Saw that on one of those uk cop shows,pulled over a car as cop thought it looked bouncy and all shocks were shagged so just riding on the springs!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,498 ✭✭✭obezyana


    I had this very issue on my car only recently. Easy fix and it shouldn't be too expensive. I got the spring from the local auto factors for 80euro.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,635 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    obezyana wrote: »
    I had this very issue on my car only recently. Easy fix and it shouldn't be too expensive. I got the spring from the local auto factors for 80euro.

    Hope you replaced them as a pair, if one goes, the other one's not far behind.
    And by the time the springs go, it's time to look at the shocks and topmounts. better get it all done in one go and not have any headaches in the future.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,793 ✭✭✭Xcellor


    Hope you replaced them as a pair, if one goes, the other one's not far behind.
    And by the time the springs go, it's time to look at the shocks and topmounts. better get it all done in one go and not have any headaches in the future.

    This car has barely been driven at all... like its 2007 but has around 50,000 miles if that. Do you think it needs more than the springs?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,635 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    Xcellor wrote: »
    This car has barely been driven at all... like its 2007 but has around 50,000 miles if that. Do you think it needs more than the springs?

    Its more the age than the mileage.
    I would definitely change both springs, brake and suspension components should always be changed in pairs.
    The shocks, well, I'd give them a check, its more a case of while you're in there you might as well.
    If the shocks go a short while later, you'll have to pay to have it all taken apart again or go through the hassle if you're doing it yourself.
    It all depends, in my case I needed the car to hold together for another good while and a lot more miles. Mine is an 06 and had done 250k km. It has 330k km on it now.
    I would at least do the two springs. Are you doing it yourself or bringing it to the garage?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,498 ✭✭✭obezyana


    Hope you replaced them as a pair, if one goes, the other one's not far behind.
    And by the time the springs go, it's time to look at the shocks and topmounts. better get it all done in one go and not have any headaches in the future.

    That's not true in everycase. The other suspension is fine. The other side can be checked and all can be good so changing the suspension in pairs is not always needed.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,635 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    obezyana wrote: »
    That's not true in everycase. The other suspension is fine. The other side can be checked and all can be good so changing the suspension in pairs is not always needed.

    Take a car and change only the springs on the left hand side and watch that sucker lean. :cool: New springs are taller than springs that had a car sit on them for several years.
    Also, if only one spring gets changed, it had better an identical one, different brands could react differently, have different ratings or dimensions, so you have a car that handles differently turning left than turning right. Not a smart idea.
    Springs, shocks, brake pads and discs (and of course tires) should always be changed in pairs and be identical to each other.
    Unless you just fitted them and one of them goes a few weeks later.
    This insanity of changing one tire or suspension component at a time is just baffling and saving money on the worst possible item.
    If you have a car you want wheels and suspension to be identical on either side.

    edit:

    Just my own experience with springs. One went boing and broke and the other went not shortly afterwards. Springs break due to fatigue and corrosion, if one goes the other one is not far behind. Unless this was a brand new spring and broke because the car hit a pothole or something else.
    Otherwise, they go in pairs. It would be silly only change one. I can't stress that enough.
    When mine went, I did springs, shocks, bump stops and top mounts. So I won't have to go near it for a good while (*). Otherwise I would have done a spring, then the other 2 months later, then taken it all apart and replaced knackered shocks and it would have been months of pain and useless expense (if I hadn't done it myself), so this piecemeal approach is saving nothing, quite the opposite.

    (*)
    At least the springs and shocks, of course the car then needed bushings, pads and discs, but that is OK, because I didn't have to remove the suspension struts for that and heave at it with spring compressors. By the way, spring compressors are a monumental PITA if you don't have air and have to hand crank them. I had arms like Popeye afterwards. :) :eek:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,498 ✭✭✭obezyana


    Sure my original post said i changed a coil and it was one one side only. The sucker as you put it doesn't lean at all. In fact it went through the NCT with no issues regarding the suspension. So again it is not always the case that suspensions need to be changed in pairs.

    Would you change both wishbones if just one side failed? If you would then fair play you must have a alot of time and money to be able to change things because the other one failed.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,635 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    obezyana wrote: »
    Sure my original post said i changed a coil and it was one one side only. The sucker as you put it doesn't lean at all. In fact it went through the NCT with no issues regarding the suspension. So again it is not always the case that suspensions need to be changed in pairs.

    Would you change both wishbones if just one side failed? If you would then fair play you must have a alot of time and money to be able to change things because the other one failed.

    OK, this is only what I think:
    Springs, shocks, brake pads and discs (and of course tires) should always be changed in pairs and be identical to each other.

    But:

    http://mechanics.stackexchange.com/questions/3110/if-one-coil-spring-needs-replacing-do-i-need-to-replace-both
    It is always recommended to replace suspecsion and braking components on both sides of the same axle at the same time, wherever possible.

    http://www.kyb-europe.com/spring-coils.html
    When broken – always replace in axle pairs

    http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1363691
    I would normally advocate changing springs and/or dampers in pairs, for two reasons; having one new and one worn is likely to lead to things like uneven tyre wear

    http://www.partinfo.co.uk/articles/82
    When a spring fails, due to corrosion or other reasons, drivers often request that only the defective spring be replaced rather than replacing in axle pairs. Failure to replace in pairs can have multiple negative consequences, in addition to likely financial costs. Coil springs fitted in axle pairs degrade at around the same rate during normal use, meaning that when one sags or breaks, the other will most likely not be far behind. When just one spring is replaced on an axle, an imbalance can exist. Replacing springs in pairs will return the vehicle to the original ride height.

    Unless the car is a shed/needs to be bodged for a quick, dodgy sell or is on it's way out and only has to complete the journey to the scrappy, I would never replace just a single spring. Unless I just replaced a pair and a few weeks later one breaks due to accident or pothole, then I would do only the one. But having one shiny, new, bouncy spring on one side and a rusting, pitted, sagging one on the other is not great. Do you also replace your tires one at a time? Are there 4 different ones on the car?
    In the end I argue not so much with you (you can do what you want, just don't take me out along with yourself), but anyone else. Springs, shocks, brakes, always in pairs!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,498 ✭✭✭obezyana


    OK, this is only what I think:


    But:

    http://mechanics.stackexchange.com/questions/3110/if-one-coil-spring-needs-replacing-do-i-need-to-replace-both



    http://www.kyb-europe.com/spring-coils.html



    http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1363691



    http://www.partinfo.co.uk/articles/82



    Unless the car is a shed/needs to be bodged for a quick, dodgy sell or is on it's way out and only has to complete the journey to the scrappy, I would never replace just a single spring. Unless I just replaced a pair and a few weeks later one breaks due to accident or pothole, then I would do only the one. But having one shiny, new, bouncy spring on one side and a rusting, pitted, sagging one on the other is not great. Do you also replace your tires one at a time? Are there 4 different ones on the car?
    In the end I argue not so much with you (you can do what you want, just don't take me out along with yourself), but anyone else. Springs, shocks, brakes, always in pairs!


    Are you seriously suggesting that by not replacing something like a coil spring in pairs is a dangerous thing to do? I do agree with replacing the likes of shocks, tie rods, etc in pairs given that they are so easy and quick to change. But coils.....well if the other one is ok then why bother changing it which is exactly the situation I was in. One coil changed the other not and all is still good.


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