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Legalize Cannabis Ireland

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Comments

  • #602
    dttq
    Closed Accounts Posts: 381 ✭✭dttq


    Tym wrote: »
    So your comparing people in their struggle to affirm their love for each other as fully as possible (in their minds) to not being able to smoke weed?

    You do realise that until relatively recent decades, that homosexuality was a criminal offensive resulting in men and women who professed their love for a member of their own gender been locked up in prison? So yes, in that sense cannabis smokers are in the same predicament as homosexual men and women once were, citizens doing nobody any harm through their actions, yet criminalised and locked up for their activities.


  • #603
    dttq
    Closed Accounts Posts: 381 ✭✭dttq


    I guess one of the ironies of our civilisation is that what's essentially a poison is legal for consumption, whereas what's potentially a medicine is illegal for consumption. Pot doesn't make you puke, give you headaches or hold the potential to poison you or kill you through withdrawal like alcohol does. Also never heard of stoners coming home and beating the wife and children. The law is truly an ass at times.


  • #604
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    dttq wrote: »
    You do realise that until relatively recent decades, that homosexuality was a criminal offensive resulting in men and women who professed their love for a member of their own gender been locked up in prison? So yes, in that sense cannabis smokers are in the same predicament as homosexual men and women once were, citizens doing nobody any harm through their actions, yet criminalised and locked up for their activities.

    A homosexual is something you are, pot is something you do. They aren't comparable.


  • #605
    ScumLord
    Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    MagicSean wrote: »
    A homosexual is something you are, pot is something you do. They aren't comparable.
    He's not comparing homosexuality and using weed. He is comparing the two laws which had no basis in fact, they're not justifiable and there's no health reasons for the laws.


  • #606
    PogMoThoin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,874 ✭✭✭✭PogMoThoin


    ScumLord wrote: »
    He's not comparing homosexuality and using weed. He is comparing the two laws which had no basis in fact, they're not justifiable and there's no health reasons for the laws.

    It's sad that you've said that more than once ScumLord and yet they still come back, same old mantra, they won't listen to any of the arguments given.
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=79661274&postcount=539


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  • #607
    Jimoslimos
    Registered Users Posts: 4,930 ✭✭✭Jimoslimos


    dttq wrote: »
    I guess one of the ironies of our civilisation is that what's essentially a poison is legal for consumption, whereas what's potentially a medicine is illegal for consumption. Pot doesn't make you puke, give you headaches or hold the potential to poison you or kill you through withdrawal like alcohol does. Also never heard of stoners coming home and beating the wife and children. The law is truly an ass at times.
    Arguing that cannabis may have medicinal benefits doesn't further your argument for legalisation for recreational use. The rest are reasons for the banning of alcohol - nothing to do with cannabis.


  • #608
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    ScumLord wrote: »
    He's not comparing homosexuality and using weed. He is comparing the two laws which had no basis in fact, they're not justifiable and there's no health reasons for the laws.

    He is comparing them. The law against homosexual sex was a restriction on a basic human right. It was not introduced for health reasons, it was a result of Catholic indoctrination. The law against weed is no different to the restriction of alcohol or the banning of workplace smoking. He may as well be comparing himself to Rosa Parks.

    It's those kind of retarded arguments that will prolong the prohibition of cannabis. There are perfectly good reasons for lifting prohibition. Stick to them and stop using ridiculous arguments.


  • #609
    TheCassman
    Registered Users Posts: 60 ✭✭TheCassman


    Will be a massive contribute to our tourism sector? Your defiantly high! Ireland doesnt want a load of pot heads running around? That just gives us a bad name like Amsterdam!


  • #610
    crazy cabbage
    Registered Users Posts: 738 ✭✭✭crazy cabbage


    I am tired of pro-legalisation people taking the defensive when it comes legalisation. Lets wipe all stigma aside and pretend that it is legal. Give me one good reason (based in fact) why it should become illegal?


  • #611
    flash1080
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,017 ✭✭✭flash1080


    Does this group stand for or against the legalisation of heroin? Or does the group only have a narrow-minded aim to legalise it's members drug of choice?


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  • #612
    crazy cabbage
    Registered Users Posts: 738 ✭✭✭crazy cabbage


    MagicSean wrote: »
    He is comparing them. The law against homosexual sex was a restriction on a basic human right. It was not introduced for health reasons, it was a result of Catholic indoctrination. The law against weed is no different to the restriction of alcohol or the banning of workplace smoking. He may as well be comparing himself to Rosa Parks.

    So freewill is not a basic human right??? What i do with my freewill is none of your business (as long as it doesn't effect others freewill).

    Saying that if i take a herb that is growing in my backyard will land me in jail. How is that anything but the deprevation of freewill, which to the best of my knowledge is a basic human right.

    Yes he is compairing the laws...


  • #613
    PogMoThoin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,874 ✭✭✭✭PogMoThoin


    flash1080 wrote: »
    Does this group stand for or against the legalisation of heroin? Or does the group only have a narrow-minded aim to legalise it's members drug of choice?

    I'd legalise everything, spend the resources education and treatment.


  • #614
    Jimoslimos
    Registered Users Posts: 4,930 ✭✭✭Jimoslimos


    TheCassman wrote: »
    Will be a massive contribute to our tourism sector? Your defiantly high! Ireland doesnt want a load of pot heads running around? That just gives us a bad name like Amsterdam!
    TBH, I see both sides of that argument.

    Yes it had tourism benefits but also associated trouble, which many in the Netherlands feel they could do without, hence the proposed restrictions on coffee shops

    However, Amsterdam is a major international gateway for people and nearby Rotterdam for freight, into the rest of Europe. Therefore it will always be an attractive destination for those involved in dealing harder drugs.

    If legalised in Ireland, I doubt you would see half the amount of trouble in Dublin as Amsterdam, but you wouldn't see the same levels of tourism either.


  • #615
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    crazy cabbage wrote: »
    So freewill is not a basic human right??? What i do with my freewill is none of your business (as long as it doesn't effect others freewill).

    Saying that if i take a herb that is growing in my backyard will land me in jail. How is that anything but the deprevation of freewill, which to the best of my knowledge is a basic human right.

    Yes he is compairing the laws...

    Free will is not nor never will be absolute. Even the dumbest of the dumb can see why that will always be the case. Homosexuality is not about free will because it is not something you choose.


  • #616
    crazy cabbage
    Registered Users Posts: 738 ✭✭✭crazy cabbage


    MagicSean wrote: »
    Free will is not nor never will be absolute. Even the dumbest of the dumb can see why that will always be the case. Homosexuality is not about free will because it is not something you choose.

    Yes i can see why that is the case. i dont agree with it but i can see the point.

    Freedom will never be absolute in no argument though. Could you immagine if this debate came up in the dail and that was the only argument against. There would be uproar.

    I dont see why a plant growing in a nature should be illegal when it doesn't do any real harm.
    crazy cabbage wrote: »
    I am tired of pro-legalisation people taking the defensive when it comes legalisation. Lets wipe all stigma aside and pretend that it is legal. Give me one good reason (based in fact) why it should become illegal?
    ^^^ please


  • #617
    DjDoody
    Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭DjDoody


    flash1080 wrote: »
    Does this group stand for or against the legalisation of heroin? Or does the group only have a narrow-minded aim to legalise it's members drug of choice?

    I personally believe everything should be "legalised" even though decriminalization would be better for harder drugs such as heroine,why should anyone be able to stop me from taking what ever I want if its not hurting anyone.I love how anti legalization are so against scum and dealers but their keeping it in the perfect position for them.Anyone can become a successful dealer now,btw dealers arent all scum most I know are average low/middle class trying to earn a bit of money on the side


  • #618
    ScumLord
    Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    MagicSean wrote: »
    He is comparing them. The law against homosexual sex was a restriction on a basic human right.
    I'd say not being aloud to use cannabis is a restriction on your basic human rights. Cannabis is an amazing life experience that everyone should be able to try seeing as there's no valid reason why they shouldn't. Personally cannabis has been a huge benefit to my life.

    It was not introduced for health reasons, it was a result of Catholic indoctrination.
    You could say the same thing about cannabis actually. It was Christian pressure groups that despised all drug use and went to war with drugs in America and Americas policies then went around the world. Most religions went to war with drugs long, long ago as drugs where always viewed as being a direct channel to god in primitive religions. The modern religions didn't like their followers having direct access to god and wanted to be intermediaries, as can be seen in the way the Catholic church handled the bible for so many years in Latin so no one could directly read it and had to get religious knowledge through their local church.
    The law against weed is no different to the restriction of alcohol or the banning of workplace smoking. He may as well be comparing himself to Rosa Parks.
    It's not the same thing, those are modern reactions to confirmed health risks. Cannabis was made illegal thanks to religious fundamentalism, racism, politics and trade wars. There was never a valid reason to make cannabis illegal in the first place.
    It's those kind of retarded arguments that will prolong the prohibition of cannabis. There are perfectly good reasons for lifting prohibition. Stick to them and stop using ridiculous arguments.
    What are the perfectly good reasons as you see them? You've dismissed all the reasons put to you so far.


  • #619
    Wattle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,075 ✭✭✭Wattle


    Jimoslimos wrote: »
    TBH, I see both sides of that argument.

    Yes it had tourism benefits but also associated trouble, which many in the Netherlands feel they could do without, hence the proposed restrictions on coffee shops

    However, Amsterdam is a major international gateway for people and nearby Rotterdam for freight, into the rest of Europe. Therefore it will always be an attractive destination for those involved in dealing harder drugs.

    If legalised in Ireland, I doubt you would see half the amount of trouble in Dublin as Amsterdam, but you wouldn't see the same levels of tourism either.

    What's all this about trouble in Amsterdam? I go there three or four times a year and I've never felt threatened. I can tell you it's a lot more peaceable than Dublin is at closing time. The only trouble I've ever seen in Amsterdam is from groups of tourists on stag weekends who are drunk off their heads.


  • #620
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    ScumLord wrote: »
    I'd say not being aloud to use cannabis is a restriction on your basic human rights. Cannabis is an amazing life experience that everyone should be able to try seeing as there's no valid reason why they shouldn't. Personally cannabis has been a huge benefit to my life.

    It's not a human right according to any court I've ever heard of. Perhaps you need a reality check as to what basic human rights are because not being allowed get high is nowhere near the atrocity you think it is.
    ScumLord wrote: »
    You could say the same thing about cannabis actually. It was Christian pressure groups that despised all drug use and went to war with drugs in America and Americas policies then went around the world. Most religions went to war with drugs long, long ago as drugs where always viewed as being a direct channel to god in primitive religions. The modern religions didn't like their followers having direct access to god and wanted to be intermediaries, as can be seen in the way the Catholic church handled the bible for so many years in Latin so no one could directly read it and had to get religious knowledge through their local church.

    Maybe you could, but you claimed it was for health reasons. And then you added the law against homosexuality in as being passed for health reasons, just so you could try bring them to an even level.
    ScumLord wrote: »
    It's not the same thing, those are modern reactions to confirmed health risks. Cannabis was made illegal thanks to religious fundamentalism, racism, politics and trade wars. There was never a valid reason to make cannabis illegal in the first place.

    I wasn't referring to the reasons. I was referring to the effect of prohibition.
    ScumLord wrote: »
    What are the perfectly good reasons as you see them? You've dismissed all the reasons put to you so far.

    The main reasons would be the medicinal benefits to some serious illness, the pain relief effects, the potential revenue to te government and the damage it would do to dealers. These are the resons it will eventually be legalised to some extent. "I can do what I want" is not a valid reason at all.


  • #621
    emul8ter25
    Registered Users Posts: 209 ✭✭emul8ter25


    MagicSean wrote: »
    It's not a human right according to any court I've ever heard of. Perhaps you need a reality check as to what basic human rights are because not being allowed get high is nowhere near the atrocity you think it is.

    So you will just roll over and do whatever the government tells you, even though its people with personal agendas and different moral values deciding whats right for you, making decisions to further their own career rather than on facts?


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  • #622
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    emul8ter25 wrote: »
    So you will just roll over and do whatever the government tells you, even though its people with personal agendas and different moral values deciding whats right for you, making decisions to further their own career rather than on facts?

    That's the society we have chosen. Feel free to try and change it by going into politics or move to a country that lets you do what you want. Good luck finding one.


  • #623
    emul8ter25
    Registered Users Posts: 209 ✭✭emul8ter25


    MagicSean wrote: »
    That's the society we have chosen. Feel free to try and change it by going into politics or move to a country that lets you do what you want. Good luck finding one.

    yes, the system is broken and abused, and it will always remain that way with so many people out there with your attitude.


  • #624
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    emul8ter25 wrote: »
    yes, the system is broken and abused, and it will always remain that way with so many people out there with your attitude.

    So change it. The mechanisms are there.


  • #625
    Setun
    Registered Users Posts: 3,805 ✭✭✭Setun


    I know this thread has long gone past the post-count threshold of sensibility and left only the polarised, but as somebody who has lived in the Netherlands for the last 2 years, I can attest anecdotally that alcohol poses a far far greater risk to civil disturbances than cannabis does. Everybody knows the old Bill Hick's joke (“I have never seen two people on pot get in a fight because it is ****ing IMPOSSIBLE. "Hey, buddy!" "Hey, what?" "Ummmmmmm...." End of argument.”) - I'm sure it's already been mentioned in this thread at least once - but the humour of Hick's bit about marijuana lies in the recognition of truth. Rotterdam city center is not populated by pot-addled and befuddled amnesiac wanderers on a Friday/Saturday night, but by the usual little groups of drunken teenage girls wearing too little, the odd gang of lads acting the gob****e, and the loners who have had one tequila too many and stumbling their way to the last tram.

    The fears that legalising cannabis leads to an entire nation of stoned citizens unable to perform any act of labour is also absurdist: the Netherlands seems to get by just fine, and again from my own experience, the majority of dutch people around my age (mid-20s) do not smoke cannabis regularly, if at all, but they seem to appreciate the freedom to buy it if they feel like it, as we would enjoy the freedom to go to the local off-license and buy a shoulder of cheap vodka or a crate of piss e.g. Miller. The only thing that would worry me about legalisation of cannabis in Ireland is that as a nation it is arguable that we have an immature and unhealthy attitude towards alcohol - would cannabis get the 'respect' it deserves? Alcohol sure doesn't, in general.


  • #626
    emul8ter25
    Registered Users Posts: 209 ✭✭emul8ter25


    MagicSean wrote: »
    So change it. The mechanisms are there.

    step 1. MagicSean, please give a damn about the society you live in, rather than just accepting whatever is shoved down your throat by corrupt politicians.

    now just another few million to go.....


  • #627
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    emul8ter25 wrote: »
    step 1. MagicSean, please give a damn about the society you live in, rather than just accepting whatever is shoved down your throat by corrupt politicians.

    now just another few million to go.....

    I've done more for society that you ever will.


  • #628
    emul8ter25
    Registered Users Posts: 209 ✭✭emul8ter25


    MagicSean wrote: »
    I've done more for society that you ever will.

    Unfortunately I'm guessing it was all negative.


  • #629
    keithclancy
    Registered Users Posts: 9,222 ✭✭✭keithclancy


    Shouldn't this thread be 'Decriminalise Cannabis'

    Whats this legal craic about?


  • #630
    Gbear
    Registered Users Posts: 12,775 ✭✭✭✭Gbear


    On the one hand you've got the fairly trivial matter of people wanting to get high as should be their right. This is not an important aspect of the legislation in practice.
    This is the reason why some people want it legalised. There's a more general reason why everybody should want it legalised.

    What is much more important are the negative effects of maintaining the ban on cannabis.
    Currently, we have a system where criminals are making money out of cannabis - alot of money.
    If by banning cannabis you actually stopped everyone from using it, i'd still oppose the ban on moral grounds, but at least you'd be able to make the argument that the ends justify the means because at least the measures you were taking worked.

    In the US, where they have really strict controls over who buys alcohol and you can be jailed if you sell alcohol to minors, as well as the business you work for getting a massive fine, it is easier to get cannabis than alcohol.

    We clearly have far too lax a culture in Ireland vis-a-vis alcohol and it needs to be controlled more effectively to prevent young people drinking as much. If a shop is caught selling drink to a minor they should absolutely get the book thrown at them.
    If we did improve on that front and applied the same sort of system to cannabis (even though it's only a fraction as dangerous as alcohol) there is no logical way to argue against legalisation.

    As regards drug tourism - if we also legalised, that would be us, the Netherlands and Portugal where it would be legalised/decriminalised. Sooner or later it will reach a tipping point where the rest of europe will follow suit. If drug tourism would be a problem, it wouldn't be one we had to solve for long. In the mean time you could legislate that it requires a national ID to buy cannabis - tourists wouldn't have them.

    Getting high should not be a crime, regardless of the drug you use to do it. There is a case to be made that drugs harm society so for the time being, morally and practically, I'd be happy with only decriminalising all drugs, except cannabis, which should be legalised and regulated.


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  • #631
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    emul8ter25 wrote: »
    Unfortunately I'm guessing it was all negative.

    You are of course entitled to your opinion. hopefully the people i help probably think otherwise and their opinion matters more.


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