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The unfolding story in Tuam

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    #122
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    You're the only one equating emotion with stupidity. That's your own hangup. I mean, I'm still waiting for you to state what crime may have been committed. Incidentally, for something to be declared a crime scene there has to be an actual crime to investigate.
    So, how do you know whether there's a crime or not until you investigate?
    For the 37364th time, if a body is found in an unmarked grave do the Gardai ignore it until a crime is reported?
    BTW:
    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    Your points are all based on emotion as opposed to logic.
    That'd be you equating emotion with stupidity. Must be your hang up then, eh?


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    #123
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    You're not talking about a body in a bog. You're talking about 800 skeletons. And no, the Gardaí are not equipped to deal with that. There is about 5 people working in prefabs that make up the state pathologists office.
    This is an interesting attitude from a member of An Garda Siochana.
    The possible crime is too big we won't investigate it at all.
    I wish I could get away with that where I work whenever a big job comes along!


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    #124
    gctest50
    Registered Users Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    ..........The Gardaí are not the organisation to investigate this. They have neither the experience nor the resources.

    I see your point - a bit of help from someone used to the Einsatzgruppen type carry on would be good


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    #125
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    michael999999 wrote: »
    Judging by a few posters here, you could see how the evil treatment of kids and mothers by them satanic nuns went unpunished and unnoticed just a couple of decades ago!

    It didn't go unnoticed. It was accepted by all as normal. You're all acting like this was some conspiracy that needs to be revealed. The reality is that it was never hidden. Still not one person has stated what crime should be investigated. That's because it wasn't considered a bad thing to do at the time.

    It's like you all have a guilty conscience and think digging up the bodies will somehow bring justice. It won't. You can look down on me all you want with your insinuations and smart remarks or your little tirades. I do my part for victims of abuse regularly. My conscience is clear.


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    #126
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    gctest50 wrote: »
    I see your point - a bit of help from someone used to the Einsatzgruppen type carry on would be good

    Yes it would.


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    #127
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    Still not one person has stated what crime should be investigated.
    For the 8723462583475th time. Do the Gardai investigate or not when bodies are found dumped in unmarked graves or do they wait for a member of the public to make an allegation of a specific crime?


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    #128
    drumswan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,592 ✭✭✭drumswan


    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    I mean, I'm still waiting for you to state what crime may have been committed.
    You keep saying that.

    It is an offence to inter human bodies outside of a designated burial site without the express permission of the Minister ( LOCAL GOVERNMENT (SANITARY SERVICES) ACT, 1948 Section 44 and the PUBLIC HEALTH (IRELAND) ACT 1878 Section 162). That patch of ground is not marked as a official burial site in any records.


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    #129
    lazybones32
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,647 ✭✭✭lazybones32


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    Do the Gardai only investigate crimes that are "new to humanity" or is this yet another lame attempt at trivialisation?
    You haven't retracted your claim that there was no money to support these children who died of malnutrition either I notice. Is this more of he "full cooperation" we've come to expect?

    What crime should the Gardai investigate? I think I've asked and answered this so many times, to no avail.

    So, Dan Solo, what crime or potential crime should the Gardai investigate? Be explicit and concise.


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    #130
    lazybones32
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,647 ✭✭✭lazybones32


    Resonator75 wrote: »
    You are missing the point here, just a tiny bit.

    What point is that?


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    #131
    lazybones32
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,647 ✭✭✭lazybones32


    Resonator75 wrote: »
    Guilty of not doing any form of elementary investigation of a possible mass grave.

    Take that up with the Garda Ombudsman, not me.


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    #132
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    lazybones32 wrote: »
    So, Dan Solo, what crime or potential crime should the Gardai investigate? Be explicit and concise.
    So lazybones, it is true then that the Gardai do not investigate dumped bodies unless there is a specific criminal accusation from the public.
    Glad we cleared that up.


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    #133
    lazybones32
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,647 ✭✭✭lazybones32


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    So the question remains lazybones, do the Gardai need to investigate any human remains ever? They're all just deposited organic matter, right?

    I am unfree to respond as I would like because I attract attention from certain "moderators"...while instigators remain free.
    Yes, the Gardai need to investigate human remains that have been found.
    However, I do not think it a good use of resources to excavate, catalogue, test and rebury all bodies that could be found in Tuam if there is no reason for Gardai to think that foul-play has led to the death of anyone. If every bone is tested and matched to its medical record and the cause of death has been shown as being the one as recorded, what has been gained? Thousands of man hours and millions in resources will have been spent to achieve what? And there are possibly hundreds of these sites across the Nation.
    If after reviewing medical records, there appears to be cases of unexplained death, the Gardai will decide if it is possible and practical to exhume and conduct criminal proceedings.

    Now, feel free to twist my words into something they're not.


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    #134
    lazybones32
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,647 ✭✭✭lazybones32


    michael999999 wrote: »
    Judging by a few posters here, you could see how the evil treatment of kids and mothers by them satanic nuns went unpunished and unnoticed just a couple of decades ago!

    No, I believe in due process and judgement based on facts.
    I do not believe in immediately condemning people as murderers until as much information as possible is sourced.
    If this makes me tolerant of evil in your eyes, so be it. I pay little attention to the opinion of strangers; much less the opinion of those on some forum.


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    #135
    lazybones32
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,647 ✭✭✭lazybones32


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    For the 37364th time, if a body is found in an unmarked grave do the Gardai ignore it until a crime is reported?

    The area is known to be a burial site for over 150 years (since the Famine).


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    #136
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    lazybones32 wrote: »
    If every bone is tested and matched to its medical record and the cause of death has been shown as being the one as recorded, what has been gained? Thousands of man hours and millions in resources will have been spent to achieve what? And there are possibly hundreds of these sites across the Nation.
    Presumption there is no foul play when 800 dumped bodies are found without any investigation.
    Repeated claims that investigation would be too big so therefore should not be conducted at all.
    So, once more, what are the criteria that must be met for a dumped body to be investigated in the absence of a specific criminal allegation from a member of the public?


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    #137
    lazybones32
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,647 ✭✭✭lazybones32


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    For the 8723462583475th time. Do the Gardai investigate or not when bodies are found dumped in unmarked graves or do they wait for a member of the public to make an allegation of a specific crime?

    Must we exhume all Famine plots and pauper graves too?
    Bodies were dumped/buried in these sites and there is no markings or headstones...


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    #138
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    lazybones32 wrote: »
    The area is known to be a burial site for over 150 years (since the Famine).
    This is relevant why? If I dump a body at Glasnevin cemetery there will be no investigation, is that what you're saying?


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    #139
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    lazybones32 wrote: »
    Must we exhume all Famine plots and pauper graves too?
    Bodies were dumped/buried in these sites and there is no markings or headstones...
    Was there a famine in Ireland in the 1930s that seems to have escaped all the historians?
    What is the relevance of your continued insistence on bringing the famine into this?


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    #140
    lazybones32
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,647 ✭✭✭lazybones32


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    So lazybones, it is true then that the Gardai do not investigate dumped bodies unless there is a specific criminal accusation from the public.
    Glad we cleared that up.
    Oh man...you demand investigations but cannot understand certain English words.
    I give up!
    You have only a newspaper report telling you they were dumped. You still persist with this after it has been made clear that the bodies were interred or buried, BESIDE, not in a septic tank.
    The poor and penniless were buried together in an unmarked grave because no-one was willing to pay for a plot in a cemetery and headstone for them. Not all bodies in the Mass grave may be from the Tuam home.
    If all the children died from natural causes as stated on their death certificate- and there is no evidence yet to suggest they did - what crime has been committed?

    You know what...don't answer. Your inability to understand basic English and procedures is too frustrating to deal with. I've met special needs kids that comprehend quicker than you. And yes, that is a personal and direct insult aimed at you...getting banned will be no loss


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    #141
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    drumswan wrote: »
    You keep saying that.

    It is an offence to inter human bodies outside of a designated burial site without the express permission of the Minister ( LOCAL GOVERNMENT (SANITARY SERVICES) ACT, 1948 Section 44 and the PUBLIC HEALTH (IRELAND) ACT 1878 Section 162). That patch of ground is not marked as a official burial site in any records.

    Summary offence. Statute barred after 6 months.


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    #142
    michael999999
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,771 ✭✭✭michael999999


    You can also see how garda Wilson and mc cabe were hounded out of a job!

    The attitude of some guards in this thread is actually quite worrying. It looks like there still brainwashed by the catholic church, either that or they just don't give a ****.

    It seems to be the attitude from the commissioner down, take the money without any of the responsibility!


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    #143
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    michael999999 wrote: »
    You can also see how garda Wilson and mc cabe were hounded out of a job!

    The attitude of some guards in this thread is actually quite worrying. It looks like there still brainwashed by the catholic church, either that or they just don't give a ****.

    It seems to be the attitude from the commissioner down, take the money without any of the responsibility!

    Perhaps it's just that you don't understand the law. As I've said a number of times, all these people looking for crime scenes and bodies to be dug up have no yet been able to say what crime the crime scene would be declared for (you can't just declare a crime scene, you have to have a crime to investigate). They are looking for elementary investigation when they don't even know what it would entail. I'm still looking for an explanation as to why this grave should be investigated but ones from the famine shouldn't.

    Like I've said, people are having a tough time accepting that this was not a hidden practice and was simply seen as ok by wider society. They want someone to blame. This isn't about the victims getting justice, it's just about anger.


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    #144
    Resonator75
    Closed Accounts Posts: 258 ✭✭Resonator75


    michael999999 wrote: »
    You can also see how garda Wilson and mc cabe were hounded out of a job!

    The attitude of some guards in this thread is actually quite worrying. It looks like there still brainwashed by the catholic church, either that or they just don't give a ****.

    It seems to be the attitude from the commissioner down, take the money without any of the responsibility!


    All your gonna get here is denial, distraction, condescension and personal abuse dressed up as an argument. There is no point debating. They dont debate but repeat the same mantra no matter what you say.

    Terrifying that these may be serving Garda with this attitue, straight out of the 1950's. Exactly what is wrong with our police force.


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    #145
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    Resonator75 wrote: »
    Terrifying that these may be serving Garda with this attitue, straight out of the 1950's. Exactly what is wrong with our police force.

    Could you explain this comment? What exactly is straight out of the 50's?


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    #146
    Resonator75
    Closed Accounts Posts: 258 ✭✭Resonator75


    Denial, distraction, condescension and personal abuse dressed up as an argument.

    qft


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    #147
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Resonator75 wrote: »
    qft
    In fairness, lazybones hasn't dressed up personal abuse as anything. :D


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    #148
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    Resonator75 wrote: »
    qft

    Denial - Nothing has been denied.

    Distraction - I'm not the one bringing up bog bodies, nazis and mass influx of murderers to Tuam. I've tried to keep it focused on what it is.

    Condescension - I said you were responding with emotion instead of logic. I'm sorry if you consider that condescension.

    Personal abuse - You're the one calling people pathetic and insulting everything about them just because they don't agree with you. Look at the last few pages. I've been blamed for everything that's wrong in Ireland and the cause of abuse and violence against children not to mention someone who is not fit to be a Garda and a disgrace to everything. If that's not personal abuse I don't know what is. Where is my abuse? Saying you don't know the law and you are thinking emotionally rather than rationally? Well I hope it didn't upset you too much. I'll quote you all your abusive lines if you want.


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    #149
    Resonator75
    Closed Accounts Posts: 258 ✭✭Resonator75


    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    Denial - Nothing has been denied.

    Distraction - I'm not the one bringing up bog bodies, nazis and mass influx of murderers to Tuam. I've tried to keep it focused on what it is.

    Condescension - I said you were responding with emotion instead of logic. I'm sorry if you consider that condescension.

    Personal abuse - You're the one calling people pathetic and insulting everything about them just because they don't agree with you. Look at the last few pages. I've been blamed for everything that's wrong in Ireland and the cause of abuse and violence against children not to mention someone who is not fit to be a Garda and a disgrace to everything. If that's not personal abuse I don't know what is. Where is my abuse? Saying you don't know the law and you are thinking emotionally rather than rationally? Well I hope it didn't upset you too much. I'll quote you all your abusive lines if you want.

    Please report me then for all this abuse Ive hurled around...

    Maybe you should take a breather from this thread, you sound a bit stressed out.


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    #150
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    Resonator75 wrote: »
    Please report me then for all this abuse Ive hurled around...

    Maybe you should take a breather from this thread, you sound a bit stressed out.

    Still unable to address a single point made and responding with some personal remarks. I'll leave you to your ranting then. If you ever want to try a rational conversation based on fact then give me a shout.


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    #151
    Resonator75
    Closed Accounts Posts: 258 ✭✭Resonator75


    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    Still unable to address a single point made and responding with some personal remarks. I'll leave you to your ranting then. If you ever want to try a rational conversation based on fact then give me a shout.


    Gimme those quote where Ive abused you or anyone else, better still talk to the mods rather than hurl it about in public.

    Im blue in the face repeating the same points to you , Im not gonna start that wagon wheel again. To be fair your just repeating yourself to me so niether of us are getting anywhere , are we?


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