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Landmark ruling gives trade union rights to Gardaí

  • 17-05-2014 8:04am
    #1
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    http://www.thejournal.ie/agsi-1469207-May2014/

    So the E.U. have finally ruled in favour of Gardaí being able to organise a union and engage in collective bargaining. It remains to be seen if there will be any kind of appeal or if the government will even bother to repeal the legislative restrictions.

    I'm just wondering how people see this developing. Will we see groups like SIPTU trying to move in or will the GRA retain it's membership and switch to being a union?


Comments

  • #2
    Santa Cruz
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,126 ✭✭✭Santa Cruz


    The reason Gardai had to go to Europe was that the Government refused to allow them sit in on any pay negotiations. It was a case of negotiating with all the Public Service Unions and then calling in the Garda Associations and saying "Here lads, take it or leave it"
    Ideally a Police Authority will introduce a proper system of settling pay disputes etc.


  • #3
    apc
    Registered Users Posts: 352 ✭✭apc


    If they have any sense at all they should not engage with SIPTU etc, stay on their own


  • #4
    Dermot Illogical
    Registered Users Posts: 3,131 ✭✭✭Dermot Illogical


    apc wrote: »
    If they have any sense at all they should not engage with SIPTU etc, stay on their own

    +1. I used to be a member of SIPTU. Greatest shower of wasters. I'd be unimpressed to find myself paying money to them again.


  • #5
    carzony
    Registered Users Posts: 2,780 ✭✭✭carzony


    intresting times ahead i think..

    same story in the journal http://www.thejournal.ie/agsi-1469207-May2014/


  • #6
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    carzony wrote: »
    intresting times ahead i think..

    same story in the journal http://www.thejournal.ie/agsi-1469207-May2014/

    Oddly enough I believe it's the members of the AGSI,as Senior Officers who will find themselves being the first against whom "Industrial Action" will be directed...such as,for example,where they conspire to policies which send their subordinates out to be ridiculed in public......

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/garda-chiefs-reject-useless-segway-patrol-plea-30282722.html
    The first Garda Segways were launched amid a fanfare of publicity in December 2012 and deployed mainly around the Grafton Street pedestrian area in the city. The launch was attended by Dublin City Assistant Garda Commissioner John Twomey, who insisted Segways would help gardai monitor areas "not readily accessible to other vehicles".

    It was also claimed the scooters would be useful in improving garda "visibility", but gardai last week derided them as "totally useless", "a gimmick" and "an embarrassment". They say the Segways cannot be driven up steps or pavements, and if a garda on duty spots a crime the scooters cannot be used in pursuit. Gardai have to abandon the Segways, lock them and then pursue suspects on foot.

    Now,the issue for a good "Union Rep" would revolve around how often an Asst Commissioner is to be found out and about on his Official Segway,in comparison to an"ordinary" rank and file Garda....who's opinion should be given greater credence here ?

    Also of note here,is the willingness of the Business Interests to stump up the funding and leave it to the Gardai themselves to make best use of it...something which,in this particular case,is well open to question !! :o


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



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  • #7
    Rachel Warm Ranch
    Posts: 0 ✭ Rachel Warm Ranch


    AlekSmart wrote: »
    Oddly enough I believe it's the members of the AGSI,as Senior Officers who will find themselves being the first against whom "Industrial Action" will be directed...such as,for example,where they conspire to policies which send their subordinates out to be ridiculed in public......

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/garda-chiefs-reject-useless-segway-patrol-plea-30282722.html



    Now,the issue for a good "Union Rep" would revolve around how often an Asst Commissioner is to be found out and about on his Official Segway,in comparison to an"ordinary" rank and file Garda....who's opinion should be given greater credence here ?

    Also of note here,is the willingness of the Business Interests to stump up the funding and leave it to the Gardai themselves to make best use of it...something which,in this particular case,is well open to question !! :o

    AGSI is the Association of Garda Sergeants and Inspectors.


  • #8
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    foreign wrote: »
    AGSI is the Association of Garda Sergeants and Inspectors.

    Yep...Inspector O Clouseau- "Get them Gardai out on those expensive segways Sergeant"

    Sergeant O Craic- "Sorry Sir ...they wont go "

    Inspector O C....."Nonsense !!...are they on strike or what ?"

    Sergeant O Craic....."Thats what they say Sir "

    "Stailc ar Anseo"

    So yep,the AGSI members will most likely be the first port of call in the new process ?


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • #9
    sdanseo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,233 ✭✭✭sdanseo


    To essentially leave the state without a policing capability is not far short of irresponsible, whatever your gripe. I'm very much in favour of better pay and conditions for Guards, not least because it's a potential career later on, but I dunno about police striking. Fair enough they could simply all catch the blue flu if it remained banned, but to legitimise it sounds dodgy.

    Are the DF being briefed as we speak to put martial law in place at 7 days' notice? :rolleyes:


  • #10
    Rachel Warm Ranch
    Posts: 0 ✭ Rachel Warm Ranch


    sdeire wrote: »
    To essentially leave the state without a policing capability is not far short of irresponsible, whatever your gripe. I'm very much in favour of better pay and conditions for Guards, not least because it's a potential career later on, but I dunno about police striking. Fair enough they could simply all catch the blue flu if it remained banned, but to legitimise it sounds dodgy.

    Are the DF being briefed as we speak to put martial law in place at 7 days' notice? :rolleyes:

    So just because we join AGS we shouldn't have the rights that the rest of the people of the country have?

    Everybody is focused on the right to strike but this gives us a right to sit at the negotiating table when it comes to OUR pay and conditions. Not sitting in a side room and being told this is what you are getting.

    And if there was a strike you can be sure that there will be emergency cover put in place.


  • #11
    Luca Inexpensive Violist
    Posts: 0 ✭ Luca Inexpensive Violist


    Basically, there will be strikes in the next 5,10,20 years. Get used to the fact.

    Looking at IMPACT's current Aer Lingus hours whinge, i think it's a bad thing for the country as a whole, but an unavoidable one as everyone has the right to say "I'm not up for this."


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  • #12
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    Luca Inexpensive Violist wrote: »
    Basically, there will be strikes in the next 5,10,20 years. Get used to the fact.

    Looking at IMPACT's current Aer Lingus hours whinge, i think it's a bad thing for the country as a whole, but an unavoidable one as everyone has the right to say "I'm not up for this."

    Isn't Aer Lingus ignoring the recommendations of the LRC?


  • #13
    TheNog
    Registered Users Posts: 4,160 ✭✭✭TheNog


    Rachel Warm Ranch wrote: »
    Everybody is focused on the right to strike but this gives us a right to sit at the negotiating table when it comes to OUR pay and conditions. Not sitting in a side room and being told this is what you are getting.
    .

    Not a truer word said. The right to strike although is important it is not the most important. The ability to negotiate I feel is the most important to members of AGS.

    However if in the future it is decided that we strike (I hope we never do) but it will give that strike credibility I feel in other peoples eye rather than going sick.


  • #14
    audidiesel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 318 ✭✭audidiesel


    The right to negotiate is vitally important and one which we have always been denied. Union status will mean changes down the line. The government will no longer be able to heave changes on us with no comeback whatsoever. I'm talking about things like pay, conditions, equipment, rosters etc.

    For the first time the Gardai will have some teeth of their own. Government may get a land when they realise this. I'm delighted by that fact.Also if all we hear is public opinion is against us and scandals etc, then more and more members would see less downside in potential industrial action in the future.


  • #15
    Luca Inexpensive Violist
    Posts: 0 ✭ Luca Inexpensive Violist


    audidiesel wrote: »
    The right to negotiate is vitally important and one which we have always been denied. Union status will mean changes down the line. The government will no longer be able to heave changes on us with no comeback whatsoever. I'm talking about things like pay, conditions, equipment, rosters etc.

    For the first time the Gardai will have some teeth of their own. Government may get a land when they realise this. I'm delighted by that fact.Also if all we hear is public opinion is against us and scandals etc, then more and more members would see less downside in potential industrial action in the future.

    Translation: F*ck the rest of you, if we want it, we will f*cking strike for it. Get f*cking used to it.


  • #16
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    Luca Inexpensive Violist wrote: »
    Translation: F*ck the rest of you

    The rest of who?


  • #17
    audidiesel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 318 ✭✭audidiesel


    Luca Inexpensive Violist wrote: »
    Translation: F*ck the rest of you, if we want it, we will f*cking strike for it. Get f*cking used to it.

    Well it certainly beats the way it's been for us for years.

    F*ck ye, do as ye are told. Don't even dare to question anything or we will make it worse. Have second rate equipment. Work in clapped out cars that were never suitable. Ignore the fact that the building your in could fall down. Work these hours now. From now on have one full weekend off every nine weekends. No say in it. After 5pm and at weekends take over damn nearly every departments job in the state from social worker to dog warden. Just without training for these positions.

    So i make no apologies for saying enough is enough. Be careful though if you fall off that high horse on the weekend tis us that will get the call!


  • #18
    Santa Cruz
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,126 ✭✭✭Santa Cruz


    Luca Inexpensive Violist wrote: »
    Translation: F*ck the rest of you, if we want it, we will f*cking strike for it. Get f*cking used to it.


    Workers across the country get no benefit from striking. But just because you are a worker doesn't mean the employer can **** you about. If the Government had negotiated with the Gardaí as they did with every other group the right to strike would not have been sought. Use the Gardaí to defend the State against the Provisional IRA etc. but tell them **** off when they job is done.


  • #19
    Luca Inexpensive Violist
    Posts: 0 ✭ Luca Inexpensive Violist


    Definitely not saying it's a bad thing or unnecessary, I 'm just saying a strike is an action of "number one looking after number one, because no one else will."

    Everyone who's not number one, whether they caused it or not, will be getting the slap on the face. The difference is between those who understand why they're getting a slap in the face aimed at the **** beside them that caused it, and those who think the slap in the face is from a tantrumming child who needs a bigger slap to shut them up.

    Where I stand always depends on the issue. If I get the slap on the face because a worker is losing his job needlessly, I'll stand and take it. If I get the slap on the face because of something ridiculous like a demand for triple time pay for using black pens instead of blue pens, I'll be in camp two.

    Right now, if the guard union slaps me in the face while it swipes at the Govt, I'll understand. It'll sting, but I'll understand.


  • #20
    Shady Tady
    Registered Users Posts: 543 ✭✭✭Shady Tady


    Luca Inexpensive Violist wrote: »
    Definitely not saying it's a bad thing or unnecessary, I 'm just saying a strike is an action of "number one looking after number one, because no one else will."

    Everyone who's not number one, whether they caused it or not, will be getting the slap on the face. The difference is between those who understand why they're getting a slap in the face aimed at the **** beside them that caused it, and those who think the slap in the face is from a tantrumming child who needs a bigger slap to shut them up.

    Where I stand always depends on the issue. If I get the slap on the face because a worker is losing his job needlessly, I'll stand and take it. If I get the slap on the face because of something ridiculous like a demand for triple time pay for using black pens instead of blue pens, I'll be in camp two.

    Right now, if the guard union slaps me in the face while it swipes at the Govt, I'll understand. It'll sting, but I'll understand.

    You know what they say? If you get a slap in the face turn the other cheek!


  • #21
    Luca Inexpensive Violist
    Posts: 0 ✭ Luca Inexpensive Violist


    Shady Tady wrote: »
    You know what they say? If you get a slap in the face turn the other cheek!

    You know that means "show me the other one, that's getting a belt too!", right?

    So you're saying "whether you deserve it or not, get ready, cos we will hit you again and again and again and again until we get what we want."

    Okayyyyy then...............


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  • #22
    Shady Tady
    Registered Users Posts: 543 ✭✭✭Shady Tady


    Luca Inexpensive Violist wrote: »
    You know that means "show me the other one, that's getting a belt too!", right?

    And then turn back the original cheek and so on!


  • #23
    Shady Tady
    Registered Users Posts: 543 ✭✭✭Shady Tady


    Luca Inexpensive Violist wrote: »
    You know that means "show me the other one, that's getting a belt too!", right?

    So you're saying "whether you deserve it or not, get ready, cos we will hit you again and again and again and again until we get what we want."

    Okayyyyy then...............

    I'm sure many of the rights you have as a worker were so called slaps to the government and your employer! Why not give them back so?


  • #24
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    Luca Inexpensive Violist wrote: »
    You know that means "show me the other one, that's getting a belt too!", right?

    So you're saying "whether you deserve it or not, get ready, cos we will hit you again and again and again and again until we get what we want."

    Okayyyyy then...............

    No Garda wants to strike. They just want to get on with their job in safety and they want the protections of labour laws.

    Having said that, I'd be surprised if any Garda will feel bad about striking. It's not like the public has given the force much support or encouragement. Quite the opposite. The media and general public have dived on every opportunity to belittle and insult Gardaí whenever they could. Some penalty points get written off and the country goes into uproar. Where is the uproar about the number of Gardaí assaulted each day, the number of patrol cars unfit for police work, the uniform that's unfit for purpose or any of the other issues which has the force in shambles?

    Every time a Garda complains they get the stock reply of "it's what you signed up for" or "it's part of the job". Well it isn't. If a strike is what is needed to bring attention to this stuff then so be it.


  • #25
    Luca Inexpensive Violist
    Posts: 0 ✭ Luca Inexpensive Violist


    Soooo the public's been getting an easy ride, they need to support you, and if they don't learn that lesson, you need to teach them.........

    Sounds like something a man with a baton would say to a wife "out of line". Nice.

    Edit: that's *not* to belittle the genuine issues you bring up. They are genuine and they do need attention. I'm just drawing attention that strikes are shotguns. Period. Whether a shotgun or a syringe is needed, using a shotgun does a shotgun job. Total destruction.

    Sometimes you *need* total destruction. But don't be duped into thinking it's anything less than total destruction.


  • #26
    Shady Tady
    Registered Users Posts: 543 ✭✭✭Shady Tady


    Luca Inexpensive Violist wrote: »
    Soooo the public's been getting an easy ride, they need to support you, and if they don't learn that lesson, you need to teach them.........

    Sounds like something a man with a baton would say to a wife "out of line". Nice.

    The mask is slipping! Pathetic


  • #27
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    Luca Inexpensive Violist wrote: »
    Soooo the public's been getting an easy ride, they need to support you, and if they don't learn that lesson, you need to teach them.........

    Sounds like something a man with a baton would say to a wife "out of line". Nice.

    I guess I'll have to defer to your judgement on that. I'm generally the fella arresting that man.


  • #28
    Luca Inexpensive Violist
    Posts: 0 ✭ Luca Inexpensive Violist


    Shady Tady wrote: »
    The mask is slipping! Pathetic

    To respond to this kind of thing I'd have to drag this miles off topic & it'd get nasty. Not going to do it. I've said my piece that strikes are a blunt instrument, hitting the guilty & innocent in the face exactly the same, & there's no point getting riled up on personalities. I don't respond to strong-arm tactics.

    Cu Chullainn, I don't consider you anything other than a Guard with valid issues that need solutions. You would have my support in striking for *some* of them, and my support for other types of industrial action for the rest of them.

    I'm going to leave it there.


  • #29
    Shady Tady
    Registered Users Posts: 543 ✭✭✭Shady Tady


    Luca Inexpensive Violist wrote: »
    To respond to this kind of thing I'd have to drag this miles off topic & it'd get nasty. Not going to do it. I've said my piece that strikes are a blunt instrument, hitting the guilty & innocent in the face exactly the same, & there's no point getting riled up on personalities. I don't respond to strong-arm tactics.

    Cu Chullainn, I don't consider you anything other than a Guard with valid issues that need solutions. You would have my support in striking for *some* of them, and my support for other types of industrial action for the rest of them.

    I'm going to leave it there.

    Ah sure we're all wife beaters, go on and get nasty we deserve it


  • #30
    Shield
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Help & Feedback Category Moderators Posts: 9,631 CMod ✭✭✭✭Shield


    Shady Tady wrote: »
    Ah sure we're all wife beaters, go on and get nasty we deserve it

    Infracted for trolling.

    Please no comments on this post, or on the infraction. Let's have one more go at getting this back on-topic. If we can't, then it'll be closed.

    Shield.


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