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BOOKS - discussions, reviews and recommendations

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2 antitheist


    Hi there,

    I'm new here, so I don't really know what the normal ettiquette for posting is. Anway, I had a good laugh reading through the posts in this thread, and I'm delighted to see a lot of the books I love recommended. Here's my two cents for whatever it's worth.

    I know Dawkins has been recommended here before, but his books really are fantastic. For someone new to the popular science scene I highly recommand River out of Eden. But they're all brilliant.

    For scepticism, Daniel Dennett's Consciousness Explained and Susan Blackmore's The Meme Machine are guaranteed to take you by surprise. If these books don't make you question some of your deepest assumptions then... I dunno, you must be dead or something.

    Re. The Emporer's New Clothes I wouldn't be quite so harsh about it. I completely disagree with the thesis the book is defending, but it's still quite well written and well argued. (Even if it is wrong!) My point is, if all psuedoscientists had to work that hard to defend their views then there would be a lot less nonsense out there.

    Re. Meatproduct's endorsement of Milton's Shattering The Myths Of Darwinism, I'm just wondering, what were your views on evolution before you read Milton? I know I had no idea what evolution is all about before I read Dawkins (not that I have any idea now, but I like to think I'm slightly less misinformed). I can't understand how anyone can read a well structured explanation of evolution and still disagree with it... unless of course you already want to disgree with it.

    cheers,
    jerome


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2 antitheist


    Sorry about the multiple posts... new software, unfamiliar interface, disabled by abject idiocy etc.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,386 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch




  • Registered Users Posts: 424 ✭✭Obni


    Foucault's Pendulum by Umberto Eco.

    Ideal for anyone looking for gift ideas for the Da Vinci Code fan in their life.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 137 ✭✭Yossie


    A People’s History of Science – Clifford D. Conner

    Connor attempts to write a history of science that is; of the people, by the people and for the people. He makes it clear from the start that he intends to right the wrongs of the “Great Men” theory that dominates the history of science, a subject which is usually more biography than history.

    In the book “science is understood in the fundamental sense of knowledge of nature…”, this allows Connor an exceptionally wide and loose definition. So much so, that essentially any “knowledge of nature” is scientific knowledge and any trial-and-error process is scientific experimentation. Also for Conner, science and technology are two sides of the same coin; with science having to answer for both, as well as answering for anyone who claims to act in the name of science: A list that covers everybody from witch-hunters and blood-letting surgeons to Nazi-eugenicists and “Big Phrama” companies.

    If you are under the illusion that all knowledge of nature and/or science originated through the intellectual labour of the easily identifiable “Great Gentlemen Geniuses” and that all this knowledge was hermetically sealed from history, culture, trade and society; then this book will disavow you of that dubious belief. It will also put you straight on the fact that the great civilisations, borrowed, stole, violently extracted, shared, adapted, developed, lost, destroyed and contributed to the knowledge of previous, as well as contemporary, civilisations from all over the globe. This process did not occur via linear incremental developments or stages. These two facts mean it makes no sense to portion out how much any one culture contributed to “knowledge” in a sectarian way. Admittedly, there is the habit in the “the west” to be heavily Eurocentric, identifying the “Ancients” as of only Greek or Roman origin: Something, which might be explained just as much by timeline, geographical position and the abundance of historical material they left us, as by imperial prejudice. These topics are the focus of the better earlier chapters, which contain some nice examples and interesting cases.

    There was clearly no heroic Prometheus that liberated us humans from our ignorance. Conner shows that our collective knowledge of nature began and grew through the hard-won discoveries of thousands of generations of pre-historic people going about their lives, interacting with nature in practical day-to-day ways. Connor pays a well deserved and fitting tribute to these and their descendant artisans, miners, sailors, farmers, weavers, healers, gatherers, etc. Nobody should, and I believe nobody does, deny these their place as the foundation in the pyramid of giants “standing on the shoulders of giants”. The only difficulty comes when one defines their knowledge and ways of obtaining that knowledge as scientific, like Connor does, which simply is too far removed from our modern understanding of the word. Science did not and could not exist at these times.

    In the later dodgier chapters, the author’s political agenda fizzes up more often and more vigorously than we see a historically balanced view. He suffers from severe class-conflict myopia, resulting in him seeing only a “their science” and an “our science”. His “their science” is elitist, supportive of the political status quo, morally corrupt and socially irresponsible where his “our science” is always, by the people, always challenging the elite’s orthodoxy, always moral and socially responsible. Science, for him, is imposed from above because it suits the ruling-class not because it wins out as a fair reflection of reality. Indeed on Newton he suggests, “Margaret Jacob has argued persuasively that Newtonianism became the dominant scientific paradigm in England in the late seventeenth century not primarily as a result of its truth content but because it was an integral element of the ideology of the social class that came out on top in the long revolutionary struggle that erupted in the 1640s and culminated in the Glorious revolution of 1688.”

    Creating this false dichotomy within science leads to bad histories of science and even worse science. I wouldn’t deny that some things that were given the name science had all of those aforementioned negative attributes, or that these were supported by some of the scientific leading lights of the time and for the worst class biased reasons. I would only claim that science ultimately sees only objective reality as the final adjudicator. The overall flow of science, despite undertows and eddy currents heading in many different regressive and biased directions, is towards a better understanding of the workings of the world. Connor makes much of these counter-flows, as do some relativists, and claim it shows science as a purely malleable tool of the ruling class, essentially arguing that “he who pays the piper calls the tune”. What is even more worrying than this, is the suggestion that we should try for a “more just” world were science simply becomes subservient to will of “the people”.

    The means of scientific knowledge production in the hands of “the people” is a noble cause, but the fact remains that despite whoever controls the means of that production, Nature will remain value-free. Gravity, evolution, etc cannot be deconstructed, or negotiated or decided on by consensus. The democratisation of scientific knowledge is not possible, any attempt to “steer” the knowledge itself leads only to bad science and factures between theory and reality.

    To meaningfully contribute to science, a high-level of specialised knowledge is required, and in this way science can be understood to be an elitist pursuit. Importantly though, this will remain the reality whether white middle-class men, or women/Muslims/Africans, etc., carry out that research. Scientists, I would argue, would heartily welcome “the people’s” control over the means of production as well as a vast increase in the number of these groups working as scientists, maybe then we would get faster solutions to some of the world’s problems rather than lots of new and improved flavours of cola; but I don’t believe these changes would influence the nature of the acquired scientific knowledge.

    Science has been a powerful liberating force, not just in terms of the technological fruit that improves the quality of people’s lives, freeing us to pursue lives that more meaningful, but also because it has and can help free us from all forms of superstition.

    There is no denying that the public are increasingly alienated from science in all its forms. But a good case could be made that they are only as alienated and in the same way from fine art, literature, medicine, the state, politics and, importantly, real power. The origin of this alienation has a wider deeper basis and requires changes that science can only but be a help with, something which Conner and the left generally fails to recognise.

    All or any comments are welcome. (Sorry it’s so bleedin’ long!)


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9 PCTHUG


    I know this is an old thread but for anyone stopping by, its a good idea to read
    The Borderlands of Science: Where Sense Meets Nonsense- Micheal Shermer

    Why People Believe Weird Things: Pseudoscience, Superstition, and Other Confusions of Our Time -Shermer (again)

    Flim Flam - James Randi

    The Science of Good and Evil: Why People Cheat, Gossip, Care, Share, and Follow the Golden Rule - Shermer (Again, starting to notice a pattern?)

    Inevitable Illusions: How Mistakes of Reason Rule Our Mind - Massimo Piattelli-Palmarini

    Did Adam and Eve Have Navels?: Debunking Pseudoscience- Micheal Gardener

    Bad Astronomy: Misconceptions and Misuses Revealed, from Astrology to the Moon Landing Hoax - Phil Plait (in fact I would recommend any of the Bad Science series of books)

    Chaos- John Gleich

    The Kiwi's Egg: Charles Darwin and Natural Selection - David Quammen

    There are so many others I could name but many will require further reading to understand the concepts they express. I would echo the other posters in recomending John Gribben as a superb science writer as well as Dawkins ( go for "The Ancestor's Tale") and the remarkable Carl Sagan and Richard Feynman (any of their work really)

    However it is important that people do not shut away the likes of Milton (mentioned above) I would recommend you read this book together with James Behe's "Darwins Black Box" and then search for the answers to the problems they bring up (they are out there and easily found in the case of Dr Behe), but and this is important do NOT buy these books as when you do you will most likely want your money back and that just causes undue stress. Instead go a loan them from a library these guys have not done enough work to justify giving them your money:D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,013 ✭✭✭kincsem


    The Promise Of Sleep by William C Dement

    A Stanford professor, and sleep researcher of forty years. Most of us know little of what goes on in that one-third of our lives. The man observed "rapid eye movement" and coined the phrase (now shortened to REM). What would the rock group REM be called if he didn't record his observations? :)

    Drink driving .... dangerous. Drink driving plus sleep deprivation ..... five times as dangerous.

    Also, how to know if you are getting enough sleep, and how to fix it.

    I tried to explain a few things on the Paranormal forum (sleep/dream disorders described/explained in The Promise Of Sleep, that some people think are paranormal) but got a moderator message asking me to stop.

    It's an intersting read.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,949 ✭✭✭Tim Robbins


    On logic:

    Graham Priest's, Logic: A very short Introduction is very good.

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Logic-Very-Short-Introduction-Introductions/dp/0192893203/ref=sr_1_1/203-3731468-8208702?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1175763190&sr=8-1

    Also just finished 'Moral Minds', not bad - Dawkins referenced it in 'The God Delusion'.
    I think it would make an excellant documentary.

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Moral-Minds-Science-Temptation-Control/dp/0316728152/ref=sr_1_2/203-3731468-8208702?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1175763419&sr=1-2


  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 3,550 Mod ✭✭✭✭Myksyk


    kincsem wrote:
    I tried to explain a few things on the Paranormal forum (sleep/dream disorders described/explained in The Promise Of Sleep, that some people think are paranormal) but got a moderator message asking me to stop.

    Unsurprising ... but sad nonetheless :rolleyes:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 112 ✭✭skeptic griggsy


    I recommend "Arguing for Atheism,""Arguing for Gods," "God, Freedom and Immortality,''The Miracle of Theism," The Atheist Debater's Handbook" and books by George Smith and Michael Martin. Some of this matter is hard to read.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 75 ✭✭fictionaire


    Hi All,

    I am new to this forum site, but I would like to get peoples skeptics view of what Prof. Carrol Quigley laid out in his two major works:
    • Tragedy and Hope: A History of the World in Our Time (1966) ISBN 0-945001-10-X
    • The Anglo-American Establishment (1982) ISBN 0-945001-01-0

    If you have read any of these books, please post a comment.

    Thanks.
    f


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 481 ✭✭casey212


    Hi All,

    I am new to this forum site, but I would like to get peoples skeptics view of what Prof. Carrol Quigley laid out in his two major works:
    • Tragedy and Hope: A History of the World in Our Time (1966) ISBN 0-945001-10-X
    • The Anglo-American Establishment (1982) ISBN 0-945001-01-0

    If you have read any of these books, please post a comment.

    Thanks.
    f



    These books are excellent. Go to scribd.com and you can get them for free.
    Quigley lays out the framework for the future, for those willing to look that is.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 75 ✭✭fictionaire


    I agree, I am about half way through The Anglo-American Establishment and it is eye opening stuff!

    Highly recommended indeed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,949 ✭✭✭Tim Robbins


    casey212 wrote: »
    These books are excellent. Go to scribd.com and you can get them for free.
    Quigley lays out the framework for the future, for those willing to look that is.

    Are they note a bit old? surely there have been numerous changes to geo politics since 1982?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 75 ✭✭fictionaire


    Are they note a bit old? surely there have been numerous changes to geo politics since 1982?

    Not at all. Its a history of the big players on the world stage. There is plenty of examples of how governments and non-governmental supra organisations operate. From that point of view its very important as it gives an insight to what is going on behind the scenes in todays world. Since they are the same families.

    These books are very important as they are from an insider so to speak. The topics he covers are esoteric in so far as they are not widely known even by political students today. Some of what he writes would be labeled in as conspiracy theory today. However, this is not the case given his career and who he influenced.

    A vast amount can be learned from reading his books, dry as they can be sometimes.


  • Registered Users Posts: 345 ✭✭Gibs


    excellent new book called "Trick or Treatment" written by Professor Edzard Ernst, Professor of Complementary medicine in UK (and scourge of the quack world). It's an evidence based look at most complementary medicine approaches. Am halfway through and really enjoying it!

    Here's a link and here's a review


  • Registered Users Posts: 396 ✭✭Ronanc1


    excellent new book called "Trick or Treatment" written by Professor Edzard Ernst, Professor of Complementary medicine in UK (and scourge of the quack world). It's an evidence based look at most complementary medicine approaches. Am halfway through and really enjoying it!

    Funnily enough i bought that one the other day have yet to start it though, i bought it after reading ben goldacres "bad science" whch id highly recommend its funny and informative


  • Registered Users Posts: 741 ✭✭✭therewillbe


    Can anyone recommend a book in relation to the Balkans war back in the 90s ?Thanks a lot.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,826 ✭✭✭Anouilh


    "The Dark Fields", by Alan Glynn. A noir thriller, set in New York.

    Excellent...

    http://lounge.techfocus.net/showpost.php?p=361809&postcount=285


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,361 ✭✭✭Nodferatu


    I Recommend:


    The Alchemist - By: Paulo Coelho

    Carter Beats The Devil - By: Glen David Gold

    Dracula - By: Bram Stoker

    *currently Reading* ... World War Z - By Max Brooks


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,105 ✭✭✭beano345


    "cosmos" by carl sagan

    "thus spoke zarathustra" by nietzsche

    "1984" by orwell is pretty good too!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,459 ✭✭✭cozar


    any interesting books on the israeli conflict. maybe a concise history to it going back 2 WW2 but easy to follow. just always had an interest in Israel and what has happened there dont know why have only been there once and only for a short time.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,386 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    cozar wrote: »
    any interesting books on the israeli conflict.
    I'd recommend Robert Fisk's The Great War for Civilisation: The Conquest of the Middle East which places the Arab-Israeli conflict in its wider perspective:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_War_for_Civilisation:_The_Conquest_of_the_Middle_East

    But be warned -- Fisk is not afraid to apportion blame where he feels it is due, something for which his monumental and unforgettable Pity the Nation concerning the civil war in Lebanon, is well known.

    People who support Israel's territorial policies generally disapprove of Fisk and his scrupulous attention to detail.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,459 ✭✭✭cozar


    robindch wrote: »
    I'd recommend Robert Fisk's The Great War for Civilisation: The Conquest of the Middle East which places the Arab-Israeli conflict in its wider perspective:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_War_for_Civilisation:_The_Conquest_of_the_Middle_East

    But be warned -- Fisk is not afraid to apportion blame where he feels it is due, something for which his monumental and unforgettable Pity the Nation concerning the civil war in Lebanon, is well known.

    People who support Israel's territorial policies generally disapprove of Fisk and his scrupulous attention to detail.

    thanks for that will give it a go. i split down the middle on this conflict, thought if i read up more on it i might have a more decisive opinion, its a very difficult one, very like irish situation in the past i think.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,459 ✭✭✭cozar


    cozar wrote: »
    thanks for that will give it a go. i split down the middle on this conflict, thought if i read up more on it i might have a more decisive opinion, its a very difficult one, very like irish situation in the past i think.
    thanks for this great recommendation, cant put it down. finding his thoughts on 9/11 just amazing, his chapter on this is called "why" and he is right in saying that no one asked Why did it happen. Excellent.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,386 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Glad you enjoyed it :)

    Here's Fisky talking about Middle Eastern politics and the book. The six videos are a bit long at 90 minutes, but they are worth the time:



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 52 ✭✭ifaptwohanded


    Short and brief, Can anyone recommend a book on assertiveness?


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