[Godge]

Originally Posted by SaoriseBiker

I'd doubt if Adams will be in any future Irish govt as I cannot see SF in govt down here for another 8/10 years, though when they are in govt it will be as the majority partner, but time will only tell. As for letting "the British worry about the character of their politicians" well clearly through the actions of the Brit dirty tricks dept/SAS/UVF etc the British have very many allegations to answer to down here* but you only apply your selectively morality to the actions of those in Sinn Fein.

* http://www.dublinmonaghanbombings.org/

(" I wouldn't be asked to vote for any of the others. " Then who would you vote for by any chance ?? )

Hmmm, isn't this post the kernel of the problem for SinnFein when it comes to turning opinion poll gains into true electoral success. The main message of Sinn Fein is that we have moved on from the past and that what we did back then or who we are doesn't matter. However, this message comes unstuck under the pressure of an election campaign and SF supporters, apologists and politicians revert to the politics of the past and drag allegations of what the British army/government/loyalists/UDA/UVF/unionists did in the past into the debate. The neutrals watching conclude again that the leopard's spot are indeed unchanged and change their mind before casting ballot and SF's poll positions are not reflected in their electoral outcome.

Until SF supporters can come on message boards like this and on TV and radio and debate the issues of the day in Ireland without resorting to referencing the northern conflict then they will continue to have difficulty converting opinion poll sympathy between elections into actual real electoral gains.

[SaoriseBiker]

Originally Posted by Godge

Hmmm, isn't this post the kernel of the problem for SinnFein when it comes to turning opinion poll gains into true electoral success. The main message of Sinn Fein is that we have moved on from the past and that what we did back then or who we are doesn't matter. However, this message comes unstuck under the pressure of an election campaign and SF supporters, apologists and politicians revert to the politics of the past and drag allegations of what the British army/government/loyalists/UDA/UVF/unionists did in the past into the debate. The neutrals watching conclude again that the leopard's spot are indeed unchanged and change their mind before casting ballot and SF's poll positions are not reflected in their electoral outcome.

Until SF supporters can come on message boards like this and on TV and radio and debate the issues of the day in Ireland without resorting to referencing the northern conflict then they will continue to have difficulty converting opinion poll sympathy between elections into actual real electoral gains.

Grasping at straws matey you'll see in the council and Euro elections how SF will convert it's poll positions into electoral gain Like I stated earlier in a post, even the Irish Times is getting tired of the Gerry Adams eat my pet hamster line when ' Inda ' and co are challenged in the Dail by SF.

And if you and others are so worried about SF's past, how come you don't apply the same concern to Gilmore, Rabbitte, Kathleen Lynch and their old comrades in the Offical IRA/Workers Party ?

[Godge]

Originally Posted by SaoriseBiker

Grasping at straws matey you'll see in the council and Euro elections how SF will convert it's poll positions into electoral gain Like I stated earlier in a post, even the Irish Times is getting tired of the Gerry Adams eat my pet hamster line when ' Inda ' and co are challenged in the Dail by SF.

And if you and others are so worried about SF's past, how come you don't apply the same concern to Gilmore, Rabbitte, Kathleen Lynch and their old comrades in the Offical IRA/Workers Party ?

Council and Euro elections don't matter. If they did, Comrade Joe would have stayed in Europe.

Some of us are old enough never to forget about Gerry Adams and his ilk.

[Thinkingaboutit]

Thank God that that the Fianna Fail: the Irish Pirate Party remain at 16%. They might think 'we all partied,' but they are to blame for the particular savagery in Ireland of worldwide debt induced stagnation. Sinn Fein might be one of the few political parties that could get money from banks rather than have to give it large quantities (sorry bad joke), but generally they seem to peddle a socialist economic vision that has failed in Cuba or Venezuela or anywhere. Maybe that is beginning to change, but I have yet to see it. A high proportion of independents are of the traditional gombeen sort. Mick Wallace or Michael Lowry remain highly representative of that lot. Fine Gael are dully implementing what they decried in opposition. Any deals to relief the burden a little, don't hide that. Labour are the party of the Public Sector, something with too big a size for this small open economy. If Barack Obama decided to modify US tax policy and has a cooperate houses of Congress, for his next four years, all these MNC headquarters would be finished.

We can take nothing for granted, and we have a dreadful political class who have shown they cannot cope with crises.

[SaoriseBiker]

Originally Posted by Godge

Council and Euro elections don't matter. If they did, Comrade Joe would have stayed in Europe.

Some of us are old enough never to forget about Gerry Adams and his ilk.

" Council and Euro elections don't matter " But you can forget about Gilmore, Rabbitte and Lynch's friends though and the servile pandering of FG/LAB/FF to the British and unionist murder gangs throughout the troubles.

[SaoriseBiker]

Originally Posted by Thinkingaboutit

Thank God that that the Fianna Fail: the Irish Pirate Party remain at 16%. They might think 'we all partied,' but they are to blame for the particular savagery in Ireland of worldwide debt induced stagnation. Sinn Fein might be one of the few political parties that could get money from banks rather than have to give it large quantities (sorry bad joke), but generally they seem to peddle a socialist economic vision that has failed in Cuba or Venezuela or anywhere. Maybe that is beginning to change, but I have yet to see it. A high proportion of independents are of the traditional gombeen sort. Mick Wallace or Michael Lowry remain highly representative of that lot. Fine Gael are dully implementing what they decried in opposition. Any deals to relief the burden a little, don't hide that. Labour are the party of the Public Sector, something with too big a size for this small open economy. If Barack Obama decided to modify US tax policy and has a cooperate houses of Congress, for his next four years, all these MNC headquarters would be finished.

We can take nothing for granted, and we have a dreadful political class who have shown they cannot cope with crises.

As someone once said, it must feel starange for SFers to go into a bank without a balaclava on As for Sinn Fein's socialist vision, more Denmark or Sweden. But of course the capitalist model has been an outstanding success .e.g. Greece, Iceland, Ireland, Portugal not to mention that utopia that was bankrupt in the mid 70's and had to ask the IMF to bail them out, Britain !!!!

[Godge]

Originally Posted by SaoriseBiker

" Council and Euro elections don't matter " But you can forget about Gilmore, Rabbitte and Lynch's friends though and the servile pandering of FG/LAB/FF to the British and unionist murder gangs throughout the troubles.

"the servile pandering of FG/LAB/FF to the British and unionist murder gangs throughout the troubles" - that is an opinion, not a fact.

The involvement of the SF/IRA in murder is a fact, not an opinion.

I find it very easy to differentiate between the two.

Going back on-topic, the point I have made already in this thread is that when the heat is on SF politicians/supporters/sympathisers they retreat back to the "wrap the green flag round me and aren't the Brits to blame" type politics. When this happens in election campaigns, they lose votes and the other parties capitalise and the SF poll rating drops.

The exception will be the next local and European elections which will be a protest vote against the "politics of austerity". You will see all kinds of weird and wonderful people elected from all dark corners of the political spectrum. Thankfully, as the people well know, councillors and MEPs don't really have any powers so it won't matter. The problem for SF and the others will be in the following general election when the people soberly consider who to elect into government. The local election vote will disappear in smoke.