Swiftway - Dublin's first bus rapid transit route - detailed plans released

LXFlyer · 14-10-2014 2:31pm

Aard wrote: »

Care to expand on that? Why is it "stupid"? Do you live outside its catchment?

A very large element of Swords is outside the catchment area - basically any of the estates south of Rathbeale Road, and pretty much all of the estates to the west of the Forest Road (including all of River Valley).

The report briefly refers to potential bus route rationalisation and feeder routes, but provides no detail on either.

foggy_lad · 14-10-2014 2:41pm

I can't see how buses at ordinary stops are not going to delay these much longer articulated buses because we all know that when two or more buses pull into bus stops they are rarely against the kerb and at least one will be partly or completely in the traffic lane blocking or severely restricting the traffic flow.

Many of the streets this is planned to go through are not wide enough for this plan and could not reasonably have traffic cut from current levels of 2-4 lanes down to one single lane in many areas. Residents of most of these old well established areas will fight tooth and nail to prevent anyone taking most or even part of their gardens for this. I believe that these and other elements of this plan will make it unworkable

I honestly don't have many ideas for improvement apart from doing away with cash fares on Dublin bus to cut dwell times and also put a tag on machine in each bus where passengers can pick their own fare on their Leap card(same as the driver does), this would have to be supported by proper revenue protection.

Proper policing and prompt removal of all vehicles in bus lanes or blocking stops, even if the driver turns up make them pay the full removal and storage fees before letting them drive off. I'm not for penalising car drivers but they must be knocked into line so that they support rather than hinder the operation of public transport.

Another thing I would have is designated stopping places on each street well away from any bus stops for taxis and ban them from picking up at any other place, This will stop their usual practice of disrupting traffic by dangerously pulling across lanes to pick up fares, they should also be banned from bus lanes along with all other non bus vehicles.

cgcsb · 14-10-2014 2:51pm

worth noting: The route proposes to use the central part of the Swords bypass, i.e. it is taking the proposed metro north route i.e. we're not getting metro north, at least on the route that already has planning permission.

Kumsheen · 14-10-2014 5:47pm

As expected it's nothing like a real BRT, but a tweaked version of the current infrastructure. Still predominately shared use space running alongside the pavement, and there will be no increase in enforcement to keep it clear.

The only positive comment i can make about the luas looking buses is the improvement in access for passengers with reduced mobility. Other than that all the other measures can be rolled onto the current network.

hmmm · 14-10-2014 5:55pm

If there's a line of cyclists going along, how does a BRT-lite bus pull into its stop? Bully its way in putting cyclists at risk?

monument · 14-10-2014 6:35pm

The drawings posted today by the NTA includes Luas tracks.

http://www.nationaltransport.ie/consultations/public-consultation-on-swiftway-bus-rapid-transit-swordsairport-to-city-centre/

cgcsb · 14-10-2014 7:03pm

hmmm wrote: »

If there's a line of cyclists going along, how does a BRT-lite bus pull into its stop? Bully its way in putting cyclists at risk?

Those of us who have actually looked at the diagrams know that the brt stops arent recessed. The standard Dublin bus stops are the recessed ones. There are also separate cycling facilities along most of the route

cgcsb · 14-10-2014 7:06pm

Regarding Westmoreland st/ o'connell bridges diagrams, I think there a number of errors in the diagram that should be corrected.

JeffK88 · 14-10-2014 7:23pm

Completely off topic (sorry) but the drawings of the system include some similar pictures of cars from the original Grand Theft Auto (1997) game. http://gta.wikia.com/Vehicles_in_GTA_1
http://www.nationaltransport.ie/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/BRT-0150_225244-10_P1-52.pdf

Are they allowed to do this ?

Aard · 14-10-2014 7:24pm

lxflyer wrote: »

A very large element of Swords is outside the catchment area - basically any of the estates south of Rathbeale Road, and pretty much all of the estates to the west of the Forest Road (including all of River Valley).

The report briefly refers to potential bus route rationalisation and feeder routes, but provides no detail on either.

Yes I understand that. But the poster said that the route choice was stupid...and just didn't elaborate. Hardly a persuasive argument. Metro North would have been equally non-serving of those areas too, for example.

Aard · 14-10-2014 7:35pm

I notice on the "updated" maps that the cycle tracks bypassing the BRT stops on O'Connell Street have been removed. Ok then

monument · 14-10-2014 7:41pm

cgcsb wrote: »

Those of us who have actually looked at the diagrams know that the brt stops arent recessed. The standard Dublin bus stops are the recessed ones. There are also separate cycling facilities along most of the route

Separate isn't quite the optimal word given how much the cycle routes merge into footpaths, how they are placed between bus lanes and bus stops, and how there's shared traffic / cycle and bus / cycle lanes.

Aard wrote: »

I notice on the "updated" maps that the cycle tracks bypassing the BRT stops on O'Connell Street have been removed. Ok then

Footpaths are too busy for it?

But the same should apply two fold to the two-way cycle path on Westmoreland Street.

John_C · 14-10-2014 7:54pm

Who has priority here, the car on the side road or the cyclist on the main road? The stop line seems to be half way across the cycle track.

Aard · 14-10-2014 8:01pm

John_C, there's so many little oversights like that in the documents. On a BRT route, all minor side roads should be raised on entry to the main carriageway, maintaining priority for both ped's and cyclists. Like most of central Amsterdam, for example (although this is not necessarily in a BRT-context).

John_C · 14-10-2014 8:06pm

Aard wrote: »

John_C, there's so many little oversights like that in the documents. On a BRT route, all minor side roads should be raised on entry to the main carriageway, maintaining priority for both ped's and cyclists. Like most of central Amsterdam, for example (although this is not necessarily in a BRT-context).

I agree but I'm worried that they're not just oversights in the documents. That one jumped out at me because there's something very similar near my gaff. I guess I don't have faith that these will be corrected before construction.

Aard · 14-10-2014 8:09pm

All I can say is get that submission in!!!

www.swiftway.ie

Cookie_Monster · 14-10-2014 8:49pm

Swords Rd / South Corballis Rd junction & stretch of road is crazy.

Narrow shared ped/cycle lanes, random piece of two way cycle track stuck in, no ability to cross the main junction from any direction for bikes without dismounting or blocking the BRT lane, BRT stops completely blocking the ped/cycle way, but the grass stays in place. Why not simply remove a lane of traffic and use the space better?

LXFlyer · 14-10-2014 8:53pm

monument wrote: »

The drawings posted today by the NTA includes Luas tracks.

http://www.nationaltransport.ie/consultations/public-consultation-on-swiftway-bus-rapid-transit-swordsairport-to-city-centre/

cgcsb wrote: »

Regarding Westmoreland st/ o'connell bridges diagrams, I think there a number of errors in the diagram that should be corrected.

Aard wrote: »

I notice on the "updated" maps that the cycle tracks bypassing the BRT stops on O'Connell Street have been removed. Ok then

I've updated the links in my original post for the updated maps.

The draft reports have been taken down so I've removed the links.

Buttercup78 · 14-10-2014 9:20pm

Living in swords I can't see what this adds to the existing peak services. Even the 41x going through the port tunnel can take an hour to get across the Liffey. Anything going through drumcondra is going to be a nightmare, there's no way they can widen the roads there. How quick is the route supposed to get into town?

AlekSmart · 14-10-2014 9:37pm

Buttercup78 wrote: »

Living in swords I can't see what this adds to the existing peak services. Even the 41x going through the port tunnel can take an hour to get across the Liffey. Anything going through drumcondra is going to be a nightmare, there's no way they can widen the roads there. How quick is the route supposed to get into town?

No need to widen any road IF the general traffic level is significantly reduced instead.

LXFlyer · 14-10-2014 9:48pm

The maps indicate that road widening will have to happen at various locations along the route. I'm assuming everyone is looking at them?

Aard · 14-10-2014 10:01pm

lxflyer wrote: »

The maps indicate that road widening will have to happen at various locations along the route. I'm assuming everyone is looking at them?

I think it's worth repeating that unless the maps are being consulted, there's no point in posting here.

I'm not at the computer right now so I can't verify, but iirc the most significant land take will be on the northern leg of Swords.

Buttercup78 · 14-10-2014 10:15pm

I'm looking at the maps, it indicates 2 bus lanes and 2 other lanes outside the cat and cage, also leaving a path. Right now there is only room for 2 lanes outside the cat and cage, they seem to be reclaiming some path on the St pats side outbound for a bus lane, but there is no scope to fit in a bus lane inbound, unless they remove the cat and cage, or the new building that's being built in St Pats.

LXFlyer · 14-10-2014 10:28pm

Buttercup78 wrote: »

I'm looking at the maps, it indicates 2 bus lanes and 2 other lanes outside the cat and cage, also leaving a path. Right now there is only room for 2 lanes outside the cat and cage, they seem to be reclaiming some path on the St pats side outbound for a bus lane, but there is no scope to fit in a bus lane inbound, unless they remove the cat and cage, or the new building that's being built in St Pats.

The road is to be realigned there - the whole road will slew to the right with bus lanes installed on both sides.

Carawaystick · 15-10-2014 9:20am

The whole planned cycling infrastructure in Swords is a joke.
The r132 has a 80 or 60 limit, which for cyclists means as fast as you can go, and they want to mix bikes with pedestrians?

A poster upthread said they wouldn't like their children to use shared bike/footpath and neither would I.

There appear to be no safe way for cyclists to turn right at the estuary road junction, the seatown junction, the Malahide junction.

As for the plan of re-routing cyclists off the swords bypass through swords village, with crossing traffic, parking cars increased risk of dooring and slower speed? And then are northbound cyclists supposed to magically safely turn right from North st onto the r125 to get to the r132?

Cookie_Monster · 15-10-2014 9:38am

Carawaystick wrote: »

The r132 has a 80 or 60 limit, which for cyclists means as fast as you can go, and they want to mix bikes with pedestrians?

cyclists are not subject to speed limits anyway so I'm not sure what the poitn here is supposed to be?

ardmacha · 15-10-2014 9:43am

monument wrote: »

Large amount of shared use paths in and around Whitehall, Coolock Lane, around Northwood, around Swords, etc.

One existing bad thing does not justify more bad things, better to remove the existing bad thing and not do it any more.
Pedestrians should be shown some consideration in this, if only because a person i a pedestrian when the get off the the bus.

Yer Aul One · 15-10-2014 10:15am

I get a rotten feeling cycling through Lincoln place. I was hoping they would put in a cycle lane. No luck. Looks like they are reducing it to two lanes and putting in indented stop.

LXFlyer · 15-10-2014 10:42am

Aard wrote: »

Yes I understand that. But the poster said that the route choice was stupid...and just didn't elaborate. Hardly a persuasive argument. Metro North would have been equally non-serving of those areas too, for example.

Indeed Metro North would not have served those areas directly either, but the time differential would have made all the difference. For many taking a bus or walking to a Metro stop and then taking the Metro would have been faster than their current journey time. That isn't really the case for Swiftway for many of the areas that I quoted above (south of Rathbeale Road and west of Forest Road).

Also, a park and ride facility was planned at Fosterstown (adjacent to Pinnock Hill) as part of the Metro North proposal, which would have facilitated many people. There are no park & ride proposals as part of Swiftway - this again is going to make it much harder for people from those large estates to avail of the service.

Aard · 15-10-2014 11:24am

Yep all that's fair enough, but ever since the first proposed routings of Swiftway were announced, the South West quadrant of Swords has never been indicated to be served, so I'm not sure what all the surprise is about.

Swiftway - Dublin's first bus rapid transit route - detailed plans released

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