[foggy_lad]

I have seen statements such as

If you do not have AppleCare support, a fee of €69 is applied to all Macs being brought to us out-of-warranty.

being made by shop accounts in their terms of sale in relation to faulty goods and customers rights. making a statement like this is illegal if it does not also state that this does not affect your statutory rights.

If you brought an item to this retailer which was faulty through defect etc then the retailer are obliged to deal with you and repair replace or refund, and should not be charging for repairs covered by your statutory rights.

[Spocker]

In fairness, the retailer isn't making an illegal statement when saying that, and not overriding your statutory rights (which can't be overridden anyways).

This is the specific distinction (my bolding):

Originally Posted by foggy_lad

If you brought an item to this retailer which was faulty through defect etc then the retailer are obliged to deal with you and repair replace or refund, and should not be charging for repairs covered by your statutory rights.

The retailer is permitted to determine the cause of the fault, and whether that fault is covered under warranty or not. If it's not under warranty, then they are perfectly within their rights to charge for that time in determining that cause. If the cause is found to be a warranty fix, then the customer is perfectly entitled under their rights to seek a refund of any "examination" money paid.

Samebutdifferent: Lots of people put their car in for the NCT, to see if theres a problem, but they pay for the NCT regardless of the outcome, even if the car is under warranty or not.

[foggy_lad]

Originally Posted by Spocker

In fairness, the retailer isn't making an illegal statement when saying that, and not overriding your statutory rights (which can't be overridden anyways).

This is the specific distinction (my bolding):




The retailer is permitted to determine the cause of the fault, and whether that fault is covered under warranty or not. If it's not under warranty, then they are perfectly within their rights to charge for that time in determining that cause. If the cause is found to be a warranty fix, then the customer is perfectly entitled under their rights to seek a refund of any "examination" money paid.

Samebutdifferent: Lots of people put their car in for the NCT, to see if theres a problem, but they pay for the NCT regardless of the outcome, even if the car is under warranty or not.

A retailer is not allowed display a sign stating "no refunds" or "all returns must be dealt with by the manufacturer" unless they qualify it by adding "does not affect your statutory rights".

As far as charging for an examination goes, the retailer is obliged to replace repair or refund for goods which are faulty or which are unfit for purpose, not durable etc etc. this is covered in the sale of goods act.

The retailer is allowed examine the goods to check for misuse or customer damage but this must be at their own cost. If goods are found to be damaged by misuse etc then it is at the discretion of the retailer to charge for a repair after letting the customer know the damage and expected cost.

If there is a warranty in place like apples 12month warranty and a laptop is returned after the warranty has expired it will still be covered by the sale of goods act for up to 6 years from the date of purchase. to state that all out of warranty goods will be subject to a €70 charge is denying consumers their statutory rights by making them pay for a repair that should be provided free of charge by the retailer once there has been no customer misuse beyone normal wear and tear.

[Spocker]

Originally Posted by foggy_lad

AAs far as charging for an examination goes, the retailer is obliged to replace repair or refund for goods which are faulty or which are unfit for purpose, not durable etc etc. this is covered in the sale of goods act.

The retailer is allowed examine the goods to check for misuse or customer damage but this must be at their own cost. If goods are found to be damaged by misuse etc then it is at the discretion of the retailer to charge for a repair after letting the customer know the damage and expected cost.

If there is a warranty in place like apples 12month warranty and a laptop is returned after the warranty has expired it will still be covered by the sale of goods act for up to 6 years from the date of purchase. to state that all out of warranty goods will be subject to a €70 charge is denying consumers their statutory rights by making them pay for a repair that should be provided free of charge by the retailer once there has been no customer misuse beyone normal wear and tear.

I'm sorry, but there is no mention in any legislation that a retailer can/can't charge to examine an item that is out of warranty; thus the consumers statutory rights are not being denied.

Simply put, my understanding is this:

• The item is faulty, within any statutory "acceptible" period, i.e. 2 years; the retailer is obliged to repair/replace/refund
• The item is faulty, outside of any manufacturers warranty; it's not specified that they can't charge to examine the product.

Even Apple do it, and they have better legal eagles in their back pocket than I do

Originally Posted by Random Apple Ireland Support Page

REPAIR
How can I tell if my product needs service?
Visit our AirPort + Time Capsule support site for helpful troubleshooting information. If you have reviewed the articles on the website, and you're still not sure whether your product requires service, you can take your product to your local Apple Authorized Service Provider (”AASP”) for diagnosis. Alternatively, you can contact Apple. A technical support agent can help you diagnose the issue.

Note: Diagnostic fees may apply for issues not covered under warranty or the AppleCare Protection Plan (APP).

Apple's Limited Warranty and AppleCare Protection Plan benefits are in addition to rights provided by the EU statutory warranty. For details, click here.

http://www.apple.com/ie/support/airport/service/faq/

It's also incorrect to 'state' that goods are covered for up to 6 years by the Sale of Goods Act; you actually have the 6 years to report a fault.

[Steve]

Foggy has a point there - goods are covered by SOG for the term they are 'reasonably expected to last'.

Just because an item for sale states it has a one year warranty doesn't mean that you lose your right to a repair, replacement or refund beyond that.

[foggy_lad]

Originally Posted by Steve

Foggy has a point there - goods are covered by SOG for the term they are 'reasonably expected to last'.

Just because an item for sale states it has a one year warranty doesn't mean that you lose your right to a repair, replacement or refund beyond that.

Afaik it is an offence for retailers to state in advertising or notices that they charge for repairs or other remedies which will be covered by a consumers statutory rights. It is also an offence for retailers to say no refunds or that items are only covered by a years warranty unless they also state that this does not affect your statutory rights which would give better protection generally.

Shops can charge for repairs when they are required due to customer neglect damage etc which falls outside normal wear and tear but only the worst kind of shops like in the DSG group currys and pc world, smyths toys, argos and most of the English chain stores seek to nullify Irish customers rights by trying to bring in this ridiculous "examination" charge before they take an item back, or in the case of many of these shops they try to insist on the customer getting an independent engineers report stating that the item is faulty and not through customer misuse.

All the customer has to do is bring the item back to the retailer and tell them the nature of the fault or complaint and it is then up to the retailer to refute the customers claims and this they usually do by sending the item back to manufacturers for examination and repair under warrenty if applicable but if the manufacturers warrenty is gone the retailer must take the hit on repairing or replacing or refunding as legally they must stand over what they sell!

[Steve]

Agree with your post Foggy except for:

It is also an offence for retailers to say no refunds

It's my understanding that as a consumer, you are entitled to a repair, replacement or refund - this is at the retailers discretion i.e. if they offer you either a repair or replacement you can not legally insist on a refund.
Legally, they can say no refunds - or no replacements - or both but they can't deny all three.

Aside from that, it doesn't make sense for any retailer to effectively deny themselves one of their channels of resolution but - as you say, maybe it's an attempt to hoodwink the consumer.

If this ever happens to anyone then a threat to bring it to the small claims court soon gets their attention.

SOG is actually one of the less confusing acts to read in Irish legislation.

[foggy_lad]

Originally Posted by Steve

Agree with your post Foggy except for:


It's my understanding that as a consumer, you are entitled to a repair, replacement or refund - this is at the retailers discretion i.e. if they offer you either a repair or replacement you can not legally insist on a refund.
Legally, they can say no refunds - or no replacements - or both but they can't deny all three.

Aside from that, it doesn't make sense for any retailer to effectively deny themselves one of their channels of resolution but - as you say, maybe it's an attempt to hoodwink the consumer.

If this ever happens to anyone then a threat to bring it to the small claims court soon gets their attention.

SOG is actually one of the less confusing acts to read in Irish legislation.

The retailer does not get to decide on the remedy(repair replace or refund), but it is chosen between both parties, as for signs or statemants saying "no refunds" or one I heard in Argos "we only sell them we don't repair them" this is in effect limiting the redress available through the sale of goods act which is an offence unless the statements carry the qualification "Does not affect your statutory rights"!

[Steve]

Originally Posted by foggy_lad

The retailer does not get to decide on the remedy(repair replace or refund)

Disagree with you there mate - read the act and tell me where it says this.

[foggy_lad]

http://www.nca.ie/nca/faulty-goods

Reject & rescind

When you buy goods, you enter into a contract with the seller. If those goods turn out to be faulty and the fault is major, you are entitled to reject the goods and rescind (end) the contract. If you simply reject the goods, for example, a broken bill-pay phone, you may still be tied into a contract unless you demand to cancel it without any penalty fees.

This option is complex and can depend on a number of factors. For example, the severity of the fault, the length of time since you bought the goods, and the inconvenience caused to you as a result of the fault. If a fault occurs within the first 6 months of purchase, it is assumed that is was there at the time of sale. It is important to remember that if you caused the fault, the trader is under no obligation to offer you any type of compensation.
Repair

If you request a repair of a faulty product instead of rejecting it, it should be a permanent repair. If the same fault occurs again, then you should be entitled to a replacement or refund. If you are not happy with the retailer’s offer to repair the item, you can reject it. But if you do this, you may have to use the Small Claims process if you want to take the matter further.

Remember, the retailer may charge you for the repair if you have been responsible for the damage to the product.
Replacement

If you opt for a replacement, it should be the same as the item you bought, or of similar quality and price.

You should not have to pay extra for a replacement and should be given the difference in price if the replacement costs less than the item you originally bought.
Refund

If you opt for a refund, this can be in cash or by cheque, or the retailer can refund your credit or debit card account if you used one to buy the item. You do not have to accept a credit note or voucher as a refund as they are not equivalent to cash. You can choose a refund instead.
Other options

You have the option to use the Small Claims process as long as the claim does not exceed €2,000. The application fee is €25 and the service is provided in your local District Court.

[Steve]

That only proves my point.

You may reject the offer and take it to small claims, this does not mean their offer or your rejection of it is legally binding.

The NCA's opinions on the matter, whilst helpful, aren't actual law.