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FAQ: Analogue, DTT, Aerials

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  • Registered Users Posts: 41 chelskifan


    Thanks Sam /TBC
    I have a spare sat' bracket that I can mount on a rafter and fix the aerial aerial to. in order to increase signal. Will also try a portable in the attic to check best position and confirm curent cable is ok.. Btw,tried a friend's amplified indoor aerial last night (he gets perfect reception with it) and had to hold it at ceiling height and by the window before I got reception of the 6 stns. May yet be a localised 'black spot' where I am but will try everything else first.


  • Registered Users Posts: 41 chelskifan


    Hi Sam / TBC,
    I suspended the aerial from the beam lat night and the analogue signal jumped
    significantly. Btw, noticed that it's not group W but group A (red cap)-another 'senior moment 'on my part. Unfortunately, didn't get to retune to
    check what effect it had on the digital signal as I was called away.

    Given that it's not wide band at all but band A and outside the channel bandwidth would I now be better replacing it for the correct one (C/D) ?
    Would the 'gain' be worth it ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Group A aerials are not bad on Group B and drop slowly on Group C/D
    Aerials higher group than A are all bad at lower groups.
    Most Group W aerials are really B/C with usable but lower group D and poor Group A.
    Given that it's not wide band at all but band A and outside the channel bandwidth would I now be better replacing it for the correct one (C/D) ?
    Would the 'gain' be worth it ?
    It reduces interference to have correct group. It likely would be worth it seeing as you are Group C/D (if you have decent Group B transmitter a Group A could be OK).


  • Registered Users Posts: 41 chelskifan


    Thanks Watty, will replace with correct C/D aerial as it can only help reception rather than hinder it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,235 ✭✭✭lucernarian


    What's the digital signal strength like now after properly mounting the aerial?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭STB


    chelskifan wrote: »
    Thanks Watty, will replace with correct C/D aerial as it can only help reception rather than hinder it.

    And when you do point it towards Clermont Carn (Channel 53) which will be better line of sight along the coast than three rock. You may also pick up Kilkeel Freeview from NI when they come on end of 2012/early 13.


  • Registered Users Posts: 41 chelskifan


    STB..Will check digital signal this evening (keeping in mind it's an A group aerial. Will be a good exercise to know what difference lifting it actually made.
    Sam....Once I replace the A with a C/D (tomorrow evening ) I'll point it at Cairn Hill. As you say it's a better line of sight.

    EDIT:
    TBC....Will check digital signal this evening (keeping in mind it's an A group aerial).. Will be a good exercise to know what difference lifting it actually made.

    STB.....Once I replace the A with a C/D (tomorrow evening ) I'll point it at Cairn Hill. As you say it's a better line of sight. Noticed last night that the 'split' within the general locality seems to be 70/30 in favour of Cairn Hill rather than 3 Rock.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,235 ✭✭✭lucernarian


    STB wrote: »
    And when you do point it towards Clermont Carn (Channel 53) which will be better line of sight along the coast than three rock. You may also pick up Kilkeel Freeview from NI when they come on end of 2012/early 13.
    I don't think that's true. No one south of the Carlingford Penninsula has a hope of picking Kilkeel freeview or otherwise with a loft aerial except perhaps the likes of parts of Clogherhead in Co. Louth and then with a massive aerial. Furthermore, Clermont Carn is heavily restricted currently and Three Rock is as strong as Clermont Carn even in many parts of Drogheda as a result! I estimate that the increase in power at DSO would still mean that only parts of Swords and northwards, beyond Rush, would be better off receiving from Clermont Carn. The SFN with Kippure also leans in favour of reception from Three Rock.

    In short it would be madness to use Clermont Carn instead of Three Rock for anywhere but one or two patches at the very north of Swords. Definitely not Forrest road.


  • Registered Users Posts: 41 chelskifan


    Hi All, sorry for not getting back before now with an update.
    Suspended the group A from a beam and the analohue reception increased about 30% but no digital signal. Replaced the group A with a C/D (pointed at 3 Rock) and immeditaly got digital reception of all tv/radio stns.Signal strength
    across all is about 20% with quality as follows:
    RTE1 -20% (does flucuate upto 50% initially but drops back down)
    RTE2 -20% " " " " " " " " "
    TV3 - 50%
    TG4 -30%
    RTEN -30%
    3E - 50% (down to 10% during the day)
    On-screen PQ is still VERY watchable though.
    Will also point to Clairmont to see what the reception is like from there as several of the group A's I've seen locally pointed in this direction had no masthead so just maybe in this localised spot reception 'might' be better..who knows.. Many thanks to all for your comments/contributions to date.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19 Midnight Rider


    Some of the links in the original post are dead. :(

    I was actually searching around to find out exactly what kind of aerial is necessary to receive Irish terrestrial television, and after checking out a bunch of replies and other sites I'm still as confused as ever. :confused:

    But, I'm presuming that a 10db UHF loft aerial is suitable for the Dublin area? :o


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  • Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    yes.

    Three Rock UHF


  • Registered Users Posts: 19 Midnight Rider


    watty wrote: »
    yes.

    Three Rock UHF

    Thanks watty, that's what I was thinking. :D

    I was on RTE's site too, I found it wasn't all that helpful. :(


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Try
    http://www.saortv.info/terrestrial-saorview/transmitters/
    and
    http://www.techtir.ie/tv-radio/Irish-DTT-Sites

    I've been in contact with RTE and RTENL. They have promised more info.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 18,560 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    Hi all, reasonably okay on satellite reception (Freesat distributed to 3 TVs, FTA on another 2) but pretty lost on terrestrial broadcasts.
    When I purchased my house in '98 there was a huge ariel attached to the chimney which I took down during extension as a new hipped roof made future access dangerous, I relied on Chorus then Sky for RTE etc because the house must be located in some sort of broadcast 'shadow', hence the pre-existing ariel setup, I have tried cheap "rabbit-ears" in the past and nothing comes up on any TV. I am currently without RTE etc.
    Now the digital era beckons so I'd like advise on what attic ariel I should seek to see whether I can pick up Saorview.
    I'd prefer an Argos purchase because then I can bring back for an immediate refund if I can't pick up any signal, if I need a stronger ariel at least the Argos one (I hope) will provide an indication to me.
    I am in Athlone.

    Thanks in advance guys.


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Argos is no good for Aerials.

    You need a outdoor aerial. Forget about attic aerial in Athlone.


  • Registered Users Posts: 388 ✭✭johnny_cash


    Hi can somebody please show me what aerial i will need to get saorview as watty and others are saying argos is crap i don't know what i need.I looked on satellite.ie and seen a aerial but doesn't come with all the brackets to put it up i don't know what to buy.I live in myshall co carlow if you need to know about the signal.Thanks it's just there's so many people talking about it can someboby please explain in simple english.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 422 ✭✭ Cedric Stale Palace


    Hi can somebody please show me what aerial i will need to get saorview as watty and others are saying argos is crap i don't know what i need.I looked on satellite.ie and seen a aerial but doesn't come with all the brackets to put it up i don't know what to buy.I live in myshall co carlow if you need to know about the signal.Thanks it's just there's so many people talking about it can someboby please explain in simple english.

    I'm no expert but if your getting Saorview from Mt Leinster you'll need a group B aerial (yellow tip) horizontally polarized. Hope this helps


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,486 ✭✭✭dowtchaboy


    Hi can somebody please show me what aerial i will need to get saorview as watty and others are saying argos is crap i don't know what i need.I looked on satellite.ie and seen a aerial but doesn't come with all the brackets to put it up i don't know what to buy.I live in myshall co carlow if you need to know about the signal.Thanks it's just there's so many people talking about it can someboby please explain in simple english.

    If you live in Myshall the Mt Leinster signal will be so strong you can probably get it on the "wrong" group aerial, an indoor aerial, a coat hanger or no aerial at all! Do you get TV3 and TG4 well at the moment? That same aerial will likely be just fine for Saorview. You are only 6 or 7 km from one of the most powerful transmitters in the country - no problems!

    db (ex-Borris exile......)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,030 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    Hey guys I've been looking around these forums to see if there are any recommended USB DTT tuners for a PC and didn't see anything.

    I was looking here >> http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_0_20?url=search-alias%3Dcomputers&field-keywords=usb+digital+tv+tuner&sprefix=usb+digital+tv+tuner

    would these be suitable?

    I figured aerials was close enough - if it isn't feel free to move this question mods.


  • Registered Users Posts: 589 ✭✭✭jonnygee


    Would anyone know what type of aerial, eg indoor, attic or external would be required to recieve digital from Kippure transmitter at Rathoath in Co Meath


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Astral TV kindly posted this elsewhere. From Bill Wright who runs a well known UK website on the subject of the proper installation of aerials comes this guide to Installing an aerial in an attic. . The aerial shown is a rather good €50 range high gain...not a cheap contract aerial. I personally recommend doing an attic installation ONLY when it is pishing down outside because that is when the signal is at its WEAKEST.

    If you don't know how to read a compass don't bother reading this article, hire an expert installer instead. :)

    http://www.wrightsaerials.tv/articles/whatsat-201007.pdf


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,235 ✭✭✭lucernarian


    Don't mind compasses, RTENL have a site that is accurate for the large majority of people and gives the exact bearing, which is shown on google maps. The aerial should work reliably within roughly 30 degrees off the path of the signal and if it needs precision adjustment, it shouldn't be in the attic in the first place! An attic install needs a good solid signal margin to account for the higher chance of intermittent interference from switches, motors, (and indeed faulty TVs themselves!) and possible signal weakness during rain, as SB rightly points out.

    The site is http://coverage.rtenl.ie/index.php and in rural spots in particular I suspect the coverage is a little underestimated if anything. I suggest anyone looking for Saorview check it out.


  • Registered Users Posts: 119 ✭✭Antigrav


    I'm trying to get DTT using the aerial for that came with the house when we bought it. I'm getting picture and sound, but with very low signal strength/quality (unwatchable)

    The cable has two aerials connected to it. One is an MMDS (ex-NTL) square mesh dish which I assume is on 2.5Ghz and has a box connected in line (amplifier?), the cable goes into another box with the cable from the UHF aerial (diplexer?), then the single coax cable goes into the house. It was originally connected to a power inserter that came with the PACE box from NTL.

    I have just terminated the cable at the DTT Receiver (USB DVD-T), and am decoding it with a media centre PC.

    Should I:
    1. Just connect the UHF feed and remove, diplexer and MMDS aeriel and amplifier
    2. Put power inserter into circuit as it will improve UHF signal
    3. Install diplexer at termination to split UHF signal back out


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,260 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Antigrav wrote: »

    Should I:
    1. Just connect the UHF feed and remove, diplexer and MMDS aeriel and amplifier
    2. Put power inserter into circuit as it will improve UHF signal
    3. Install diplexer at termination to split UHF signal back out

    Do the first and see what you get. The MMDS does nothing for you. The power inserter is only any use if there is an amp in the way. Try the first option first. If it works, you are sorted.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,235 ✭✭✭lucernarian


    What are the analogue channels like? What RTÉ transmitter are you picking up? It would work a bit better if you disconnected the MMDS aerial and diplexer but it should be working okay if the aerial is outside... As the diplexer will leave a join to be made, it might be less hassle to go up to the aerial and just run its own cable directly from the aerial to wherever you want, or to run a length of cable and then connect it to the existing cable somewhere that isn't exposed to wind and rain.

    Check http://coverage.rtenl.ie/index.php for what direction the aerial should point in, it's usually accurate.


  • Registered Users Posts: 119 ✭✭Antigrav


    It's pointing at Three Rock, but we are in Enniskerry. Analogue was reasonable, but a bit fuzzy on RTE 2.

    Some days RTE 1 has been fine on DTT, but RTE 2 always breaks up.

    We have good line of sight to Kippure, is there a beam from there that goes East?


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,235 ✭✭✭lucernarian


    Have you tried using an indoor aerial to pick up saorview? Have it facing out an west-facing window. If you can see the masts for the two transmitters, a piece of wet string should pick up Saorview. You may be pleasantly suprised!

    RTE 1 and RTE 2 should be identical quality on Saorview. They are broadcast on the same channel. I didn't think it was physically possible for one "channel" within a mux to work fine while another on the same work has problems.


    Three Rock you say? Many MMDS installs I've seen used aerials that worked fine for analogue frequencies but Three Rock has changed to using higher frequencies. It's unlikely but if the indoor aerial doesn't work for any of the TVs, you'll probably need a basic new wideband or Group C/D aerial. But even a wrong-grouped aerial should manage reliably where you are. Replacing the cable is always a good idea as they only last for so long, a decade or so, and even if you need a new aerial, the signal will still be more reliable with new cable.

    Go for the transmitter which has best Line of Sight. I thought Enniskerry had LOS to Three Rock too but whichever suits best. Kippure broadcasts more weakly to the east but it's only 4 miles away so it won't be an issue:)


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,705 ✭✭✭fat-tony


    Antigrav wrote: »

    Some days RTE 1 has been fine on DTT, but RTE 2 always breaks up.

    RTE Two is transmitting in HD resolution 1440x1080. It would seem that your media centre PC has insufficient processing power to decode the HD signal.
    2.8GHz dual core required if you're using a software decoder. You may get away with a lower spec CPU if your graphics card has on-board H.264 decoding and is enabled.

    What are the specs of your PC and what OS etc. are you using?


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,235 ✭✭✭lucernarian


    I was wondering if the TV was somehow unable to handle the resolution of RTE2 but I see it's running off a home theater PC.

    My posts above don't matter now, it's very likely an issue with the processing power of the PC as fat-tony mentions or else an inefficient MPEG4 decoder installed.

    Do tell us what sort of hardware you're using for this HTPC and operating system etc.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 119 ✭✭Antigrav


    OK. You guys zoomed in pretty quickly on what is most probably the issue. This may be a thread for the HTPC Forum. Anyway . . .

    It only a pentium 2GHz, 1Gb RAM and graphics card definitely doesn't have H.264 decoding :rolleyes:

    I'm running Ubuntu 10.10, and MythTV back-end as decoder.

    Even more likely as a bottleneck is that the DVB-T adapter is an Hauppauge Nova-T running through a USB 1.0 port :o

    Wishful thinking, or what? :P


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