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Martin : FF no longer toxic brand

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,774 ✭✭✭raymon


    I was simply looking for the o.p to come clean about his allegiance to f.g. In the fairness of having an open and honest debate. If I was a supporter of .f.f and trying to put a case forward as to why somebody should support them over f.g., it would be nice to know that the o.p was a lifelong f.g supporter and would support them in any circumstances.
    Being a f.g supporter I would expect him to be interested in openess and transperancy .

    I am not a FG supporter.

    Please stop dragging the thread off the OP


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,219 ✭✭✭Nate--IRL--


    raymon wrote: »
    Martin has declared Fianna Fail to be detoxified

    Ahahahaha! What a ****wit.

    Nate


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,429 ✭✭✭Cedrus


    The thirty year papers release isn't going to help even if all is not going to be revealed about the Phone Tapping Files.
    November 1982 was a bad time for the fine failures to lose an election, all the **** is coming out now. Haughey stamps his legacy on the party once again.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,774 ✭✭✭raymon


    Thomas D wrote: »
    FF only care about themselves and this sort of introspection is typical of Martin and FF. It's all about the party and how they're perceived.

    You are correct there. You will find that all Michael Martins interviews are about himself or the party or more about himself. Never a mention of the countrys fortunes.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,589 ✭✭✭Fr. Ned


    raymon wrote: »
    In an attempt to shore up internal support for himself , Martin has declared Fianna Fail to be detoxified

    http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/martin-ff-no-longer-a-toxic-brand-253622.html

    Is he correct ? Is all forgiven ?

    When I think of Fianna Fail the first things that come into my head are bankrupting of the economy, surrender of our soverignty, corruption, forgery, arrogance, dishonesty, money resting in accounts, telling lies under oath , etc etc.

    Still looks toxic to me

    As long as Mehole Martin and the likes of Willie O'Dea etc etc are involved, at any level, FFail will be toxic.
    They must purge themselves of the old guard before they can be taken seriously again.
    In saying that, the FF voters who 'loaned' their votes to FG in the 2011 GE will return en masse after seeing that FG are really just the same thing.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,589 ✭✭✭Fr. Ned



    Being a f.g supporter I would expect him to be interested in openness and transperancy .

    As a famous man once said...."That's a cracker........"

    They don't know the meaning of those two words.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,460 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    There are, in my view, two irelands. It is not easy to define them but there are certain characteristics that are generally relevant:

    Rural/urban
    Parochial/metropolitan
    Tribal/citizen
    Self interested / want the country as a whole to do well.

    There are lots of cross overs and urban people can be just as parochial and self interested as rural people.

    However, among the latter types FF are completely toxic and will never return to normality. On the other hand, among the hard core parish pumpers, FF did nothing wrong. This is why dublin has no sitting FF TDs but, as the parish pumpers and me feniers grow in dominance again, I suspect a few FF TDs will get through.

    But for approximately 20% of Irish people, mostly older and mostly from outside dublin, they would sooner sacrifice their young than vote for someone other than FF.

    So Martins message is really for those people who are closer to the latter group than the former, and the message is "at least hear us out". By the time of the next election, they will be saying "now that everything is forgiven, look how great we are".

    I say no.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,378 ✭✭✭BuilderPlumber


    raymon wrote: »
    You are correct there. You will find that all Michael Martins interviews are about himself or the party or more about himself. Never a mention of the countrys fortunes.

    We see poor leadership everywhere in Ireland. Martin is a prime example. The image of himself and his party are put before the country for sure. Next general election I probably will not vote for anyone as they are all the same.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,378 ✭✭✭BuilderPlumber


    Fr. Ned wrote: »
    As long as Mehole Martin and the likes of Willie O'Dea etc etc are involved, at any level, FFail will be toxic.
    They must purge themselves of the old guard before they can be taken seriously again.
    In saying that, the FF voters who 'loaned' their votes to FG in the 2011 GE will return en masse after seeing that FG are really just the same thing.

    Martin, O'Dea, etc. were all prominent members of the recent FF administration and served under our 'corruptest Taoiseach Bertie'. Their very names are associated with that era so yes FF will remain toxic for as long as they are there.

    BUT toxicity runs far deeper than just that. Mention the word politician in Ireland and you are sure to get a negative feedback about the profession. The current government are hardly implementing the policies the people voted them in to implement and hardly kept their promises. I don't believe Martin's FF would be any different to the current government or the previous FF government.

    When we have either corrupt or useless politicians as our choice, people will just stop voting. Many of today's politicians don't even try to help their communities. The fact that they don't even try means they should not get a vote.

    I'd glad I'm out of Waterford, the current home of 2 of our most useless TDs. But never fear, I'm in Cork now and have Martin!! Better than the 2 FG & Labour tossers from Waterford but not by much and I won't be voting for him. :mad::D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,859 ✭✭✭bmaxi


    If FF are elected to power again with the likes of O'Dea, Martin and God preserve us all, Coughlan involved then the Irish people deserve everything they've got so far in this crisis. I can't see how anybody could justify a vote for FF in any circumstances but, having said that, I don't think the current lot have covered themselves in glory either.
    Maybe the thinking behind Martin's aspirations is, as we don't really govern ourselves anyway and are unlikely ever to do so again, one puppet is as good as the next.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,859 ✭✭✭Courtesy Flush


    No party is free from corruption charges but FF seems to have been significantly more corrupt than the others. Heres hoping they dont slime their way back in


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,771 ✭✭✭michael999999


    No party is free from corruption charges but FF seems to have been significantly more corrupt than the others. Heres hoping they dont slime their way back in

    Never underestimate the stupidity of people to vote in these crooks!


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    raymon wrote: »
    In an attempt to shore up internal support for himself , Martin has declared Fianna Fail to be detoxified

    http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/martin-ff-no-longer-a-toxic-brand-253622.html

    Is he correct ? Is all forgiven ?

    When I think of Fianna Fail the first things that come into my head are bankrupting of the economy, surrender of our soverignty, corruption, forgery, arrogance, dishonesty, money resting in accounts, telling lies under oath , etc etc.

    Still looks toxic to me

    Has Martin forgotten about himself and Willie? It will never be fully detoxified so long as he and Willie are still there.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,774 ✭✭✭raymon


    Mr.Micro wrote: »
    Has Martin forgotten about himself and Willie? It will never be fully detoxified so long as he and Willie are still there.

    Indeed . We must also remember that most current Fianna Fail TDs and Senators were part of Foireann Bertie (Bertie's Team) in 2007. You will find it difficult to find the election literature now - most images have been deleted by Fianna Fail.

    Bertie's boys still look toxic to me - all of them.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,378 ✭✭✭BuilderPlumber


    bmaxi wrote: »
    If FF are elected to power again with the likes of O'Dea, Martin and God preserve us all, Coughlan involved then the Irish people deserve everything they've got so far in this crisis. I can't see how anybody could justify a vote for FF in any circumstances but, having said that, I don't think the current lot have covered themselves in glory either.
    Maybe the thinking behind Martin's aspirations is, as we don't really govern ourselves anyway and are unlikely ever to do so again, one puppet is as good as the next.

    True. We do not need these in power ever ever ever again. The last time they were in government, they were self serving and useless. The same holds for our current shower. I will not vote for the people in FF, FG, Labour, SF or the indos we currently have as they are all useless, incompetent, lying opportunists who promise the sun, moon and stars and deliver sweet FA. Mediocrity flavoured with corruption = current Irish politics.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,378 ✭✭✭BuilderPlumber


    No party is free from corruption charges but FF seems to have been significantly more corrupt than the others. Heres hoping they dont slime their way back in

    FF are a very corrupt party especially during the Bertie and Charlie 'John Boy' Haughey eras! De Valera was someone I wouldn't exactly trust either. Lemass and Lynch seemed to be good leaders.

    FF are more corrupt than the others because they have been in power far longer and are bigger. However, corruption and protecting elites is common in all parties (yes, inclusive of SF, the indos and such movements as reform alliance and direct democracy: just wait to see any of them join FF or FG and you will see how they act!!). The system, where politics and big business go hand in hand, is what causes a lot of this and taken politics away from serving the people to instead serve certain individuals over the years including Seans Dunne, Fitzpatrick and Quinn, Larry Goodman, Michael Smurfit, Dermot Desmond and Ben Dunne.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,771 ✭✭✭michael999999


    Did I hear recently that Sean Haughey will be running for fianna fail next elections?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,378 ✭✭✭BuilderPlumber


    Did I hear recently that Sean Haughey will be running for fianna fail next elections?

    Yes, you did. And you will be hearing a lot more of the so-called 'retired' FF politicians who resigned in 2011 putting themselves forward again! Please god, do not make one of them Dermot Ahern!!


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,771 ✭✭✭michael999999


    Yes, you did. And you will be hearing a lot more of the so-called 'retired' FF politicians who resigned in 2011 putting themselves forward again! Please god, do not make one of them Dermot Ahern!!

    Or one of the nodding donkeys as Ivan yates recently described Dermot !


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,458 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    I really hope the electorate remember it is Fianna Fail who shepherded us into this disaster and the fact that some of those who helped with the decisions (or was it inaction) are still around.

    The fact that FF have a man as their current leader that sat at the cabinet table for 14 years shows that they are certainly far from detoxified.

    What did Michael do at the cabinet table for those 14 years, was he an active participant in the decision making process or did he just sit there and "look pretty" smiling gormlessly at Bertie Ahern while he made a cuppa. Either way he is not fit to be a TD let alone consider himself an alternative leader of the next Government.

    As for alternatives Sinn Fein certainly are not one of them. They are shaping up nicely as a new FF showing their hypocrisy with the populist fantasy economics that they spout in opposition down here with the vicious cuts that they have enacted when they are actually in Government in Northern Ireland.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,589 ✭✭✭Fr. Ned


    Yes, you did. And you will be hearing a lot more of the so-called 'retired' FF politicians who resigned in 2011 putting themselves forward again! Please god, do not make one of them Dermot Ahern!!

    If any of the FFailed TD's from the last 3 FFail governments run for election it would be impossible to even consider voting for them.
    They really are stupid if they think they can 'retire' with their pensions and stepping down payments and then come back 5 years later.
    Have they no shame?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,771 ✭✭✭michael999999


    Fr. Ned wrote: »
    If any of the FFailed TD's from the last 3 FFail governments run for election it would be impossible to even consider voting for them.
    They really are stupid if they think they can 'retire' with their pensions and stepping down payments and then come back 5 years later.
    Have they no shame?

    The gangsters and husslers of fianna fail don't know the meaning of shame!


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,236 ✭✭✭Dannyboy83


    Michael 'It was just resting in my wife's bank account' Martin

    martin.jpeg


    So did he ever manage to believably explain how Cork property developer Owen O’Callaghan's money ended up in his wife, Mary’s, bank account?
    http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/election-2011/martin-no-impropriety-in-donations-from-developer-144327.html

    In response, he provided a lengthy statement explaining that between 1989 and 1993 he had received political donations totalling £6,200 from Mr O’Callaghan.

    One of these donations was £5,000, a portion of which was “cashed and applied for political expenditure” and the remainder — some £3,500 — lodged to Mr Martin’s wife Mary’s AIB account in Dublin in July 1991.

    Later that same month, €2,550 was withdrawn from this account. Mr Martin told the tribunal in his statement: “I believe (it) was applied for political expenditure at that time.”

    No longer toxic me hole


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,589 ✭✭✭Fr. Ned


    Dannyboy83 wrote: »
    Michael 'It was just resting in my wife's bank account' Martin

    martin.jpeg


    So did he ever manage to believably explain how Cork property developer Owen O’Callaghan's money ended up in his wife, Mary’s, bank account?



    No longer toxic me hole

    My brother, Fr.Ted, had a similar problem one time.........
    RIP Dermot.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,798 ✭✭✭goose2005


    There are, in my view, two irelands. It is not easy to define them but there are certain characteristics that are generally relevant:

    Rural/urban
    Parochial/metropolitan
    Tribal/citizen
    Self interested / want the country as a whole to do well.

    There are lots of cross overs and urban people can be just as parochial and self interested as rural people.

    However, among the latter types FF are completely toxic and will never return to normality. On the other hand, among the hard core parish pumpers, FF did nothing wrong. This is why dublin has no sitting FF TDs but, as the parish pumpers and me feniers grow in dominance again, I suspect a few FF TDs will get through.

    But for approximately 20% of Irish people, mostly older and mostly from outside dublin, they would sooner sacrifice their young than vote for someone other than FF.

    So Martins message is really for those people who are closer to the latter group than the former, and the message is "at least hear us out". By the time of the next election, they will be saying "now that everything is forgiven, look how great we are".

    I say no.
    Also, a lot who would have voted FF in border/urban regions now vote SF. FF also get far fewer transfers than they used to.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,378 ✭✭✭BuilderPlumber


    Fr. Ned wrote: »
    If any of the FFailed TD's from the last 3 FFail governments run for election it would be impossible to even consider voting for them.
    They really are stupid if they think they can 'retire' with their pensions and stepping down payments and then come back 5 years later.
    Have they no shame?

    We are unblessed with some of the worst politicians ever in this country. I'm pretty sure a whole lot of these supposedly retired FF politicians will be back. The only reason they 'retired' was to save face. They had become so unpopular.

    You will see 'retirement' as an option for all currently unpopular politicians. Since the calibre of politician is so low across all parties, this will be all too common. They will thus make a comeback later when the tide turns to whatever party they belong to again.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,434 ✭✭✭✭For Forks Sake


    raymon wrote: »
    Indeed . We must also remember that most current Fianna Fail TDs and Senators were part of Foireann Bertie (Bertie's Team) in 2007. You will find it difficult to find the election literature now - most images have been deleted by Fianna Fail.

    Bertie's boys still look toxic to me - all of them.

    Here you go, lest we forget.

    mmartin07a1.jpg


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,378 ✭✭✭BuilderPlumber


    gandalf wrote: »
    I really hope the electorate remember it is Fianna Fail who shepherded us into this disaster and the fact that some of those who helped with the decisions (or was it inaction) are still around.

    The fact that FF have a man as their current leader that sat at the cabinet table for 14 years shows that they are certainly far from detoxified.

    What did Michael do at the cabinet table for those 14 years, was he an active participant in the decision making process or did he just sit there and "look pretty" smiling gormlessly at Bertie Ahern while he made a cuppa. Either way he is not fit to be a TD let alone consider himself an alternative leader of the next Government.

    As for alternatives Sinn Fein certainly are not one of them. They are shaping up nicely as a new FF showing their hypocrisy with the populist fantasy economics that they spout in opposition down here with the vicious cuts that they have enacted when they are actually in Government in Northern Ireland.

    Micheal Martin is anything but detoxified. He presided over years of corruption and inequality and was a member of a Bertie Ahern government that was the most corrupt in our history.

    The current government is overall poor (I rank them as equal to Brian Cowen lead FF and better than Bertie lead FF) and have only continued the elitism that Bertie Ahern introduced into Irish politics (in comparison to today, 1980s politics in Ireland looks surprisingly good! And that is something to say as that included Charlie Haughey!).

    As for alternatives: Enda Kenny/Eamon Gilmore v Micheal Martin. Overall, not much of a choice. SF I would not trust either. They have as said by you enacted the same old unfair cutbacks in government in Northern Ireland. They would do the same here.

    Ireland badly needs good, honest, kind politicians who care about their people. We deserve far more than Enda Kenny praising himself and grandstanding in speeches on TV. Some of the realities in Ireland since the current administration took power that should not even exist:

    -Unemployment is unacceptably high across all sectors. Government policy like amalgamating councils, VECs, hospitals, etc. and downscaling FAS have all resulted in the loss of countless ordinary jobs and NOT elitist jobs at the top. Sickening. And this government is far worse than FF and sell this as 'reform'.
    -The whole rural landscape has seemingly ground to a halt in many areas. Shops and pubs closing, post offices closing, shops and pubs often empty. This trend has worsened drastically since the current regime took office.
    -In a country with too much houses per head of population, there are still homeless people.
    -Emigration remains often the first choice of many, who do not even consider a future in Ireland. Australia's, USA's, UK's, etc. gain, Ireland's loss.
    -Politicians, top civil servants, top bankers, government consultants, Ryan Tubridy, etc. all remain overpaid and on obscene money while others remain lowly paid or unemployed.
    -Taxes have increased drastically, while services have often been diminished. There is no evidence to say where the money has been spent.
    -Crime has spiralled out of control in many areas with robberies a fact of life for many. Yet, our police force as cut back and remain unarmed.

    These are some of the problems that have worsened under the current regime and that have been developing for years. Yet, none of our politicians seem interested in solving any of these and making this country a caring and decent society. Kenny's FG v Martin's FF? 6 of 1, half dozen of the other. I can only see things get worse if either one is voted in in 2016. SF will only be FF mark 2.

    There is room for a new, moderate, caring, progressive party that sides with the people against elitism. That is something we don't have in Ireland. Idealism is much needed in Irish politics but out current leaders are talentless, dull, bought and paid for and ultimately untrustworthy. Anyone who fought and died for Ireland thinking that corruption was a British trait were fools. Would they have bothered if they could only see what we have now?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,774 ✭✭✭raymon


    Here you go, lest we forget.

    mmartin07a1.jpg

    Thanks for that For Forkes.

    Berties team have amnesia. These type of artefacts might help them remember .


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,378 ✭✭✭BuilderPlumber


    Here you go, lest we forget.

    mmartin07a1.jpg

    And to think that was a boast to be part of Bertie's team!


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